This is also very strange to me. Loads of United fans who praise him day in and day out instead of supporting their own players. Decent player but nothing spectacular. Had poor first half yesterday.
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How many times have forwards got away from Rio and Vidic? Plenty of times. Even Bellamy made a mug of Rio. Defenders will get beaten by strikers in every game. That is why there is a goal keeper.
It’s the same when Ronaldo scores that amazing goal in CL. People claiming that that would never had happen to world class players like Chiellini, when fact is Ronaldo scored a hat trick against Juve in CL last year. We can’t demand zero mistakes from our CB, especially not after the midfield collapsed like yesterday and the opponents come attacking wave after wave.
Agreed but not just any goalkeeper. The best goalkeeper in the world.
Oh the irony of saying you're going to educate me, while simultaneously misspelling "buffoon". You are worth your weight in gold. I'm aware Adnan is a name, thanks for the valuable lesson. I've explained the, quite reasonable, thought process. I honestly don't know how I could spell it out any plainer.You're an idiot and I'm glad to educate you, you bufoon. Adnan is a very common name amongst certain people of a particular back ground. I wouldn't expect an arse like you to understand that with how ignorant you're.
The Litmanen comparison was made when LVG took over and there was alot of speculation on how we were gonna set up. Litmanen played under LVG if you didn't know. And I gave my two cents on how I thought LVG was gonna potentially deploy the young Belgian. But it's no surprise a Donkey like you completely ignored the context. Van Persie said Januzaj was amongst the very best young players he'd ever seen, in the top two to be exact.. I also rated Ravel, Rossi and Pique you clown.
I responded to a poster who said, I was alone in my opinion of Lindelof due to the newspapers giving him a high rating. I countered by saying I've been in this situation before with Memphis and Mourinho. What on earth did that have to do with Januzaj. But I'm glad I could educate a tit like you..
So what? It's still a daft comparison, and your woefully inaccurate prediction makes a mockery of your aforementioned boast about your judgement. And that was just one of your many gems in the AJ threads anyway, and even now you haven't acknowledged you were wrong.
Who said you didn't? How are you so slow at following this thread. Let me spell it out:
You reference another player.
In response to you I reference another player.
You make shitty comment about my reference.
I point out your hypocrisy.
You feel the need to explain why you mentioned it, missing the point entirely.
So no, this "donkey" didn't miss the context, you just completely missed the point. Well done. You felt the need to bring up other players as evidence of your incredible judgement. I was happy to balance that out.
Just like when it was pointed out to you your observation about his heading in the match was entirely wrong and embedded in your bias, you should just ignore this and move along.
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This micro analysis of games really gets my goat. Turned by the world's best striker and by a hot talent (who himself wasn't sure of what he was doing I think)? So bloody what?
Our midfield lost complete control and we were being bombarded with pressure. The otter side in that situation will fashion a chance or 3, inevitably. Kane has turned the world's best inside out, it's competitive sport and we can't expect to be perfect for 90 minutes. They needed the goal and came at us relentlessly as one of the best high intensity teams in the league that they are.
How the 11 shots on target are on Lindelof is baffling and then to name drop the 2 best central defenders in the world and proffer the opinion that installing them in will improve us, said with a sagely looking Forest Whitaker eye like it makes you enlightened about football, is laughable. Coach and play to strengths (ala: Klopp. Poch) before taking this simplistic wholesale replace approach based on conclusions drawn out of extreme criticism.
Our midfield lost complete control and we were being bombarded with pressure. The otter side in that situation will fashion a chance or 3, inevitably. Kane has turned the world's best inside out, it's competitive sport and we can't expect to be perfect for 90 minutes. They needed the goal and came at us relentlessly as one of the best high intensity teams in the league that they are.
How the 11 shots on target are on Lindelof is baffling and then to name drop the 2 best central defenders in the world and proffer the opinion that installing them in will improve us, said with a sagely looking Forest Whitaker eye like it makes you enlightened about football, is laughable. Coach and play to strengths (ala: Klopp. Poch) before taking this simplistic wholesale replace approach based on conclusions drawn out of extreme criticism.
I'm glad you know 'Adnan' is a name, you're making progress..
I was told I was alone in my assessment of Lindelof. I just pointed to my earlier calls on Mourinho and Memphis which were also a minority view. But you came in high and mighty telling me about Januzaj..
