[Harry190]

Do you expect our CB to play scholes-esque passes every game? He is great at playing the ball through midfield. But okay dont let that ruin your agenda against our second best CB.

At the risk of sounding passive-aggressive:

fantastic adjective (GOOD)
extremely good:

You look fantastic in that dress.
We had a fantastic time.
They won the tournament? How fantastic!


He did nothing that Bailly wasn't doing. I do not expect him to have the same contribution as Scholes, no. I just do not agree with the hyperbole being thrown around with regards to his general ability. The standard I apply is that of Man Utd teams of the past. He is not in that bracket.

 

[Rozay]

Not sure why he has earned a reputation as a ‘ball-playing defender’. It seems things stick for very little reason these days. I know he came touted as one, but he’s not better on the ball than Bailly for me. And I’m not saying he’s poor on the ball or anything, but people seem to have this truth about him based on very little. ‘Our only ball-playing defender’. ‘Our best defender on the ball’. Haven’t seen it, except for home against City last year with his long passes.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Not sure why he has earned a reputation as a ‘ball-playing defender’. It seems things stick for very little reason these days. I know he came touted as one, but he’s not better on the ball than Bailly for me. And I’m not saying he’s poor on the ball or anything, but people seem to have this truth about him based on very little. ‘Our only ball-playing defender’. ‘Our best defender on the ball’. Haven’t seen it, except for home against City last year with his long passes.

Multiple times he brought the ball out only for nobody to move into space for him or open up for a pass so he gestured and had to pass back.

I really do think he's quite good at the ball playing aspect.

 

[el3mel]

Ball playing CB = a CB who can bring the ball to the midfield players to start a proper attack not just hoofing it around to lala land.

 

[Ekeke]

Ball playing CB = a CB who can bring the ball to the midfield players to start a proper attack not just hoofing it around to lala land.

Thats really weird because a lot of the "ball playing CBs" are the ones who play long expansive passes bypassing midfield.

Our CBs mostly keep it short and don't play many long passes. Our DM comes short and takes the ball off them regardless of who is playing DM or CB.

 

[A-man]

He can hit good long balls with both feet, but imo his strength is advancing with the ball and finding passes to the more offensive part of the midfield. I think he could do a lot of good deliveries for Sanchez for example.

Last season he was often blocked by Matic or someone else. Let’s hope he gets more freedom to move up the pitch this season.

 

[Rozay]

Ball playing CB = a CB who can bring the ball to the midfield players to start a proper attack not just hoofing it around to lala land.

Lindelof hasn’t shown anywhere near enough here to be classified as a ‘ball-playing centre half’. If he is, then so is just about everyone. He’s no Stones or Luiz by any stretch. People just thought that’s what he would be before he came, so have stuck with it based on heaven knows what.

 

[el3mel]

Lindelof hasn’t shown anywhere near enough here to be classified as a ‘ball-playing centre half’. If he is, then so is just about everyone. He’s no Stones or Luiz by any stretch. People just thought that’s what he would be before he came, so have stuck with it based on heaven knows what.

Luiz is class above every ball playing CB because he's the only can even play even as a midfielder and join the attack to score. He looks like an attacking CB not just ball playing one.

There's nothing different between Stones and Lindelof when it comes to ball playing skills though. Again, ball playing CB = being comfortably able to get the ball from the back and get it to the midfield so that the attack is built normally from behind up forward, not hoofing it from the back anywhere upfront and waiting for someone to luckily get the long balls. That's what Stones, Lindelof and even Blind previously under LVG did.

 

[Loublaze]

Lindelof hasn’t shown anywhere near enough here to be classified as a ‘ball-playing centre half’. If he is, then so is just about everyone. He’s no Stones or Luiz by any stretch. People just thought that’s what he would be before he came, so have stuck with it based on heaven knows what.

This. There's nothing special about his passing and on-the ball abilities. Its all pretty rudimentary with him in almost every aspect of his game.

 

[Harry190]

Luiz is class above every ball playing CB because he's the only can even play even as a midfielder and join the attack to score. He looks like an attacking CB not just ball playing one.

There's nothing different between Stones and Lindelof when it comes to ball playing skills though. Again, ball playing CB = being comfortably able to get the ball from the back and get it to the midfield so that the attack is built normally from behind up forward, not hoofing it from the back anywhere upfront and waiting for someone to luckily get the long balls. That's what Stones, Lindelof and even Blind previously under LVG did.

What kind of games are you watching where Center Backs only hoof the ball hoping for the best? Every CB in the Premier League can do what you're describing.

Sometimes, you don't have the possibility of doing that because your team mates are either static or the other team is covering everything.

 

[el3mel]

What kind of games are you watching where Center Backs only hoof the ball hoping for the best? Every CB in the Premier League can do what you're describing.

