I'm sure we had a good defensive record in Jose's first season.
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I'm sure we had a good defensive record in Jose's first season.
Not as good as that seasons. I disliked LVG's last season immensely but that was the only decent thing aside from the FA Cup I can say about it. Again, it can't be inspite of those two players can it? And it's not like our midfield back then was any better than it is now.
It’s pretty pointless to compare defensive records from seasons when our keeper goes from looking like a balon d’or contender - despite facing more shots per game than relegated teams - to looking like an almost constant weak link in our team.
I need to re-watch the goal, but I can't be bothered
Maguire from that pic looks better placed to take a couple of steps back and deal with it, but perhaps he stepped out and left it to Lindelof. In any case, Lindelof was hard done by I feel, Vestergaard is a very good defender and strong in the air, plus the cross was very very good. It's not really the same as how he dealt with Palace last week. Just unfortunate timing for Lindelof this mistake happened so quickly after that game.
I am really not sure what people wanted him to do? Follow Vestergaard? I would genuinely like to know what he should have done on that situation.
I think Ole will continue with Lindelof and Maguire as it has looked pretty good overall and as you say there are problems on other areas.
Nobody knows how good Tuanzebe is because he has never played week in week out at this level. It is more dissapointed people who find a scapegoat in Lindelof and want to replace him with whomever. As long as there is no big crisis in the central defence I think Ole will follow some kind of plan to ease him in.
We only conceded one goal more than Pep's City in that season, if memory serves correctly.
Edit: actually that was Jose's second season I think
I can’t speak for these “some people” but I don’t want change just for the sake of it, I want change because I don’t think Lindelof is good enough for us which should mean we surely need to move on to CB three, which is Axel.
In addition, to be clear, this is not based on a “couple of errors of late”. I have held this opinion of him since he fell apart against Huddersfield and for me, has often looked a bit too far out of his depth for United.
If you think he has a quality skill set, fair enough. I don’t see it. For me, he doesn’t have any stand out qualities that would elevate him amongst the best CBs out there. Maybe we’ve been spoilt over the years but his skill set leaves him well short of our previous best. That should be our benchmark.
For what it’s worth though, I’m starting to think Ole feels the same way as you rather than me but time will tell I guess....
Wait, so what's de Gea got to do with the quality of the centrebacks?
Vestergaard gave a better performance today than anything i've ever seen from Lindelof.
Whist hes looking dodgy, the goal is a weird one. Rashford was closer to the goal scorer than Lindelof as the ball went out from DDG punch. And then yeah, the goal happened. Lindelof should know where he is, but it kinda was a weird situation where there was completely no communication or lack of it (or somebody ignored somebody else)
What did people want Lindelof to do against Vestergaard...? How about his job? How about being a right pain in the a$$ by putting him off or getting a touch on the ball or clearing it....same as I was hoping for last week. Get the basics expected of a CB done please!
In relation to Tuanzebe, you’re right. Nobody knows how good he would be for United because he has never played in the Prem so won’t know if he’s better than Lindelof unless we do. What would be so terrible if we gave him even half of the chances that Lindelof has had though? Worst case scenario, he’s not even as good as Lindelof and we realise that both partners for Maguire aren’t particularly good and we have to add a CB to the ever growing list of players we need.
We are discussing defensive records, right? i.e. goals conceded. Do you need me to spell out the role the keeper has in this stat?
Defenders can go thru bad form too.
He's played in the Prem. Just not for many games. I'm 90% sure Tuanzebe started for us against Arsenal once against a pre-decline Sanchez.
Look at the photo and tell me exactly what his job is. Pic taken at the moment the cross is hit. What should he have done?
imgur.com/a/XBg7J49
I think it is better for Tuanzebe to be eased in. There is not really any defence crisis at United after conceding 1 goal earlier this afternoon. Defence even looked solid most of the match.
I was talking CB...thought he’d just played fullback but fair enough if so, I stand to be corrected!
As long as we don't have to deal with high ball, the CBs seem decent. But, once I saw long balls/crossing coming in, I had to hold my breath. Lindelof is pretty bad sometimes for a CB. There is no sugar coating about it. And, I am not sure if he can improve in that area to make a difference at this stage.
I am really surprised that Jose usually signed physical and athletic CBs who knows how to defend. Both CBs he signed are pretty much opposite of it in one way or another. Summed it up about all things going wrong at our club after Fergie.
I am really surprised that Jose usually signed physical and athletic CBs who knows how to defend. Both CBs he signed are pretty much opposite of it in one way or another. Summed it up about all things going wrong at our club after Fergie.
