Not really. We mark zonally and the area he was covering had no threat. He was where you'd expect.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Clean sheets
- 19
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
Not really. We mark zonally and the area he was covering had no threat. He was where you'd expect.
We barely conceded a single chance, and the goal was certainly not his mistake. It's the usual overreactions on here.
Our issue is we don't concede many chances but when we do it does often seem to lead to a goal.
Most teams don't aim to create multiple chances against us. They aim for one or two goals, and then sit back.
Unfortunately, we always seem to allow them to score.
These things happen. I would have been annoyed if he scored an owngoal trying to swing with the wrong foot and slicing it in (like weve seen some of our defenders do in previous years).
If you admit he was where you'd expected then you've just admitted he wasn't engaged in the play then. What's the point in being in a 'good position' in your eyes, if he's not there to affect all potential possibilities of the ball going to him?
'Goalside' isn't bandied around as some Sunday league cliche, it's used because it's footballing basics. Especially for a defender.
Was it unlucky? Yes absolutely. Could he have done better? Yes absolutely. Was it typical Lindelof? Yes absolutely.
He's not 4/10 bad, just a 5-6 all around player with few good moments. When was the last time he shut down a striker or actually contributed (invididually) to keeping them quiet? He's a smart zonal player with weak physical and mental attributes that doesn't make up for his lack of proactive defending.
It was mentioned before but before the lead up to the goal from the corner and Shaw's poor clearance, it was Lindelof who passed it straight back to them.
He was ready to shepherd the ball out of play as that is where it was going until De Gea punched it onto him. Defenders do it all the time and he knew there was no one in his area. He was in the perfect position to block anyone thinking of running towards the flight of the ball. Whilst I agree there are things he needs to improve on, freak occurrences happen, his positioning was fine and you can't account for De Gea flicking the ball onto him.
With Lindelof it is normal thing. People look at every second of his game. Even when he saves the goal it is " why he didn't do something else".
Don't forget that Fred's been half decent too.....vultures are always circling some players.
Lindelof isn't ever going to be a top player for us IMO, he's simply too error prone. The own goal isn't solely his fault, but I think he could have done better, firstly with his positioning. Have a look at VL in this video at the back post
Quite why his starting position is there, and not on the post, i'm not really sure. If he is positioned better, then the OG doesn't happen, and I do think that after watching the above video, there's enough time for him to adjust his body so that the ball doesn't deflect off him towards the net. It might be a bit harsh but the whole scenario highlights the rashness of his decision making at times. He didn't give the corner away directly, but a few seconds before we needlessly gave the ball away ( I think it was Shaw with aright foot clearance) the ball came into the box and Lindelof - instead of clearing it - took a first touch that put us in immediate danger. He doesn't win aerial battles, he gives away stupid fouls, his distribution isn't anything to write home about.He needs some time on the bench now to allow for the development of Tuanzebe. The regulars in our defence this season have been De Gea, AWB, Lindelof and Maguire. We are on our worst run in terms of consecutive games conceding a goal since the 70s. Somethings gotta give back there, and I think it has to be Lindelof.
Quite why his starting position is there, and not on the post, i'm not really sure. If he is positioned better, then the OG doesn't happen, and I do think that after watching the above video, there's enough time for him to adjust his body so that the ball doesn't deflect off him towards the net. It might be a bit harsh but the whole scenario highlights the rashness of his decision making at times. He didn't give the corner away directly, but a few seconds before we needlessly gave the ball away ( I think it was Shaw with aright foot clearance) the ball came into the box and Lindelof - instead of clearing it - took a first touch that put us in immediate danger. He doesn't win aerial battles, he gives away stupid fouls, his distribution isn't anything to write home about.He needs some time on the bench now to allow for the development of Tuanzebe. The regulars in our defence this season have been De Gea, AWB, Lindelof and Maguire. We are on our worst run in terms of consecutive games conceding a goal since the 70s. Somethings gotta give back there, and I think it has to be Lindelof.
I'm not saying we should sell him as he can be a good squad option however he's definitely upgradeable. He played some good long passes yesterday and was unlucky for the goal however he's unconvincing.
I'm not too interested in the stats but just on the eye test he looks weak and never totally in control. Even some of simple passes on the floor led to dangerous Everton attacks.
Those saying he's playing better than Maguire are wrong as Harry always looks in control and plays with a level of confidence even when he makes a mistake or gets beaten.