Sometimes, you don't have the possibility of doing that because your team mates are either static or the other team is covering everything.

Not really. Most CBs either hoof the ball or go for the easiest option which is passing to the fullback on their same side, which will get the full responsibility of getting the ball to the midfield and start the attack. Smalling does this a lot btw i.e. not hoofing but passing to the fullback and let him start the attack. That can't be called a proper building from the back.

 

[VorZakone]

Lindelof still looks weak to me. He doesn't have that 'forwards bounce off him' aura like Bailly.

 

[Rozay]

Luiz is class above every ball playing CB because he's the only can even play even as a midfielder and join the attack to score. He looks like an attacking CB not just ball playing one.

There's nothing different between Stones and Lindelof when it comes to ball playing skills though. Again, ball playing CB = being comfortably able to get the ball from the back and get it to the midfield so that the attack is built normally from behind up forward, not hoofing it from the back anywhere upfront and waiting for someone to luckily get the long balls. That's what Stones, Lindelof and even Blind previously under LVG did.

There is a lot different to Stones and Lindelöf, at least on what we’ve seen so far. Ball-playing defenders are labelled by how comfortable they are on the ball, quite simply, in my opinion. You try and apply pressure on John Stones and he won’t lose his shit, he’ll turn away from you, play a one-two around you etc. This is what you expect from a decent midfielder, and allows his team to keep possession when pressured. Even Chris Smalling will pass the ball to Pogba or Matic who are 5 yards away if not pressed. Does that make him a ‘ball-playing defender?’.

Lindelöf hasn’t shown he is more comfortable on the ball than other centre halves, even those at our own club. Bailly is a lot more comfortable on the ball if you ask me. But his nickname isn’t ‘The Iceman’ I guess.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Pep says he's going to play Stones as the holding midfielder in some games soon.

 

[el3mel]

There is a lot different to Stones and Lindelöf, at least on what we’ve seen so far. Ball-playing defenders are labelled by how comfortable they are on the ball, quite simply, in my opinion. You try and apply pressure on John Stones and he won’t lose his shit, he’ll turn away from you, play a one-two around you etc. This is what you expect from a decent midfielder, and allows his team to keep possession when pressured. Even Chris Smalling will pass the ball to Pogba or Matic who are 5 yards away if not pressed. Does that make him a ‘ball-playing defender?’.

Lindelöf hasn’t shown he is more comfortable on the ball than other centre halves, even those at our own club. Bailly is a lot more comfortable on the ball if you ask me. But his nickname isn’t ‘The Iceman’ I guess.

He needs to bulk up physically and gain some strength to cope with the PL physicality but that's it. Stones was playing all his time in England and fully suited to the demands of the league. That's only Lindelof's second year in the league and still needs to bulk up a little. That's the issue imo not that he's not good with the ball in his feet or anything like that.

 

[Rozay]

He needs to bulk up physically and gain some strength to cope with the PL physicality but that's it. Stones was playing all his time in England and fully suited to the demands of the league. That's only Lindelof's second year in the league and still needs to bulk up a little. That's the issue imo not that he's not good with the ball in his feet or anything like that.

He may be good with the ball. What I’m saying is that he hasn’t shown it. When he does, I will give him qualities that I have seen.

And Stones was dribbling away from Premier League strikers in his own box at 19/20 - so not sure it’s all down to physical development at all.

 

[el3mel]

He may be good with the ball. What I’m saying is that he hasn’t shown it. When he does, I will give him qualities that I have seen.

And Stones was dribbling away from Premier League strikers in his own box at 19/20 - so not sure it’s all down to physical development at all.

Growing up playing in the premier league is different growing up in the Portuguese one.

 

[Rozay]

Growing up playing in the premier league is different growing up in the Portuguese one.

He didn’t grow up playing in the PL, he joined from Barnsley at 18, when regardless of his background, he was not fully developed physically. And Lindelöf didn’t grow up in Portugal, he grew up in Sweden. He is also 23 years old now, and yesterday was outmuscled by a 21 year old, who also did not grow up in the MMA that is ‘the Premier League’.

If Lindelöf starts showing great ability on the ball, beating men and being calm when pressed, I will say he’s excellent on the ball. Whatever his background, whatever your theories, I will not say that about him when he has not shown it.

Aymeric Laporte is younger than Lindelöf I believe, and is better on the ball from what I’ve seen, despite still having physical development to attain, and despite not growing up in the PL. De Ligt is excellent on the ball, at 18, against bigger people. Your argument for Lindelöf being great on the ball is that he could still get stronger, so ‘who knows?’

 

[el3mel]

He didn’t grow up playing in the PL, he joined from Barnsley at 18, when regardless of his background, he was not fully developed physically. And Lindelöf didn’t grow up in Portugal, he grew up in Sweden. He is also 23 years old now, and yesterday was outmuscled by a 21 year old, who also did not grow up in the MMA that is ‘the Premier League’.