I’ve already said what I think his job is. His job should be clear to everybody. The picture isn’t great but even from that, I would question his positioning and awareness of what’s around him. He just should be doing better.
Anyway, Lindelof is obviously you’re cup of tea and that is fine but I’d like a stronger, quicker, more robust CB who isn’t a liability aerially. Like I’ve said previously, he is going to get targeted as the season goes on because he’s not got a presence and isn’t great in the air.
Not sure who’s saying there is a defensive crisis after conceding 1 goal either...probably nobody. It’s so hyperbolic on the Cafe at the moment. What I am saying is we need a stronger partner for Maguire as I’m just worried Lindelof is going to continue to be a weak link in that defence otherwise.
Actually this is where I also have a problem with the coaching. What is Pogba doing letting the CB goal side of him? To be honest once a decent ball is put in Lindelof has already lost the battle. Vestergaard was always going to win the header. Vestergaard is 6.6 while Lidenlof is 6.2.
You've clearly forgotten what Smalling looked like up against Kompany!
The likes of Troy Deeney will relish playing against Lindelof unless he learns how to cope with the aerial ball. That doesn't necessarily mean winning headers. I've seen Patrice Evra use his body to unsettle Andy Carroll on a cross. Lindelof just needs to wise up and learn to position himself when the ball is in the air. The goal is not to win tackles its to stop the opposition scoring. Its just as effective to back into someone so they can't get a clean header so it sails over the bar, as it is to slabhead it into the crowd. The lad just needs to get smarter with his defending.
Going into his third season here and it's an area we've known since day one is an issue. I wonder how long it'll actually take for the penny to drop?
Pretty irrelevant comment when we you look back at Blind' performance v Lukaku. There are ways and means of stopping a bigger player, otherwise Crouch would have broken the scoring records every season. Lindelof reacted way too slowly and tried to dodge responsibility for his area. If he's more proactive he prevents pretty much a free header. Guy has to somehow change his entire demeanor on the pitch, at times defending is a battle. I'm still not convinced he has it in him.
He should shave his head again. Looked so much more intimidating.
He's starting to become a real problem. Hopefully it's a downturn in form rather than a sign of his ability in a team playing this style. United play a high line and depend on the ball playing ability of the defenders.
He struggles on the ball and made one horrible mistake just before the goal when he gave the ball away and put multiple players out of the game. He lacks pace (which is a bigger issue with Maguire next to him) so is susceptible to an early ball over the top or when United turn the ball over. To top it all off, he is a huge weak link in the air. His lack of aerial ability has cost the team 4 points and a lot of momentum.
United's only significant investment this summer was in defence and with the lack of quality in midfield and attack, they need that defence to be rock solid to win the team points.
He was good last season so I expect Ole to keep faith in him but I would be surprised if Tuanzebe doesn't take his place in the near future. He's no better in the air but has more speed and is better on the ball. He just seems a better fit as a partner for Maguire.
He struggles on the ball and made one horrible mistake just before the goal when he gave the ball away and put multiple players out of the game. He lacks pace (which is a bigger issue with Maguire next to him) so is susceptible to an early ball over the top or when United turn the ball over. To top it all off, he is a huge weak link in the air. His lack of aerial ability has cost the team 4 points and a lot of momentum.
United's only significant investment this summer was in defence and with the lack of quality in midfield and attack, they need that defence to be rock solid to win the team points.
He was good last season so I expect Ole to keep faith in him but I would be surprised if Tuanzebe doesn't take his place in the near future. He's no better in the air but has more speed and is better on the ball. He just seems a better fit as a partner for Maguire.
That's it right there
Lindelof is terrible in the air and any high ball pumped up towards him is always a worry. I prefer Smalling over him and that's saying something, but at least Smalling could clear a ball and was rarely bettered in a 1v1 situation. It's not all about who is the better at distributing from the back. I'd rather a good defender with average distribution over what I'm seeing from Lindelof atm. He looks shaky every time he is required to defend, unless the ball is on the floor.
Lindelof is a good option as a backup CB. Nothing more.
Can't believe we got rid of Smalling becuase of this fellow. He's a decent CB who is pretty good on the floor but has glaring weaknesses in his ability to compete when physically challenged. I mean, has anybody ever been convinced that he can be physically dominant ? I'm afraid we jumped the gun again. 5 good games and Manchester United begin to adore you as the next great thing. Smalling should have been kept on account of being a better and more dominant CB, and at least the equal of Lindelof (who is better on the ball).
He's dreadful. Why people pretend he is good is a mystery.
No pace, No strength, can't win a header. He's cost us 4 points this season already. I've really lost patience of with Utd as a club now. I wish I wasn't a fan anymore but unfortunately It's not something you can turn off.
