[golden_blunder]

We all fully understand that you don’t need that. Especially since the facts contradict what you believed you saw.
(It is impossible that he misplace every pass as soon as he gets pressed, considering he has so few misplaced passes)

I’m not seeing things if that’s what you’re insinuating.
I didn’t say he loses the ball, what he actually does is pass the ball quite often to a team mate who isn’t very far away, and quite often he gets his teammates in trouble then. Technically you’re right he doesn’t lose the ball.

 

[A-man]

I’m not seeing things if that’s what you’re insinuating.
I didn’t say he loses the ball, what he actually does is pass the ball quite often to a team mate who isn’t very far away, and quite often he gets his teammates in trouble then. Technically you’re right he doesn’t lose the ball.

No true. I was replying to another post and misread yours, my apologies.
But the reason why his team mates get in trouble, AWB/Fred, is because they are not the best on the ball in those situations. AWB has improved a lot but Fred seems to have gone the other way and now pretty much every team put their press on him.
Edit: I really don’t see short passing as a problem. The press will die out and we more often create something from quick short passing through the lines rather than a CB slowly transporting the ball.

 

[golden_blunder]

No true. I was replying to another post and misread yours, my apologies.
But the reason why his team mates get in trouble, AWB/Fred, is because they are not the best on the ball in those situations. AWB has improved a lot but Fred seems to have gone the other way and now pretty much every team put their press on him.

I actually think AWB is better on the ball but maybe not at passing long.
anyway just watch how many times he (Lindelof) does this compared to others

 

[A-man]

I actually think AWB is better on the ball but maybe not at passing long.
anyway just watch how many times he (Lindelof) does this compared to others

Compared to others in our team or in general?

I think I have watched them pretty close, but I’ll pay extra attention to it next game. Most likely going to be Axel and Victor in that game.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I’m not seeing things if that’s what you’re insinuating.
I didn’t say he loses the ball, what he actually does is pass the ball quite often to a team mate who isn’t very far away, and quite often he gets his teammates in trouble then. Technically you’re right he doesn’t lose the ball.

bingo! he's a stat dream as he doesn't take any responsibility.

I've seen him do it so many times, he slowly crab walks towards AWB pretending to want to pass forward, then gives him a 5 yard hospital pass and they end up getting boxed in and lose it.

Anyway, I think it's clear whatever happens Maguire needs a proper partner.

 

[golden_blunder]

I've seen him do it so many times, he slowly crab walks towards AWB pretending to want to pass forward, then gives him a 5 yard hospital pass and they end up getting boxed in and lose it.

That drives me bonkers

 

[Yagami]

We've all seen good centre backs here. We've all seen great. I, for the life of me, cannot understand how any United fan rates him. He's probably the weakest CB - both physically and mentally - we've had. Daley Blind was more imposing at CB and he was the human form of a stick. He makes me reminisce of the days with Silvestre at CB. Just...blargh

 

[criticalanalysis]

Excellent point and one that I’ve noticed too.
AWB often covers Lindelof’s man when a cross is coming in from our left hand side, to the detriment of leaving his own man open, and AWB will be the one to attempt to head the ball away too. It happens almost every game that it must be a coaching decision.

Defenders need to be dominant & assertive, they don’t need to be Vidic in terms of aggression but they need to be confident in their decision making. Every other player in our first XI backline is.
Lindelof isn’t. Bailly is too confident.

It’s not good enough for the level we want to be.

AWB does take some blame for sometimes being positionally suspect at times but yes it's good more people are noticing this. AWB is quite good at tucking in and getting into position at the back post; whether he does good in terms of being switch on is another thing. However, a lot of the time AWB drops so far back is because Lindelof is already backpeddling into his own penalty box. We ask our full backs/AWB to provide width and when we don't have possession, you need your centre backs being decisive in closing the space in the channels. Lindelof will happily shepherd the opposition player 30 yards into our half and in turn drag his own team mates too. It's astounding people call this 'smart' defending, when it's just a deferral of play picking the easiest, low risk option that actually becomes a net negative, as it then requires everyone else to unneccesarily get into position.

 

[Anders80]

I've seen him do it so many times, he slowly crab walks towards AWB pretending to want to pass forward, then gives him a 5 yard hospital pass and they end up getting boxed in and lose it.