If Lindelöf starts showing great ability on the ball, beating men and being calm when pressed, I will say he’s excellent on the ball. Whatever his background, whatever your theories, I will not say that about him when he has not shown it.

Aymeric Laporte is younger than Lindelöf I believe, and is better on the ball from what I’ve seen, despite still having physical development to attain, and despite not growing up in the PL. De Ligt is excellent on the ball, at 18, against bigger people. Your argument for Lindelöf being great on the ball is that he could still get stronger, so ‘who knows?’

It still completely different growing up suited to a certain pace and physicality side than growing used to a slower pace, much more space, less pressure and less physicality then moves to a league with a higher standard in all these aspects. Not sure how you're arguing such a clear fact.

I don't remember me saying he has been a hit here, the jury is still on him to be seen this season but I'm fine with his ball playing skills so far. The main issue for me is heading, getting outmuscled and actual defending, but regarding passing forward and building the attack, nah think he has been fine so far, not Luiz esque but fine.

 

[JohnnyBoy89]

I just think Lindelöf needs toughen up a bit, not only physical but primarily mentally. Would be nice to see this season if he can show some leadership abilities from the back. Start the build up and get all the players to form an lethal attack based on his movement up the field, they need to trust his great passing abilities too. He did it at Benfica plenty of times. I just think he has too much of respect for our "world class" players ATM.

I know how great this kid is, seen him up close from an early age. He will be a top 10 world class defender and I am not kidding. He will show us this season.

 

[sam147]

At the risk of sounding passive-aggressive:

fantastic adjective (GOOD)
extremely good:

You look fantastic in that dress.
We had a fantastic time.
They won the tournament? How fantastic!


He did nothing that Bailly wasn't doing. I do not expect him to have the same contribution as Scholes, no. I just do not agree with the hyperbole being thrown around with regards to his general ability. The standard I apply is that of Man Utd teams of the past. He is not in that bracket.

! Honestly though he has the ability. He showed that against Man City. I think its more instructions from Jose to keep it simple. And Bailly is great on the ball but very clumsy at times. Lindelof was called Ice Man for a reason. I highly rate him you might not but his ball playing ability is top level.

 

[the_irish123]

his short sprint is worrisome slow

 

[whatwha]

his short sprint is worrisome slow

His acceleration sucks. This was known before he signed. Or should have been known. One look at his youtube compilation could have told Mourinho that. Not a very well thought out transfer. Though he might be a decent servant yet.

 

[JohnnyBoy89]

His acceleration sucks. This was known before he signed. Or should have been known. One look at his youtube compilation could have told Mourinho that. Not a very well thought out transfer. Though he might be a decent servant yet.

As long as he is positioned right that doesn't matter at all. With some backup from the midfield he will be just fine. "Old fart Granqvist" and young Lindelöf were holding their positions excellent at the World Cup against some of the best players in the world. Just give Lindelöf some space forward from the back and he will create loads of chances this year.

Edit: Also, Mourinho knows exactly what Lindelöf is capable of, definitely not only by watching clips from youtube. I recall he watched plenty of Benfica games before signing him. Mourinho needs a well thought out plan how the get the best out of Lindelöf. Wouldn't be surprised if he has been giving Swedens national coach a call for some advice. Lindelöf needs an animal beside him, don't know if Bailly is up for the task.

 

[the_irish123]

As long as he is positioned right that doesn't matter at all. With some backup from the midfield he will be just fine. "Old fart Granqvist" and young Lindelöf were holding their positions excellent at the World Cup against some of the best players in the world. Just give Lindelöf some space forward from the back and he will create loads of chances this year.

I agree mostly but you can't compare the need for acceleration in Sweden where the line is super deep all the time.

 

[11101]

I agree mostly but you can't compare the need for acceleration in Sweden where the line is super deep all the time.

I don't watch Sweden much but it's not like we are playing on the half way line either. That shouldn't be a huge issue, especially with a quick fullback in Shaw and centre backs like Bailly or Smalling either side of him.

 

[Fracture90]

Ha gotta bulk up a bit, imo he lacks strength to deal with the physicality of EPL strikers.

 

[Foxbatt]

One of the best CBs when they played was Blanc and he was no Bolt either. He was slow too. Lindelof will become a top defender. When these players like Lindelof and Darmian etc play for their countries they are very different players to what we see at United. Players need to play together to learn how to play with each other. I thought both of our CBS played very well until Bailly switched off in the last minute to let that ball get through. He should never have let it through and David also should have done something about it before it hit the post.

