Anybody who has seen the matches since Ole came in, has seen him hit some long balls with an accuracy I haven’t seen with any of the other CBs. They are few and he should do it more but it is not entirely up to him, it is also about tactics and about where his team mates are. But you can definitely see he has good accuracy. That’s why watching matches is superior to watching stats. Like yesterday, Smalling looked better in the air than Lindelof, yet the stats showed that Lindelof won 7 and Smalling only 3 aerials.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 40
- Clean sheets
- 8
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
Just plain wrong. Recently he has been playing out of position and that has really hurt his distribution.
Our passing from the back depends a lot from our fullbacks and midfielders movement. Pogba is non existent when our defenders have the ball(could be tactical since he doesn't come deep for the ball), and Matic is hardly moving, yesterday we only had Fred available. Ashley Young is poor with the ball and the only option is basically Shaw.
Why do these types of posts only seem to occur when we lose? I wish some grew a set and post them when he's playing well as this is about his ability?
Was uncharacteristically sloppy/hesitant yesterday. Oh well, so we learn and develop.
I felt like the team had a bit of dropped form. Everyone looked a bit unfocused and the movement was lacking. This will show when defenders are trying to cut through with passes. When there is no one willing to make an effort to start the build up then the options to make a good pass will be reduced. To me, Matic and Pogba looked really stale and only Fred was moving around with energy.
I actually do watch games, and while everyone bang on about his class ball playing ability, I don't always feel the same way after games. I know I would obviously be prone to confirmation bias, so I checked facts instead and saw the same thing.
So how is it plain wrong?
He really struggled with the wind in the first half. Was so hesitant to attack the ball because he didn't trust where it was going to be, and seemed to suffer more than Smalling because he isn't as physically imposing to compensate, while both Lacazette and Aubameyang are very strong. Could admittedly do with a rest too.
Because we have a subset of posters who are desperate to knock down certain players in an effort to make their favourites look better. A bad game is the perfect excuse to go to town.
Lindelof had a bad day, it happens, and it didn't help that the midfield was being pulled all over the park. We had massive gaps which meant any half decent Arsenal pass was putting runners directly through to our centre backs.
One bad game after 4 months of excellent and consistent performances. Not worried. It does however show the need for another top centreback. If Lindelof or Smalling gets injured or loses form, we may have issues...
For his reputation, it does seem a bit subtle, doesn't it? But I don't think he has received that much props for his ball-playing since coming into form, it has mostly been due to his improved defensive performances. On my part, I've been happy the times he has contributed offensively and it shows he has something but I don't think he is a ball-playing CB doing amazing things on the ball. He needs to be solid defensively for those qualities to even be taken into consideration as valuable attributes. Yesterday he struggled defensively and it effected his calmness on the ball. He made worse decisions, had less accuracy with his passes, loss of composure under pressure etc.. and while that is forgiven it does tell you something about what comes first when evaluating the attributes of a CB.
Agree.
He has very, very occasionally played a nice ball along the floor into midfield. Maybe once every 3 or 4 games. Compare that to someone like Blind or one of the well known ball playing CBs and they are consistently spreading the ball each game.
Lindelof got better at defending, after being weak at it. He's now a pretty solid defender who is comfortable on the ball.
He looked much much better when Ole made a change and had him and Smalling change (moving Lindelof to the centre).
The one thing we know though, is that he wont (or shouldnt) be dropped after a game like that. With the last manager, he would probably be out of the team for about 3 months with no chance to bounceback.
The one thing we know though, is that he wont (or shouldnt) be dropped after a game like that. With the last manager, he would probably be out of the team for about 3 months with no chance to bounceback.
His defending has improved a lot lately and he is being rightly lauded for that, but he does have a reputation as a ball-playing CB even before he joined us, much more so than our other CBs at least who are mostly derided for their 'incompetency' and '5-yard passes' when they have the ball. The point is that he is relatively ordinary on the ball and doesn't deserve such reputation. Even if he does, then he doesn't show it. He's got composure and moves the ball with grace, but that's it.
Seems to be some misunderstanding of what a ball playing centre back actually means here. Lots of talk of pass completion stats and long ball accuracy, but that's not what it means to be a ball playing CB, or its at most only a small part of it.
Watch Lindelof's highlights from yesterday (hes the only defender who seems to have had theirs posted), bearing in mind he had a poor game and wasn't anywhere near himself. Specifically the four moments below.
