VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

NotChatGPT said:
:lol:

https://www.thefa.com/football-rule.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

Don't be daft.


HANDLING THE BALL

For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit. Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.

It is an offence if a player:

  • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
  • touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
  • scores in the opponents' goal:
    • directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
    • immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental
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obvioulsy the premier league were being daft too when they lobbied IFAB to change the interpretation and IFAB didn't! Anything about the shoulder is deemed as the bolded regardless of what you think. Is it stupid absolutely but thats IFAB for ya.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Under the Premier League handball rules the ball coming of another body part before hitting the arm and proximity between the kicker and the handler are taken in to acount but under IFAB rules neither of those are taken in to account hence why you seen pens given in the Champions League that would never be given in the Premier League.
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The PL don't make their own rules, they ask their refs to consider such things but they aren't part of the rules. Also the ball didn't come off any part of Onana till after his hand. Should it be a penalty? Not if the rules aren't stupid, but the rules are stupid, so it is.
 
NotChatGPT said:
:lol:

https://www.thefa.com/football-rule.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

Don't be daft.


HANDLING THE BALL

For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit. Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.

It is an offence if a player:

  • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
  • touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
  • scores in the opponents' goal:
    • directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
    • immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental
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This is the actual law. Raising arm above the head is used as an indicator of when the unnatural threshold is likely to be met.

People struggle with the difference between law and guidance unfortunately.
 
padr81 said:
We'll be rightly punished if we're guilty of the charges, still doesn't make any of the shit in this thread remotely credible being honest does it.

Since start of 18/19
City 48 pens for 25 against in PL
Liverpool 36 for 16 against
United 48 for 24 against

Now given 2 of those teams competed at the top end of Europe and dominated the league and yet have had less go their way than the worst United in living memory I'd say we all know who has had the run of the green decision wise.

We can do red cards too if you like? I suspect that will shit on the referees against United myth too though.
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Now tell us the numbers from 2020/2021
 
Swedish_Plumber said:
VAR being used for balls going out of play is a farce.
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It was in.

If Arteta mention anything about this, just show them how many decision they got this year. Start with Garnacho goal that was strangly disallowed for some offside to Odegaard playing handball against Liverpool.
 
padr81 said:
We can do red cards too if you like? I suspect that will shit on the referees against United myth too though.
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Dont get me started on Red Cards after the many reds Fernandinho got away with during his time at City as well as a few other City players.

Liverpool get away with plenty of red cards as well, how many times did Mane slam his elbow in to an opposition players face and get away with it?

Casemiro got a straight red for putting his hands on a Crystal Palace players shoulders while Jordan Ayew was strangling a Man Utd player and got nothing then Caemiro was sent off again for a challenge that while it was a red was only given as a red after a VAR official who the previous day had decided an almost identical challenge in amother game wasnt deserving of a red interveaned and sent the ref to the screen.

Also Dalot correctly sent off for desent but Haaland behaves disgracefully toward the officials and gets nothing, VVD got a 3 game ban for doing a lot less to an official earlier this season.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Dont get me started on Red Cards after the many reds Fernandinho got away with during his time at City as well as a few other City players.

Liverpool get away with plenty of red cards as well, how many times did Mane slam his elbow in to an opposition players face and get away with it?

Casemiro got a straight red for putting his hands on a Crystal Palace players shoulders while Jordan Ayew was strangling a Man Utd player and got nothing then Caemiro was sent off again for a challenge that while it was a red was only given as a red after a VAR official who the previous day had decided an almost identical challenge in amother game wasnt deserving of a red interveaned and sent the ref to the screen.

Also Dalot correctly sent off for desent but Haaland behaves disgracefully toward the officials and gets nothing, VVD got a 3 game ban for doing a lot less to an official earlier this season.
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And then van Dijk got feck all for blatantly asking the referee if he'd been drinking, hand motion and all.
 
No yellow for Royale there for betraying the linesman after he didn’t get a throw in?
 
Saka constantly diving and throws his arms out at the ref when they don't buy his simulation (nor ever book him for it frustratingly).

How is that not considered dissent? Wrongfully berating the referee to claim your dive was actually a foul? Worse than Dalot. That should have been two yellows.
 