Smalling or Victor do not which itself brings pressure on the whole team.
I'm not too interested in the stats but just on the eye test he looks weak and never totally in control. Even some of simple passes on the floor led to dangerous Everton attacks.
Those saying he's playing better than Maguire are wrong as Harry always looks in control and plays with a level of confidence even when he makes a mistake or gets beaten.
Smalling or Victor do not which itself brings pressure on the whole team.
Think he has done some good defending lately. Not going to blame him for that own goal, just unlucky.
I've decided to ignore his faults and focus on the positives. I do think he has the potential in him and will give him the benefit of the doubt until the end of the season. Unless he completely fecks me and my vote of confidence in him here.
I've decided to ignore his faults and focus on the positives. I do think he has the potential in him and will give him the benefit of the doubt until the end of the season. Unless he completely fecks me and my vote of confidence in him here.
wow. the number of people questioning him for the goal, beyong belief now. If we go through this thread, almost 1 in 2 goals conceded have been put down to him when there is nothing he can do..
Get a grip, back your players. If he is such a shit defender why aren't we conceding 10 chances a game.
On top of that, we blame our midfield for being poor, many say our LB is poor and Maguire is over rated and over priced?
We barely concede clear cut chances, the fact is that with our current no. 10 we seem to play with 10 men with the ball.
Get a grip, back your players. If he is such a shit defender why aren't we conceding 10 chances a game.
On top of that, we blame our midfield for being poor, many say our LB is poor and Maguire is over rated and over priced?
We barely concede clear cut chances, the fact is that with our current no. 10 we seem to play with 10 men with the ball.
So its lindes fault then? I guess he could face whatever direction and perhaps avoid being hit but cmon, thats just poor from DDG ( or the ref )
He has been the second best out of our back 5 this season, arguably. At the very least he is 3rd but he probably gets the most blame.
I think he has been pretty solid over the last matches, and really good against Tottenham and City. As the rest of the defence. Last game was not the best but ok, took an own goal to concede. Tuanzebe on the other hand, has not really looked like a contender for the starting XI, but will most likely play PL matches now when they need to rotate (Unless Ole chose to start Jones/Rojo instead but hopefully he gives the chance to Tuanzebe).
He's involved in nearly every weak goal we concede.
In what way? Nearly every goal, that would mean he has been involved in at least 8 out of the last 10 conceded goals. Here is a list of the last 10 conceded goals. IMO he has been involved in 3 of the last 10 conceded goals. That is involved, like the own goal. Doesn’t mean it was all his fault. It is of course up for debate, maybe you think he has been involved in more. But “nearly every” is very much exaggerating.
Last 10 conceded goals and who I would blame:
Bournemouth 1 goal- Lindelof, AWB
Brighton 1 goal- probably Maguire at least not Lindelof
Sheffield United 3 goals- 1st Jones, 2nd Pereira, Maguire, 3rd Lindelof involved
Aston Villa 2 goals- 1st amazing shot, 2nd don’t know whose fault but not Lindelof’s
Tottenham 1 goal- Fred, Young
City 1 goal- AWB, DDG, Maguire
Everton 1 goal- Lindelof DDG referee
Some are just goals where we couldn't do much about it. Where there have been mistakes or weak defending Lindelof is too often involved. Palace and Southampton two goals and points dropped because he is so weak in the air.
He's an ok defender and that's about it, people can't expect wonders. He lacks too much in many departments to ever be even close to world-class.
This is a good video to show his positioning. He's in the middle of the 6 yard box and when the ball comes in he is slowly moving towards his own goal, no surprise then that when the ball breaks to him it hits him and goes into his own goal.
If he gets himself goalside the ball still hits him but goes away from goal. It might still have led to a goal but theres a much better chance of dealing with the ball than if hes moving towards his own goal. Thats what the attacking team wants to do
From video @DVG7 posted above:
https://ibb.co/94GTT6v
He's watching the ball all the way.
Look there's no doubt DDG and the players at the near post (McTominay I think) are to blame as well but he's ball watching.
Flip it the other way, if it was a striker and instead of flicking it in for a goal, the ball checks his thigh and goes out for a goal kick, we would all be lamblasting them for having no awareness/reaction. No one here would be saying 'ah he didn't expect the ball, it's unlucky, so he couldn't score'.
Edit: haha @Ekeke got there a minute before me.