00:10
Smalling is the easy option, but that would have Aubameyang on him in seconds. He takes two pressing attackers out of the game with a 'simple' pass through the Arsenal forward line.
00:58
The easy pass is to Lindelof, but it puts him under pressure as soon as he receives it. He manages to get it to Young but usually that would result in a long ball or a pass back to De Gea aka the same thing. The better option would have been cross field to Shaw. You can see Matic glance and not offer himself to keep the gap open.
01:31
When he receives it there isn't much on other than putting Shaw under pressure or hoofing it. Instead he runs forward to draw some markers away and gives the ball to Shaw in a much easier situation.
02:47
Bricks it a bit here after making a mess in the build up and gives Smalling an awkward ball to get out of. He had plenty of time and could have taken it forward past the Arsenal player on the floor, or turned and passed it to Young.
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There are four short, simple passes there that all reached their target and all look identical stat wise, but two of them put us under unnecessary pressure and two show how a ball playing CB actually makes a difference.
It's nothing to do with how many accurate long balls you play, or how long your average pass length is, or what the pass completion percentage is. It's being able to take a number of opposing players out of contention and allow us to face the opposition and start an attack from higher up the pitch. That might mean a 70 yard cross field long ball, or it might be a 5 yard pass between two charging attackers.
Watch Lindelof's highlights from yesterday (hes the only defender who seems to have had theirs posted), bearing in mind he had a poor game and wasn't anywhere near himself. Specifically the four moments below.
00:10
Smalling is the easy option, but that would have Aubameyang on him in seconds. He takes two pressing attackers out of the game with a 'simple' pass through the Arsenal forward line.
00:58
The easy pass is to Lindelof, but it puts him under pressure as soon as he receives it. He manages to get it to Young but usually that would result in a long ball or a pass back to De Gea aka the same thing. The better option would have been cross field to Shaw. You can see Matic glance and not offer himself to keep the gap open.
01:31
When he receives it there isn't much on other than putting Shaw under pressure or hoofing it. Instead he runs forward to draw some markers away and gives the ball to Shaw in a much easier situation.
02:47
Bricks it a bit here after making a mess in the build up and gives Smalling an awkward ball to get out of. He had plenty of time and could have taken it forward past the Arsenal player on the floor, or turned and passed it to Young.
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There are four short, simple passes there that all reached their target and all look identical stat wise, but two of them put us under unnecessary pressure and two show how a ball playing CB actually makes a difference.
It's nothing to do with how many accurate long balls you play, or how long your average pass length is, or what the pass completion percentage is. It's being able to take a number of opposing players out of contention and allow us to face the opposition and start an attack from higher up the pitch. That might mean a 70 yard cross field long ball, or it might be a 5 yard pass between two charging attackers.
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For being his worst game this season, it was pretty decent. Could actually see that he has become much more dominant in the air then three four months ago. He failed more passes than normal, but he had still the best percentage of succesful passes in the team.
He got fooled once by Lacazette in the first half and that can happen, but his problem last match was poor timing in some situations, for example,when the ball bounced over his head. That is a mistake that could have cost a goal.
To be fair I gave him huge stick for his terrible heading yesterday but I can't blame him for passing sideways. Our midfield looked terrified to show for the ball, it's so fecking frustrating and happens so often.
If you've a good enough player to take the ball in space and turn you pretty much beat the high press straight away.
It wasn't a bad, bad game, of the sort he had before, but his aerial prowess is execrable. Completely lost when a ball bounces in front of him or at mid level and has to chest it or head it.
That moment of him letting the ball bounced over his head was really schoolboy stuff. Really poor anticipation, should never have happen to a top level defender in the Prem for me
That was nowhere near his worst game of the season. His performances at the start with Bailly were shocking
He actually played only two games with Bailly at the start of the season. They weren't too bad against Leicester iirc, so you mean against Brighton right? I remember Bailly dropping an atrocious performance in that game.
Reminiscent of the error he made on his EPL debut against Huddersfield.
That was a miscommunication with Fred. Lindelof was expecting to drop with Aubameyang and let Fred challenge for the ball. When he realised Fred wasn't going to get it he tried to step forward and completely misread it. You could see them talking about it afterwards.
I'm probably also thinking of the friendly with Bayern where they also played together. That and Brighton
I expected Arsenal to score after that. It was very amateurish indeed.
Personally I think Lindelof was the best player pre Ole, with the exception of DDG.For some people the season only begun when Ole took over
Jesus christ. De Gea wasnt that good either
Martial was clearly our shining light earlier in the season
He had a run of good matches in Oct-Nov, but wouldn’t call him United’s best player.