Funny. This is the exact same thing Maguire does all the time and has been accused of in the past as well.

 

[Pickle85]

Funny. This is the exact same thing Maguire does all the time and has been accused of in the past as well.

Really? I always thought Maguire was pretty good driving forward and passing through the lines. He certainly doesn't shirk it imo.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't understand those defending Lindelof. He's clearly not at the level needed. Seems a lot of discussion over nothing but hope that theres w quality player in there whereas there isn't.

 

[criticalanalysis]

bingo! he's a stat dream as he doesn't take any responsibility.

I've seen him do it so many times, he slowly crab walks towards AWB pretending to want to pass forward, then gives him a 5 yard hospital pass and they end up getting boxed in and lose it.

Anyway, I think it's clear whatever happens Maguire needs a proper partner.

So freaking true ffs

I’m not seeing things if that’s what you’re insinuating.
I didn’t say he loses the ball, what he actually does is pass the ball quite often to a team mate who isn’t very far away, and quite often he gets his teammates in trouble then. Technically you’re right he doesn’t lose the ball.

Technically, Lindelof will have very good 'forward' passes and perhaps 'distances moved forward' stats but we all know the reason why. He is literally 5-10 yards behind everyone else so by default almost every pass is ahead of him; as others have pointed out though, 85% of those are square/'forward' passes into feet that advance bloody nowhere, which ultimately places the onus on AWB/Maguire to actually make the progressive pass/ball carrying.

Funny. This is the exact same thing Maguire does all the time and has been accused of in the past as well.

He's been accused of holding the ball too long or forcing passes but he's definitely not someone, who doesn't take responsibility. In fact it's almost the opposite, he feels the need to overdo it because we've had and still have problems playing out from the back. Most of that is down to coaching imo and of course Maguire as well as everyone else i.e individual issues but there's no doubt this is also because his Swedish centre back partner defers the majority of the time.

 

[A-man]

It’s funny that all Lindelof’s good stats are coincidental and now also his partner’s weaknesses are somehow the results of Lindelof doing something wrong as well. United would have been PL title winners before Christmas if Lindelof didn’t drag down AWB, Fred and the other ball handling geniuses to his level.

 

[Idxomer]

We've all seen good centre backs here. We've all seen great. I, for the life of me, cannot understand how any United fan rates him. He's probably the weakest CB - both physically and mentally - we've had. Daley Blind was more imposing at CB and he was the human form of a stick. He makes me reminisce of the days with Silvestre at CB. Just...blargh

Agree completely. He's the proof however average a player is, they'll always have their fair share of defenders.

 

[golden_blunder]

It’s funny that all Lindelof’s good stats are coincidental and now also his partner’s weaknesses are somehow the results of Lindelof doing something wrong as well. United would have been PL title winners before Christmas if Lindelof didn’t drag down AWB, Fred and the other ball handling geniuses to his level.

Now it’s not just me seeing his faults regularly

 

[A-man]

Now it’s not just me seeing his faults regularly

You said that he often make poor passes that leave his team mates in trouble, so much more than any of his team mates. Next game, would be nice if you could take notes of the time when he make all those passes because apparently I don’t see them. Goal 3 for Liverpool starts with Fred losing possession, do you mean that was because Lindelof’s pass was poor?

Could also take note of the time when he does the crab walk that seems to annoy you and your friends.

 

[golden_blunder]

You said that he often make poor passes that leave his team mates in trouble, so much more than any of his team mates. Next game, would be nice if you could take notes of the time when he make all those passes because apparently I don’t see them. Goal 3 for Liverpool starts with Fred losing possession, do you mean that was because Lindelof’s pass was poor?

Could also take note of the time when he does the crab walk that seems to annoy you and your friends.

Well the fact that I’m not the only one that has mentioned it means that he does it, so knock yourself out

 

[A-man]

Well the fact that I’m not the only one that has mentioned it means that he does it, so knock yourself out

There’s a lot of things being said on this forum, doesn’t make it true.
Tbh I’ve never heard before that AWB is superior with the ball and that Lindelof often, more often than anybody else, puts his team mates in trouble with his poor passing.

