I've not talked about Wan Bissaka once. I'm not saying he shouldn't have done better, I'm saying it's very poor from Lindelof. In a thread about Lindelof.
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I've not talked about Wan Bissaka once. I'm not saying he shouldn't have done better, I'm saying it's very poor from Lindelof. In a thread about Lindelof.
He volleyed it in. AWB could've been 8ft tall and it wouldn't have mattered. He failed to do the most basic of jobs. Christ, how many times did we see Neville deal with a striker twice his size? AWB is over six foot by the way. When players are pulled out of position, you have to readjust. You have to accept a less than ideal situation. Fullbacks tuck in to cover for CBs. DMs step in for fullbacks. It's a team game. If Maguire wasn't out of position then Lindelof could've marked him. But he wasn't. So instead of having a 6 foot defender do nothing defensively, while Lindelof tries to do the job of both CBs, AWB tucks in to help out.
Great defense!Well you suggested that AWB shouldn’t have been left marking him (calling it a mismatch) so you kinda did didn’t you.
The facts are that Lindelof wasn’t in the right position so AWB should have dealt with him.
Our centre backs are busy. I'm sure marauding, bare chested Rojo is up to something aswell.
Captain material. And I really do think so
Rumor is that he held his arms around his back before tackling the perpetrator.
He understood Ole's instructions to work on defense too literally.
You are so, very, very, very wrong about Neville dealing with strikers on a ball that was between him and the last CB. I love Gary Neville as a player, but you need to watch the old games again if you think he did.
No more off-topic posts about his heroics please, this is just for performance discussion. Thanks.
I predict another season of him doing ok/well for the most part but making odd mistakes here and there and getting slaughtered by his detractors (... and sometimes rightly so).
You could not be more wrong. If he was playing now it would basically be a meme at this point. Neville had narrowed it down to a fine art by the end. Tucking beneath the striker and putting him off balance as he jumped.
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Lindelof proves he defends better than Maguire even on vacation by chasing a guy who tried to steal a lady's bag, then tackled him to the ground and waiting for the police to arrive and become a hero. Better defense than that of Maguire in Greece ...
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De Gea is woeful at crosses which is why we spent so much on Maguire. He’s our cross collector so to speak.
It would make Lindelof and Maguires jobs a lot easier if we had a dominant GK like Nick Pope. But equally you lose all the other outstanding features.
Spot on. DDG is one of the worst statistically for coming for crosses and even more so, isn't very vocal equally.
Maguire was defending his sis and possibly the reputation of Manchester United. Lindelof was protecting some old lady's handbag.Lindelof proves he defends better than Maguire even on vacation by chasing a guy who tried to steal a lady's bag, then tackled him to the ground and waiting for the police to arrive and become a hero. Better defense than that of Maguire in Greece ...
I'm a vocal non-fan of Lindelof when I can be asked as it's quite tiresome debating against people, who genuinely believe he's a good defender.
Anyways, even in the previous thread I said I would lay more blame on AWB on the 2nd goal so I don't let my judgement turn into complete bias. However, I'm interested in your take on the first goal when he had to cover the player on the right byline?
Forget the passage of play before and after that. For me, that was a typical Lindelof level of engagement/defending. Covers the space with little to no pressure on the player, who had all the time in the world to lay off a relatively straight forward and progressive/dangerous pass.
I rated his performance against Leicester where he can be and show dominant qualities but it's just too far and inbetween. He's a smart zonal player, who may have good footballing ability but it means little when he doesn't have the verve to show it consistently on his own terms. That being important because I'm not saying he has to be blood and thunder. Blind had half the physical qualities but twice the technique and bravery to (zonally) defend against players who towered over him or had pace to spin away but he played football on his own terms.
I find it bewildering how fans can rate such a distinctly average player, who rarely plays above a 6/10. I said it in the previous thread that he's not unqiue in player threads (e.g De Gea, Pogba, Maguire, Shaw, Matic, Fred etc etc) where the ratings are at wildly both ends of the spectrum but most of those players have at least shown a consistent high level or peak dominances performances. Lindelof though? The most he has shown is being fit and not really shining or sticking out for poor mistakes, which is fine and should be appreciated to an extent.
It's fine to prefer or like a player but you've to call a spade a spade. To act like he's a very good player and is performing 'well'? Pft. He's part of the back 5 that has statistically been 'solid' in terms of goals conceded but his influence and ability is easily the weakest link. AWB, Maguire and Shaw all have had their fair share of mistakes and inconsistencies but have shown regular high interactions and levels of play where they can dominate and shut down their opposition/area. Lindelof is a foil, a placeholder and simply another body which again deserves some merit but nothing less and nothing more.