No pace, No strength, can't win a header. He's cost us 4 points this season already. I've really lost patience of with Utd as a club now. I wish I wasn't a fan anymore but unfortunately It's not something you can turn off.
Aerially he isn't good enough.
If we have 2 Maguires vestegaard doesn't score that.
If we have 2 Maguires vestegaard doesn't score that.
Why can't we say both Smalling and Lendelof are not good enough to start for this club? How many penalties would Mike give away with VAR around? We probably need another starting CB to partner Maguire.
Amazing how he's managed to build up a strong reputation after starring in probably our worst ever season from a defensive POV. Smalling and Jones led our defence in 17/18, carrying an awful Lindelof and playing 2536 and 1975 EPL minutes along the way. We conceded just 28 goals, keeping 18 cleansheets, and had one of the best defensive records in Europe, but the concensus was that Smalling and Jones were not good enough, perhaps, rightly so. One year later, Lindelof improves from awful to average, playing 2602 minutes, leading the defence in terms of minutes and conceding 54! goals along the way, and the consensus was that he's good enough and we should find him a partner and make him an automatic stater! Astonishing. He's benefitted simply from staying fit and not being Phil Jones or Chris Smalling. He is completely average, passive and incredibly reactive. He doesn't make too many distinct errors because he reacts late or simply shirks and avoids responsibility, but you're going to concede loads with seemingly no one to blame. He doesn't even have the deceit of looking flawless anymore.
Which is too much to ask. The reason every goal conceded is getting so much attention is because the attack is not good enough. This put even more pressure on the defense. Teams will test Man Utd defense more than city and liverpool because they dont fear uniteds attack. Its too much to expect to win every match 1-0 and defenders make no mistake. United managed one goal against southampton despite having 1 man extra for 20 mins. Thats not good enough
Yeah, he’s not improved a glaring weakness of his. Let’s give Axel a go now.
Even with the mistakes we haven't necessarily been bad defensively this season. Predictably the reactions on here will always be heavily biased towards our recent results. If we were more clinical going forward, would the same level of outrage still be there?
What's the point in saying that? You need 4 good centre backs. Both are fine to be among that. Especially Smalling. But you don't let go of one of the few good ones you have. Just like, in the context of what we had, Blind should never have been sold.
I totally agree with this. Vestergaard is the type of centre back we need, tall and strong. Lindelhof quite tall at 6ft 3in but doesn't seem to be able to jump well and is far too weak in tackle and needs to "dirty up" a bit. A more savvy player would have leant into Vestergaard to innocently push him away from the ball.
OGS has got to get tuanzebe into the team for a trial run and in the meantime lindelhof needs to muscle up,toughen up and learn to jump. Cruel to say this but he will be a far better player if he can improve in these things.
Yeah and The 6.6 guy has a running start to make a higher jump while Victor is practically doing a standing vertical jump. Anybody who says Smalling can win that header has never been to a gym in their entire life. Only the LeBron James of the world is going to beat him to the ball. Rashford loosing track out of him is the bigger issue, but nobody is talking about that because it doesn't fit their agenda. Rashford shields or makes some physical contact, he doesn't get there.
You don't need to beat him to the ball. You just need to put him off enough to stop him getting a clean contact. The fact that Lindelof doesn't even touch the lad is shocking. If he steps backwards and lets his back hit the player as he jumps then maybe the goal doesn't happen. We see it every week. How often do defenders use their bodies to stop players getting good contact? If he tries to head the ball in the process its never a penalty. There was no need for him to attack the ball. It was a lack of judgement. Literally just jump into the guy and make it look like a 50/50.
Yes I like him. I think the defence look quite good so far and it has been much more calm than before. United has not lost points because of poor defence but because of the inability to score goals imo. That's why I don't see the point of changing CB as a reaction to something.
I think he should get meaner in the air and he could have got closer to Vestergaard. But at the same time, a 199 cm tall CB who got a fully free run, and also came from behind so he could push down Lindelof with his arm, I think the best player to stop that would have been to stop the run.
imgur.com/a/RLvuCYP
I agree but unfortunately, that's where the club is at right now. Years of poor recruitment has left the squad terribly short of quality in every area. They've tried to solve the defence this summer and build on a solid base for this season but they're making too many mistakes.
United have generally controlled huge chunks of the games against Wolves, Palace and Southampton. It's terrible defensive mistakes from rare opposition attacks (and one Neves screamer) that has cost them.
It is a lot of pressure but the first choice back 4 cost just under £200m. That is a huge investment.
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