 

[11101]

One of the best CBs when they played was Blanc and he was no Bolt either. He was slow too. Lindelof will become a top defender. When these players like Lindelof and Darmian etc play for their countries they are very different players to what we see at United. Players need to play together to learn how to play with each other. I thought both of our CBS played very well until Bailly switched off in the last minute to let that ball get through. He should never have let it through and David also should have done something about it before it hit the post.

Baresi wasn't known for his pace either. Its not necessary and can even be a problem if a player has grown up relying on superior speed instead of developing defensive skills.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Baresi wasn't known for his pace either. Its not necessary and can even be a problem if a player has grown up relying on superior speed instead of developing defensive skills.

Baresi and Blanc didn’t have much pace - but they were also two of the best CBs that have ever player the game. I’ve not seen anything from Lindelof that is above average in any respect of his game. He’s a bit like Henning Berg - who I thought was a pretty non-descript footballer also. I really don’t see that he has the attributes to be a first team player at Utd. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Invictus]

Baresi wasn't known for his pace either. Its not necessary and can even be a problem if a player has grown up relying on superior speed instead of developing defensive skills.

Don't quite agree with the Baresi mention, mate — while he wasn't renowned for his pace in an overt way, he was quick for a centerback, especially across short distances — which is what matters most at the position. Though even across long distances, he was no slouch when it came to tracking back in defense or bringing the ball into midfield areas:

Spoiler

Because of how long Franco's career was, there's a tendency to paint with broad strokes and conflate his physical conditioning towards the mid '90s with his overall representation as a player — which is a tad bit misleading, IMO.

Though on a general note wrt. Lindelöf, I do think his lack of pace is overplayed, to an extent — in that it's not necessarily a liability, and football isn't about pure athleticism. He should be fine as long as he keeps working on his positional awareness and reading of the game (given his profile as a defender), and becomes more dogged/proactive in his approach.

 

[Cro]

I really like him as a guy, as he seems very down to earth, but I'm still not really convinced he will be a success here. I fail to spot his strenghts, because I don't see him being that great on the ball. His passing is okay, but wouldn't say he is head and shoulders above our other centre backs and that's actually a real weakness of our defence. Furthermore, he had to be covered 2-3 times by Bailly during the Leicester game. He needs to step it up, if he wants to stay here for the long run.

 

[Litch]

For me I'm not sure what else this lad needs to do? What you want is progressive improvement and fixing the issues where there's a problem. Huddersfield game could have sunk some players but he's proved he's mentally strong. World Cup he didn't put a foot wrong. All the things people say he can't do, I've yet to see it. We have CB's that have been here for years yet still making the same bloody mistakes yet we are writing him off before he's made them. He goes about his work calm and without fuss, thought he got Bailly out the shit a few times too on Friday...

 

[TwoSheds]

Has anyone mentioned that Stones and Luiz are shite? Thought it relevant to some of the discussion in here.

 

[friendlytramp]

Did well playing on his wrong side

 

[Don Alfredo]

Has anyone mentioned that Stones and Luiz are shite? Thought it relevant to some of the discussion in here.

Dunno why you say that now, but Stones has been very good today.

 

[Foxbatt]

He needs to play regularly to get his game going. He is going to make mistakes as any player will but I do not think he is weak at all. He has not played more than a few games in the PL and the more he plays the better he is going to get used to the PL.

 

[Loublaze]

Baresi wasn't known for his pace either. Its not necessary and can even be a problem if a player has grown up relying on superior speed instead of developing defensive skills.

Baresi would've struggled with the fast pace of the PL but he was vastly superior in every other respect.

 

[Grande]

For me I'm not sure what else this lad needs to do? What you want is progressive improvement and fixing the issues where there's a problem. Huddersfield game could have sunk some players but he's proved he's mentally strong. World Cup he didn't put a foot wrong. All the things people say he can't do, I've yet to see it. We have CB's that have been here for years yet still making the same bloody mistakes yet we are writing him off before he's made them. He goes about his work calm and without fuss, thought he got Bailly out the shit a few times too on Friday...

In my view Lindelöf was by far the best defender against Leicester. Bailly did som highly visual plus things, but again put us in danger more than a few times as well too with uncouth positioning, awareness and decisions. Lindelöf covered for him several times, and made hardly a defensive mistake. He is definitely not slow, and won most of his headers I believe. Leicester’s chances came from mistakes by Darmian, Bailly and on two occasions, Shaw. Attacking wise he was tidy, efficient and looking for the best options where Bailly will often chance his luck.

Friday to me was the first piece of evidence that bailly and Lindelöf might be the duo that best compliment each other in the squad. They didn’t have trouble in the air either, of course other teams will test that better than Leicester did. It’s one game, their second together. But promising.

 

[TwoSheds]

Dunno why you say that now, but Stones has been very good today.

Didn't watch, dont care, but one swallow does not a summer make. Shite defender.