FFS if you want to have an argument about Adnan or Anand or Januzaj please make another thread about it.
Sarcasm is a tough concept, keep trying.I'm glad you know 'Adnan' is a name, you're making progress..
I was told I was alone in my assessment of Lindelof. I just pointed to my earlier calls on Mourinho and Memphis which were also a minority view. But you came in high and mighty telling me about Januzaj..
And still you're explaining context. I don't give a damn about your context. You've used another players to make a point about how incredible your judgment was, I used another player as an example of how this was simple not true. Then you've made a snidey remark about it, completely missing the enormous dollop of hypocrisy in the mix. Inexplicably, you still haven't managed to grasp this over simple point.
Speaking of untruths, you were not the only one to think Memphis wasn't good enough, though I hope the plethora of alerts on the matter should have opened your eyes. Much like the complete nonsense you spouted about Lindelofs aerial ability, you make some random observation, and once you are proven to be wrong, you move on to the next bit of exaggerated "analysis" in a desperate attempt to vindicate your initial assessment of a player. And when you're challenged on the matter, you seem to make it your purpose to come across as the biggest clown in the thread.
Are we resigning Januzaj to play with Lindelof or something?
Get your head out of Lindelof's arse. You seem to be taking criticism regarding him to a new level. Nowhere did I claim my opinion or judgement was Gospel. You brought up Januzaj after trawling through my posts, which shows how upset you must've got over my assessment over the Swede. Relax and calm down.
If the person you are talking to doesn’t appear to be listening, be patient. It may simply be that he has a small piece of fluff in his ear.
—Winnie the Pooh
Don't think there's too much wrong with a CB being beaten by a wide attacker, generally I'd back Martial if he can isolate any PL CB. Would say the same for a lot of wide men vs CB match ups (Hazard, Salah, Mane, Sane, Mahrez etc) but obviously the point is to stop them isolating CBs in the first place.
The choice for me is about how we want to play - the problem wasn't not having a Vidic type player, it was that we retreated back, sat deep and invited pressure onto us. If we can dominate the ball and control games, we won't face that much pressure.
He's playing well for quite a long time and I am happy that we may finally have a world-class potential CB. But I don't understand some people acting like he played like Vidic or had a perfect game. If this is a great game by him I dread to think what may happen when he has his "normal" game. Surely we should expect our first choice CB to play a lot better?
I am not judging him as a player and I am happy with his recent improve in form, my point is a lot of the praise toward him based on the last match is over the top and he should (and I think, or at least hope that he can) defend a lot better.
I am not judging him as a player and I am happy with his recent improve in form, my point is a lot of the praise toward him based on the last match is over the top and he should (and I think, or at least hope that he can) defend a lot better.
Why some fans can't understand that despite a having had a number of years of Klopp and Pep explaining and demonstrating that to them is baffling.
Of course, attackers are going to get the better of defenders at times. But if Rio and Vidic got beaten as many times as Lindelof did this game, they wouldn't be getting the praise that Lindelof has gotten in this game because we hold those two up to a higher standard.
I'm not a hater of Lindelof. I think he's improved and I want him to do well, but the kind of praise he's getting here shows the low standards we set for our players nowadays.
Agreed.
He is a defender who can play football with his feet so that's already massive plus for me, comparing him with other top defender are ridiculous, it's not like Torres never made fun of Vidic or Italy didn't even qualify for world cup despite having Bonucci and Chiellini.Koulibaly is arguably the best defender in the world nowadays but pretty sure some Italian farmers beat him this season whether on the ground or in the air, but you don't rate a defender based on how many times they got beaten by a forward. Lindelof is the only CB we have who potentially can be a world class defender so we don't need an upgrade of him, we only need an upgrade of his partner.
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Wow someone is getting upset. You need to calm down sweetheart, just accept you’ve been shown up to be talking bullshit nunerous times and move along. Oh yeah, the search function is a revelation!
You’ve brought up your past opinions about other players in a desperate attempt to boast about your judgement, who does that? There comes a point where you don’t even address what’s in the post that you just need to cut your loses. When you’re making up shit that can be directly and swiftly disproven by a few stats, you should accept that maybe your desire to be proven right, despite all evidence to the contrary, is being taken too far.
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By a few stats.
This pretty much nails it..