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It just reinforces my view that the back five don’t complement each other. Only having one of your goalkeeper and two centre backs any good in the air is a problem. Having two slow centre backs with a keeper who is slow to come off his line is worse. I’m not sure what De Gea is outstanding at any more to be honest, but his weaknesses are exacerbated by the players around him.
The centre back needs to deal with his man, what happens after that once he doesn't is totally irrelevant to that fact. Notice I'm also not talking about Maguire being out of position in a Victor Lindelof thread. It's almost like it's possible that the entire defence did a bad job on that goal but there isn't an entire defence performance thread to discuss it in.
This right here is how I feel about Lindelof as well.
Exactly my thoughts. Has no real standout quality.
I both agree and disagree.
He is often covering and following instead of tackling in those situations. Both tackling and following have their places and it is up to the defender to judge every situation. If you tackle you rarely win the ball but you stop the attack at the risk of a free kick or yourself being dribbled.
If you don’t tackle you don’t fully stop the attack but you slow down and delay until the rest of the defence are back. What I agree with you is that I want to see the aggressive side more often from Lindelof.
He often covers behind AWB. I don’t agree that he often would allow the attacker to undisturbed being able to hit a good pass. I would say that Lindelof is very good at follow the attacker closely and in often forces the attacker to move wider or hit a pass backwards.
Yes, he is a “passive defender”, but he is good at “passive defending”.
To take the next step in his development he should be better at switching between aggressive and passive defending. Like he did against Leicester which was probably his best game this season.
Chances often happen when the CB is out of position. This is how PSG lost the CL final when Thiago Silva misjudged the situation, left his space and left the FB(?) alone to fight in the air with 2 players.
Not just looking at this situation, but more generally speaking, the CBs have to cover a lot of space in today’s football. The full backs are far up and sometimes the other CB has moved up or gone wide. In this more fluid football players will often be “out of position”, and one cannot just hide behind one’s role. It’s vital that the CBs defend along the sidelines, and that the FBs do some defending in the centre at some occasions.
Great, so go and talk about Wan Bissaka in his performance thread. I am talking about the poor decision of Lindelof to mark an imaginary near post run when Sevilla's only forward in the box is not at the near post and Lindelof can't see where he is.
I’m not talking about AWB, I’m talking about the bigger picture where players have to work as a unit. CBs are often out of the traditional ideal position.
If we move to the case where you seem stuck, I think it is quite common to cover first first post, especially if you see that there is a fellow defender right next to the attacker. It was poorly executed but the decision was not necessarily wrong.
Who made that imaginary near post run in a near identical situation just a week later. Having seen a goal scored by the same team by the same player, from the same crossing position, I cannot fathom how somehow can genuinely watch that goal and not appreciate the enormous importance of having a player in a position to cut out that cross, particularly when we had a SPARE 6ft+ defender already touch tight to the striker.
He never once even looked at De Jong. It was trash.
Yes the decision was not wrong but the execution. But he might have been fooled by the curve the ball took after deflection, I don’t know.
I can understand people who are disappointed he didn’t reach the ball etc but not for the decision. If the attacker had run around him everybody would go whining that he didn’t beat him to the ball, that it was Giroud all over again etc.
He looked at him twice, the last look was less than a second before the cross.
3 instances of Neville being beaten in the air? Well then, you must be right. Here's a video containing 3 goals from Neville. It must've been a prolific goalscorer too.
What’s the relevance of Neville in the lindelof thread?
From what I gather.. making 'comparisons with AWB' debate so he'll take the blame away from Lindelof for the Sevilla goal. Maybe.
The only thing if relevance in that scenario is that Neville played with world class defenders, AWB does not
He asked about Neville. It's part of the conversation.
I still don’t see the relevance
He doesn't lack pace and can be decently quick in short sprints when needed
He needs to be a bit more aggressive. I feel he could be a DM.
He needs to be a bit more aggressive. I feel he could be a DM.
He just caused a penalty vs France by pushing Martial
Took Martial 10 minutes to clown him, what a surprise
He just caused a penalty vs France by pushing Martial
OK! I have been very critical about Viggo but he’s much better with his NT then with United. Huge difference.
Against France he hold his ground against Giroud, Mbappe and Griezmann. The first goal was more luck and a GK mistake.
Victor look much more secured and plays with much more accuracy with Sweden than with United. His body language is more relaxed and you can see more of his self confidence when he deal with difficult situations. His skills is more visible and he look more matured when he is trusted by his supporters.
Martial didn’t “clown” him, in fact the penalty was more 50/50 but that doesn’t matter.
Btw Martial was the opposite. Much better with United then with France. Unsecured, shy and often running without purpose when playing with his NT
I watched the game, martial played 10 minutes and they hardly got him the ball. The one time he did he forced a penalty. Nice joke!
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