One question, all these passes that puts especially AWB in difficult situations. What happens? AWB dispossessed?


But seriously, take some notes next match a d I’ll have a look to understand what you mean.

 

[Halftrack]

Lindelöf has a higher rating than both Maguire and AWB on here. Not proof of anything, just an observation. Seemingly, the average Caf poster doesn't think he's as shit as he's made out to be in this thread.

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

Lindelof isn’t a bad passer of the ball, in fact he’s got at least 1 or 2 assists this season.
He does however also sometimes pass to team mates who aren’t in a great position to receive the ball, often referred to as the “hospital” pass.
He is rubbish at heading, is far too easily bullied off the ball in the box and isn’t quick enough to compensate for frequent poor positioning.
Definitely not a strong enough character to be a commanding centre half.
Only positive for me is that he’s rarely injured. Although he’s missed the odd game this season with his back, Utd have had previous seasons with Smalling, Jones, Rojo and most recently Bailly, where they’ve had lengthy spells in the treatment room.
Bottom line is: shouldn’t be a regular starter for Utd but could be regarded as decent short term cover on the bench.

 

[RuudTom83]

I think as a foursome, Maguire, Lindelof, McTom and Fred are not good enough to win the league or CL.

On paper adding Pogba into that mix for McTom helps, but United really need another CB and CM if they want to climb back to the top.

I think Lindelof has improved this season and earned his place in the team/squad. But it is a team still finishing without offering much of a challenge in the league.

 

[Foxbatt]

I think as a foursome, Maguire, Lindelof, McTom and Fred are not good enough to win the league or CL.

On paper adding Pogba into that mix for McTom helps, but United really need another CB and CM if they want to climb back to the top.

I think Lindelof has improved this season and earned his place in the team/squad. But it is a team still finishing without offering much of a challenge in the league.

I agree that we need to upgrade on him. But he is not the most urgent. It's our midfield now. We urgently need to upgrade McFred. If we do so the issue of the CBs won't be as bad as now

 

[Ekeke]

I agree that we need to upgrade on him. But he is not the most urgent. It's our midfield now. We urgently need to upgrade McFred. If we do so the issue of the CBs won't be as bad as now

If we had a CB we could trust we wouldnt feel the need to play 2 DMs. We could go back to 4-3-3

The CB problem causes the DM problem. Even if we had better DMs, we're still playing 2 DMs because we have a weak defender

 

[anant]

I don't think Lindelof is a top class CB, and we definitely need an upgrade in his position, but people on here are acting as if he's the biggest weakness in the side, which he clearly isn't.

I'd upgrade our DM position and RW position this summer, and then see what attributes our defence lacks and on that basis the new CB needs to be signed. Most CBs aren't fast, and they aren't expected to be fast as well. If we can sign a DM who can cover the lack of pace (remember during transitions, it's one of Fred/McT and the 2 CBs who mostly stay back for a possible counter), we're fine.

Yes, he is physically weak, but how many goals have we conceded because of this weakness this season - you can say WBA (but that was a foul), and I'm pretty sure there'd be a few more at the start of the season, but I'm more than certain it wouldn't be a huge number. As far as the Villa goal was concerned, if the DMs are losing the ball at that location, CBs cant be blamed as much.

 

[golden_blunder]

I’d say he’s one of the 2 main weaknesses in the side

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

I’d say he’s one of the 2 main weaknesses in the side

Indeed. CB and CDM are our main weaknesses. Would be foolish to spend a lot of our budget on Sancho.

 

[A-man]

Indeed. CB and CDM are our main weaknesses. Would be foolish to spend a lot of our budget on Sancho.

The first CB pair is not a problem. With them we’ve won 16 PL matches, 8 draws and 2 losses. Conceded less than 1 goal per game. The problem is now when Harry is injured there is no one to fill the gap. Exactly the same would happen if AWB was injured and we would play Williams. Or if Bruno was injured. Important players with very poor backups.

 

[golden_blunder]

The first CB pair is not a problem. With them we’ve won 16 PL matches, 8 draws and 2 losses. Conceded less than 1 goal per game. The problem is now when Harry is injured there is no one to fill the gap. Exactly the same would happen if AWB was injured and we would play Williams. Or if Bruno was injured. Important players with very poor backups.