Yeah, I'd like to see some of the most acclaimed defenders in the world (Koulibaly, Alderweireld) being subjected to the same micro criticism that Lindelöf endures.
Might actually turn out that good defenders don't beat the attacker to the ball every time or win every single header!!
Might actually turn out that good defenders don't beat the attacker to the ball every time or win every single header!!
The problem with our fan base is that the second a player shows Improvement, which Lindelof has, it gets blown way out of proportion.
I don't think any of the defence played well in the 2nd half. None of them. We got pulled all over the place and they made at least 5/6 really good chances maybe more.
You can say he's improved but saying he was 'great' at Wembley just shows how delusional our fans have become.
I don't think any of the defence played well in the 2nd half. None of them. We got pulled all over the place and they made at least 5/6 really good chances maybe more.
You can say he's improved but saying he was 'great' at Wembley just shows how delusional our fans have become.
Are we allowed to say.. That he was very good..?
It's just posters who refuse to change their opinion on him. They started with he's gash and won't let it go for some reason.
I didn’t think he was the right choice or strong enough mentally when we bought him. But he has improved a lot and will be an important player for us going forward it seems.
When we talk about Rio and Vidic we're always using the 2008 example of them. There have been few better partnerships than that in world football and it's unfair to expect Lindelof, or anyone else, to match them.
They weren't always that good though. Think back to Rio's early days. Mistake prone, even a bit of a headless chicken at times as he tried to do everything for everyone, but he always had the confidence on the ball and knew where he needed to be. It took the right system and the right partner (and arguably a drugs ban) for it all to click into place.
The 'Ekeke special'.
Agree fully. When i said poor first half i however not mean that he was beaten 1-1, I mean how they did know how to handle the United players running in behind their high line.
And I also agree that the problem was sitting deep and not having any control at all in the midfield. Wave after wave of attack. But Spurs are a good team and sometimes that happen.
Torres was Vidic kryptonite, but again Torres was world class at the time, as is Kane at the moment. I'm just glad the mistakes are happening now and gives Lindelof a chance to learn from them. If the same mistakes were made during his prime then there'd be a cause for concern.
I do.
Same with Smalling, Jones, Bailly and Rojo.
Toby is weak in the air too and I don't want us paying £100 million for Koulibaly even though I do think he's one of the better CBs around. Thats way too much money.
I think what people are trying to say is that most times he's come up against quality opposition he has been culpable for goals or clear goal scoring opportunities - Juventus (Ronaldo), Spurs (Kane, Alli) and City (Aguero).
I don't think there's a single person in this thread who hasn't acknowledged his clear improvement but there are still massive question marks about his defensive abilities. He really reminds me of Blind to be honest. Good in possession, reads the game well but still struggles with some key elements of defending (heading, tracking runners).
Who should we get then?
I think there's quite a few CBs playing better than ours this season.
Some are hyped up and some arent.
For example I'd say Pezzella at Fiorentina would be my 2nd pick from Serie A after Koulibaly at a much lower price, which Napoli probably wont agree to. I'd say he's the 2nd best CB there ahead of Skriniar. Very strong in the air, can play some good long passes out of the back and wins the ball back a decent amount of the time. He could probably play with either Smalling or Lindelof because he's both good in the air and can pass the ball a bit and with no hype about him I'd imagine we could get him for a fee that reflects his ability.
My point was:
Is there any CB in the world who hasnt ”been culpable for goals or clear goal scoring opportunities” against top quality forwards? Ronaldo scores all the time. Hat tricks against top teams. Aguero as well. That is why they are considered top players. I think it is a weird way of evaluating a 24 year old CB when these guys have been fooling every top defender in the world for years.
So it is, those who were too fast and most loudly argued that Lindelof is completely useless has got problems now, that's why they overreact.
No
Yes plenty of CBs have had good games where one of the better attackers in the league didn't get the best of them. Smalling Vs. Kane for example. No CB will come out on top against the best attackers every single game. But can they do it once? Yes obviously. Can they do it fairly regularly? Yes.
Last I checked Kane hasn't scored a single goal against Lindelof. He's scored twice against Smalling, who gets routinely skinned by Aguero too. The best attackers will always get chances regardless of who the defender is. There is no shame in Harry Kane getting a weak left footed shot off that's comfortably saved.
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