Yep, Martial easily. He had that purple patch where he was scoring like a goal every game. Our defence and GK were shipping goals like there was no tomorrow. I would argue Shaw has been the most consistent though.
Martial? He was on a run to break a goalscoring record for us. From left wing
Yes he’s been good, think he has scored 9 EPL goals and 1 CL, maybe also one or two in the domestic cups. Wouldn’t call it goalscoring record but good.
No I mean he was going for a record of scoring in 6 consecutive games for us, which had only been done by Ruud and Ronaldo or something. Anyway in the 6th game he failed so he ended with 5.
Aha, got it. Yes he was incredible during those matches, but personally I don’t think he’s been great over the season. Good but not great. But it’s a personal opinion.
I don't want to be one of those guys but I've not convinced he has the potential to become a top tier defender. And it's not because of this game.
Even in the team's recent good form, I don't see anything really 'special'. He has some very dominant performances where he has been very aggressive from the get go but I don't think he has the physical or mental qualities to go 'beast' mode (as Rio would say) regularly enough.
I'm probably simplifying things but with Smalling, you can say he has surpreme physical qualities. Then I look at Blind and he had just an unwaivering belief in his passing and intelligence (to his detriment at times also).
Of course those two weren't perfect but they have that one 'elite'/single minded ability. With Lindelof I just get a sense of solid 7/10 peak at best, which is to say that's on par with Smalling and Blind.
It's an unfair assessment because we've yet to play in a really structured set up (that would suit most of our players tbh) but our low block/conceding possession tactics has both helped him and highlighted some issues imo.
Perhaps it's just the fatigue from Paris. In any case I will still have a lot of patience for him (and all other players) with OGS at the helm.
Even in the team's recent good form, I don't see anything really 'special'. He has some very dominant performances where he has been very aggressive from the get go but I don't think he has the physical or mental qualities to go 'beast' mode (as Rio would say) regularly enough.
I'm probably simplifying things but with Smalling, you can say he has surpreme physical qualities. Then I look at Blind and he had just an unwaivering belief in his passing and intelligence (to his detriment at times also).
Of course those two weren't perfect but they have that one 'elite'/single minded ability. With Lindelof I just get a sense of solid 7/10 peak at best, which is to say that's on par with Smalling and Blind.
It's an unfair assessment because we've yet to play in a really structured set up (that would suit most of our players tbh) but our low block/conceding possession tactics has both helped him and highlighted some issues imo.
Perhaps it's just the fatigue from Paris. In any case I will still have a lot of patience for him (and all other players) with OGS at the helm.
Honestly, I feel like the majority of his performances in recent months have been above 7/10, so I'm definitely gonna disagree with you on that. Before yesterday, he was almost faultless for a couple of months, was brilliant on the ball and even his passing started to become more adventurous.
Lacazette obviously did him one, but otherwise he's been delivering top, top performances for a while now. Not just 7/10.
Why? Because I dont see him as a top class centre back? He still looks weak in certain areas to me in the good games he has played, that is just opinion which we can all have different ones on.
If we state the facts he has been embarassingly bad most of his first season, very average at best most of this and good most of the games under Ole, yet in terms of superb he still hasnt reached anywhere near double figures in his time here appearance wise......so not being convinced is hardly embarrassing
No, because you called him an average centre back. He and Shaw have been the main players in what has been the best defense in the league since Ole took over. Yet you wait for his first poor performance in about 5 months to slate him? Why haven't you pointed out his averageness before? Because you're talking total tripe, as a result, embarrassing yourself.
Oh definitely. It holds true in more than one direction though.
Nothing is ever guaranteed in football, but I always thought it likely that Victor would come good at United on the strength of seeing his consistently classy performances with Sweden. One bad game against Arsenal (well explained in your paragraph below) doesn’t change that.
I also thought that some of his defenders on here overcompensated for the stick he was getting by bigging up his ability on the ball. Sure he’s capable of the occasionally spectacular pass, but he’s nowhere near as consistent as Blind in this respect.
Say it again, why do people only say this type of horseshite when we lose? I get the critique of individual game performances but this stuff is about his ability in general. If people believe that, why arent they posting this when he plays well and we win? His ability would still not be good enough? The people that right this shite never liked him and are always waiting behind their keyboards to remind us of what they originally said that he wasn't.
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