You can keep saying that till you’re blue, Lindelof is a problem

 

[A-man]

You can keep saying that till you’re blue, Lindelof is a problem

16 wins, 8 draws (of which 6 clean sheets) and 2 losses (last one more than half year ago) when our first CBs play. Not really a problem.

 

[golden_blunder]

16 wins, 8 draws (of which 6 clean sheets) and 2 losses (last one more than half year ago) when our first CBs play. Not really a problem.

As I said

 

[A-man]

As I said

What you said makes no sense. When our first CB pair have played we’ve only lost points because of conceded goals in 4 matches this season.

1. Loss against Palace in the first match
2. Loss after Pogba gave away penalty vs Arsenal 6 months ago
3. Draw against WBA
4. Draw against Everton

 

[criticalanalysis]

The first CB pair is not a problem. With them we’ve won 16 PL matches, 8 draws and 2 losses. Conceded less than 1 goal per game. The problem is now when Harry is injured there is no one to fill the gap. Exactly the same would happen if AWB was injured and we would play Williams. Or if Bruno was injured. Important players with very poor backups.

Are you equating the wins and clean sheets entirely on Maguire and Lindelof now? Such a simplistic way and bias way of looking at things. Defence = down to the centre back pairing, attacking = everyone else but completely ignoring the massive roles of McFred, defensive shut down ability of your Shaws/AWBs and then the cautious way we play football by not trying to high press or stretch play. The defensive stats is completely down to all 11 players and the attacking is also all 11 players. From that you should judge on an individual who are the weakest links.

I'm sure we have equally very impressive stats when Fred plays and as much as I like him, are you going to defend Fred as 'not really a problem'?

As for the bolded bit, the point is that Lindelof should be the one good enough to 'fill the gap'. Now that Maguire is injured, it's highighting how massive the gulf in quality and ability is between them two. Is Lindeof better than Bailly/Tzuanbebe etc? Based on his form and virtue of just being available, yes he is. Is he a comparable replacement for Maguire or at his same level as a partner? No and nobody with a straight face can say he is of undeniable similar/equal impact.

If he is, then he needs to show in every game now until the end of the season that he is head and shoulders, the better defender marshalling our defence. Based on history though, the likely result is that he will play his game 'consistently' but never do anything stand out.

I’d say he’s one of the 2 main weaknesses in the side

Agree. I said it in another thread but if for example we could only have one elite player to choose from then in order of priority it would 1) Striker - e.g Haaland, 2) CB, 3) Right Winger then 4) DM.

Maguire and Marquinhnos/Varane (or similar quality) + Fred at the base is much stronger than
Maguire and Lindelof + Fabinho (or similar quality)

 

[A-man]

Are you equating the wins and clean sheets entirely on Maguire and Lindelof now? Such a simplistic way and bias way of looking at things. Defence = down to the centre back pairing, attacking = everyone else but completely ignoring the massive roles of McFred, defensive shut down ability of your Shaws/AWBs and then the cautious way we play football by not trying to high press or stretch play. The defensive stats is completely down to all 11 players and the attacking is also all 11 players. From that you should judge on an individual who are the weakest links.

I'm sure we have equally very impressive stats when Fred plays and as much as I like him, are you going to defend Fred as 'not really a problem'?

As for the bolded bit, the point is that Lindelof should be the one good enough to 'fill the gap'. Now that Maguire is injured, it's highighting how massive the gulf in quality and ability is between them two. Is Lindeof better than Bailly/Tzuanbebe etc? Based on his form and virtue of just being available, yes he is. Is he a comparable replacement for Maguire or at his same level as a partner? No and nobody with a straight face can say he is of undeniable similar/equal impact.

If he is, then he needs to show in every game now until the end of the season that he is head and shoulders, the better defender marshalling our defence. Based on history though, the likely result is that he will play his game 'consistently' but never do anything stand out.

Don’t put words in my mouth; I never wrote that our good results were because of them alone. If you read again you can see I wrote our first CB pair isn’t the problem.

If Maguire is injured Bailly is expected to fill in but he has a very poor run now and couldn’t. We saw the same when Harry had to play with Bailly when Lindelof was out and our defence were a chicken house vs Roma.