I agree that some goals are difficult to avoid, but I would say most goals have been weak or mistakes this season, and Lindelof have not been involved in any majority of those goals. It’s probably you who label the Lindelof goals as weak because of your opinion about him. I mean the goal against Southampton, is that really weak? A 2 meter tall Vestergaard given a free run to jump and head the ball? In that case I would say all conceded goals from headers are due to the defender being weak in the air. Otamendis goal was similar. AWB totally run over and then Maguire lost the header. Nobody would say that’s because Maguire is weak in the air.
This is turning into a really stupid thread. Victor is our RCB, he will be "involved" in most of the goals we concede. By damning preference of his position in the team.
He has been OK this season, he has not progressed as much I hoped he would, playing consistantly at his preferred RCB with a pure LCB in Maguire nxt to him. They should both be judged after this season is completed though. Its not that simple just to play in a new CB-partnership and epect it to work 100% at once.
It's weird that he seemed like surprised the ball fall into his body, when the flight of the ball didn't alter much or at all. It happened the 2nd time when it was almost another own goal.
He was "lucky" not to mark anyone, because usually the attacker always positioning and expecting the ball flight wouldn't change and ready to pounch it.
Of course he watches it, what would you expect him to do? A defender on a corner is mostly concerned with where the players around him are and positioning himself relative to them. The flight of the ball is secondary. If he moves closer to the goal he is too far away from the players he is marking. It's just a freak occurrence that nobody could do much about, and I'd say the same if it happened to a striker.
Still the worst CB that have ever regularly played for us for last 30 years. Not a single strong ability. People made some cool PR around him so he almost won a POTY, even though we had the worst defensice record in the history of PL. But why is Olé playing him is beyond me.
Can we cut hyperbolic shit like this?
I just had the worst cup of tea of my life. It was colder than Antarctica water and whiter than the snow. When I made it I bigged it up to myself of how much of a good cuppa it’s gonna be and sort this cold right out. Why I finished drinking it is beyond me.
Honestly the single biggest mistake in recorded human history.
That's the point. He was ball watching, a phrase many football fans used to basically say he was not reacting to the situation i.e getting goal side or having the awareness to be on his toes.
Facing his goal wasn't that bad of a position, if he was moving his feet but he was on his heels. Son in conclusion, he was in no position to affect anything as he was 1) facing the wrong side of the goal and 2) on his back foot.
A defender on a corner is to protect the goal, which means to position himself to react to the opposition and the ball. He did one but not the other. They are not mutually exclusive mate.
Look, again other players deserve blame but that doesn't absolve his. A ball not being won at the first try by a team mate is not a freak occurrence, it literally happens dozens of time all over the pitch. They are called 2nd balls and in this instance Lindelof didn't have the awareness for the 2nd ball.
Sorry but the bolded is wrong. The ball doesn't score itself. As a defender on a set piece your first priority is to stop the men you are marking. Look at any PL defence on a corner, half the players arent even looking in the direction of the ball until the last minute. What happened to Lindelof is the equivalent if a deflection.
What are you trying to say? That there were worse than him? Can you name them?
Jesus...
For a start i'd prefer him over Johnny Evans, Phil Jones, John O'Shea, Lauren Blanc, Marcos Rojo, David May, Henning Berg.
I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. I used your asinine post as an example, but my request for people to cut the hyperbolic shit was more general.
What you are describing is called 'man-marking'. You always get those cliche dumbed down 'arguments' from pundits about man-marking versus zonal but again they are not mutually exclusive. You stop the ball, whether that means marking the attacker or getting to the ball first.
Anyways, so now we've established that you believe Lindelof did his job by being in a 'good position' man marking absolutely nobody, whilst facing his goal, watching the entire flight of the ball and being on his heels.
You can give him benefit of the doubt all day long but deep down Lindelof will know that he could and should have done better than being in such a piss poor position and awkward angle.
What a complete moranic post . I'm guessing you just started watching football . He is miles better than Jones and Smalling Evans and May and many many more
I think the poster means in terms of defenders who established themselves as a first choice pick. I think of even just the centre backs still at the club both Smalling and Rojo have been clearly better during periods where they had the jersey.
I know what the poster meant ..
Rojo ? Seriously? That's a seriously mental comment . Rojo has never been good over any substained period for our club . There is a load of CB's alot worse than Lindalof over the past 30 years
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