Garnacho's Shoelaces said:
This is the actual law. Raising arm above the head is used as an indicator of when the unnatural threshold is likely to be met.

People struggle with the difference between law and guidance unfortunately.
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I've quoted the actual law.

padr81 said:
obvioulsy the premier league were being daft too when they lobbied IFAB to change the interpretation and IFAB didn't! Anything about the shoulder is deemed as the bolded regardless of what you think. Is it stupid absolutely but thats IFAB for ya.
Click to expand...

There's nothing in the interpretation that states anything above shoulder height is a penalty.

I'm not really sure why i'm getting involved in a debate about this with a lot that is throwing out numbers that are meaningless in itself and debating them as if they mean something.
 
NotChatGPT said:
I've quoted the actual law.



There's nothing in the interpretation that states anything above shoulder height is a penalty.

I'm not really sure why i'm getting involved in a debate about this with a lot that is throwing out numbers that are meaningless in itself and debating them as if they mean something.
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Yeah I was supporting you pal. Sorry if I didn't write it clearly.
 
In terms of being shafted, it's going to be fun to watch the debate regarding West Hams first goal tonight compared to our goal that was wrongly disallowed against Brighton.

Newcastle's goal against Arsenal, West Hams goal against Arsenal tonight, VAR can only overrule the on the pitch decision if they can prove the ball went out. Which they can't because the ball is so close to the line and without having a proper camera angle without an angle there's too much uncertainty. As such, they will always side with the on the pitch decision. Gary Neville even mansplained it in regards to Newcastles goal against Arsenal.
 
padr81 said:
We'll be rightly punished if we're guilty of the charges, still doesn't make any of the shit in this thread remotely credible being honest does it.

Since start of 18/19
City 48 pens for 25 against in PL
Liverpool 36 for 16 against
United 48 for 24 against

Now given 2 of those teams competed at the top end of Europe and dominated the league and yet have had less go their way than the worst United in living memory I'd say we all know who has had the run of the green decision wise.

We can do red cards too if you like? I suspect that will shit on the referees against United myth too though.
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What does number of penalties being awarded to any team have anything to do with the inconsistency of the officials in awarding any decision. When one game the decision not being given is justified with a specific reason (proximity for romero handball) then the same yardstick should be used not to give decisions to other teams as well.
There have been several instances where the rule has been applied selectively to United and then been forgotten about in the same situations for city or liverpool. We are going to feel aggrieved about it.
 
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Disregard the rest of the tweet but focusing on the non pen Vs pen. It's the same player as well FFS. :lol:
 
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
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It's inconsistency in the VAR thread. Why are you sensitive about it?
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
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Nah, just pointing out how much of a hypocritical bellend Gallagher is. 99.9% of the time he backs the in game decision regardless and justifies his reasoning from there.

The only time I've seen him actually disagree with a decision was the Odegaard handball vs Liverpool last week. Klopp name checked him after the game and that's the only reason he didn't side with the referees.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
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Consistency mate. And maybe the same attention to decisions that go against as when it happens for us. Pretty sure I still hear spurs fans go on about the Pedro Mendes phantom goal from bloody 20 years ago too…
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
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It's not just that handball. Various blatant penalties not given to us early on in the season. Goals disallowed for us, while identical goals have been allowed to stand for other teams. Bookings given to our players for dissent, while opposition players are free to say whatever they like. That sort of thing.
 
VP89 said:
It's inconsistency in the VAR thread. Why are you sensitive about it?
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You say it's inconsistent yet on the other hand will claim these calls only go against Utd. Or maybe these decisions do go against other clubs but you're just not as emotionally invested so easily forget about them.

Romero's was a hand ball, they get given most of the time, this time it didn't. Now every time a similar one gets rightly given you just know what everyone's going to post about. Romero was sent off for a dangerous follow-through tackle against Chelsea, Dunk wasn't sent off for an identical one on Kulusevski last night. Shit happens. I'm not going to keep bringing it up every time a player is rightly sent off for it.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
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It’s completely ridiculous.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
Click to expand...

It was a bit of a sliding doors moment for the season. Go on to win that game and it's 6 points from 6. Who knows what could have changed from there
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
Click to expand...

Depends who you ask, but for me it's more about the signal it sends regarding VAR and the effect it has.