 

[golden_blunder]

What you said makes no sense. When our first CB pair have played we’ve only lost points because of conceded goals in 4 matches this season.

1. Loss against Palace in the first match
2. Loss after Pogba gave away penalty vs Arsenal 6 months ago
3. Draw against WBA
4. Draw against Everton

bruno

“We started well, we scored, we created more chances after that, but we conceded two goals from set-pieces and we have to work on that," he told MUTV.

"We’ve conceded too many goals from set-pieces this season and everyone is disappointed in the dressing room. We know we have to improve and do better and we have to do it in the next game because we want to secure second place.”

the fact that Lindelof can’t head the ball is a serious flaw in a CB, especially since Maguire isn’t there to bail him out

I expect it will be addressed in the summer and we won’t have to suffer this guy pretending for much longer

 

[arthurka]

Weak and takes no authority on the pitch. How utd fans who have seen some of the best in the business put up with this is just baffling.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Don’t put words in my mouth; I never wrote that our good results were because of them alone. If you read again you can see I wrote our first CB pair isn’t the problem.

If Maguire is injured Bailly is expected to fill in but he has a very poor run now and couldn’t. We saw the same when Harry had to play with Bailly when Lindelof was out and our defence were a chicken house vs Roma.

You're equating the stats down to the performance of the centres backs and justifying to say they are not an issue.

Maguire isn't a problem. Just because Lindelof performs 'well' with Maguire doesn't not make him a problem. I gave you the Fred example. Do our good results with Fred in the team mean 'he's not a problem'? Is our high goals tally (relative to other teams) reason to say 'our attackers are not a problem'?

Lindelof is a problem (behind a striker, in order of priority) because he should be able take Maguire's place/fill in the gaps as the next dominant centre back. Nothing in his game or history suggests he is going to do this.

Bailly was poor as much as Lindelof was poor in the Liverpool game. Are Bailly and Lindelof (the supposedly superior defender with great defensive history, experience and stats) equally poor then?

 

[A-man]

bruno

“We started well, we scored, we created more chances after that, but we conceded two goals from set-pieces and we have to work on that," he told MUTV.

"We’ve conceded too many goals from set-pieces this season and everyone is disappointed in the dressing room. We know we have to improve and do better and we have to do it in the next game because we want to secure second place.”

the fact that Lindelof can’t head the ball is a serious flaw in a CB, especially since Maguire isn’t there to bail him out

I expect it will be addressed in the summer and we won’t have to suffer this guy pretending for much longer

Everybody knows we are poor at setpieces when the whole team defends. Doesn’t make a big difference with or without Maguire really, as it’s been a problem the whole season and also last season. But as explained the first CB pair is not a problem, it’s the backup.Anyway, we’ll see if Ole has the same opinion as me or you. I see point discussing this any more, doesn’t really add anything for me or anyone else.

 

[A-man]

You're equating the stats down to the performance of the centres backs and justifying to say they are not an issue.

Maguire isn't a problem. Just because Lindelof performs 'well' with Maguire doesn't not make him a problem. I gave you the Fred example. Do our good results with Fred in the team mean 'he's not a problem'? Is our high goals tally (relative to other teams) reason to say 'our attackers are not a problem'?

Lindelof is a problem (behind a striker, in order of priority) because he should be able take Maguire's place/fill in the gaps as the next dominant centre back. Nothing in his game or history suggests he is going to do this.

Bailly was poor as much as Lindelof was poor in the Liverpool game. Are Bailly and Lindelof (the supposedly superior defender with great defensive history, experience and stats) equally poor then?

I think you have to wait and see if Lindelof can step up or not. One game, totally meaningless from a league perspective and where the whole team played below normal standard is not enough to draw all those conclusions. Maguire couldn’t keep it together with Bailly vs Roma. But that’s also just one game even though the common denominator seems to be Bailly.

 

[Leftback99]

His best attribute is his ability to stay fit. It's an underrated quality that has allowed us to build a settled back 4. But that's it, that's all he brings of any real use.

 

[Vidyoyo]

His best attribute is his ability to stay fit. It's an underrated quality that has allowed us to build a settled back 4. But that's it, that's all he brings of any real use.

What about his superlative backtracking? There's not many finer.