Also, it doesn't really help that we're having a bad season performance wise and at the same time we're also being shafted by VAR/referees (apart from that incident against Wolves at the very start of the season) were identical situations a week later/same week have completely opposite outcomes.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
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Why should they? Between not going ahead while on top of Spurs and inevitably winning that game and the Garnacho winner being wrongly given as offside, United have been done out of 6 points against other top 4 rivals.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
Click to expand...
Bale Bale Bale said:
You say it's inconsistent yet on the other hand will claim these calls only go against Utd. Or maybe these decisions do go against other clubs but you're just not as emotionally invested so easily forget about them.

Romero's was a hand ball, they get given most of the time, this time it didn't. Now every time a similar one gets rightly given you just know what everyone's going to post about. Romero was sent off for a dangerous follow-through tackle against Chelsea, Dunk wasn't sent off for an identical one on Kulusevski last night. Shit happens. I'm not going to keep bringing it up every time a player is rightly sent off for it.
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You're right, things do generally even themselves out, and 'shit happens' is a pithy way of summing up the vicissitudes of football.

But I draw the line at Manchester City.

Take the Haaland episode. He literally screams in a referee's face, and doesn't even get cautioned. Staggeringly, the ensuing narrative is more about how the referee fecked up than how Haaland should have been carded or perhaps dismissed.

Contrast that to the Dalot sending off. Is it even possible that Haaland gets sent off for waving his arms about in annoyance?

It's has been going on for years and you have to be blind not to see that there is blatant favouritism towards Man City. It's absolutely breathtaking that they continue to get away with it, but it wouldn't surprise me if years down the line something came out.
 
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LDUred said:
You're right, things do generally even themselves out, and 'shit happens' is a fair way of summing up the vicissitudes of football.

But I draw the line at Manchester City.

Take the Haaland episode. He literally screams in a referee's face, and doesn't get cautioned. The ensuing narrative is more about how the referee fecked up.

Contrast that the Dalot sending. Is it even possible that Haaland gets sent off for doing the same thing?
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Because many of the refs get paid by the owners of City? That’s not even tin foil hat posting.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
Click to expand...
If they admitted the mistake instead of doubling down it wouldn't have been an issue as long as it has been.
 
Garnacho's Shoelaces said:
Why should they? Between not going ahead while on top of Spurs and inevitably winning that game and the Garnacho winner being wrongly given as offside, United have been done out of 6 points against other top 4 rivals.
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Inevitably winning that game :lol: Yes, if this season shows anything it's that we definitely would have won if we got a penalty (it's not guarantee of a goal anyway given Bruno missed our most recent penalty). I'm not sure on what basis the Garnacho goal was wrongly disallowed, the technology used is the same as always and he was given offside. This whole post is just nonsense to distract from us being crap so far this year as if it's anything to do with the officiating.

The only issue is with Gallagher's inconsistency, saying the Romero one wasn't a penalty, which I think was fair enough, and then acting like City's will always be given in the modern game and therefore the right call despite them being very similar incidents (City's was less of a handball than Romero's if anything). Having referees as part of the broadcasts has been a disaster because they're more interested in defending their own rather than actually illuminating the viewer.
 
LDUred said:
You're right, things do generally even themselves out, and 'shit happens' is a pithy way of summing up the vicissitudes of football.

But I draw the line at Manchester City.

Take the Haaland episode. He literally screams in a referee's face, and doesn't even get cautioned. Staggeringly, the ensuing narrative is more about how the referee fecked up than how Haaland should have been carded or perhaps dismissed.

Contrast that to the Dalot sending off. Is it even possible that Haaland gets sent off for waving his arms about in annoyance?

It's has been going on for years and you have to be blind not to see that there is blatant favouritism towards Man City. It's absolutely breathtaking that they continue to get away with it, but it wouldn't surprise me if years down the line something came out.
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Looks like you need to take your red-tinted glasses off to read. Haaland literally was given a yellow card for screaming at the referee, and City were subsequently fined £120,000 for the players surrounding the referee.
 
Nice to see another goal allowed due to VAR not being able to prove whether the ball had gone out beforehand.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Utd fans never going to let the Romero handball go are they? :lol:

Don't even know what they want at this point. For every clear handball from now on to not be given just to validate the one that went against them?
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Some of you still talking about Mendes goal that wasn't allowed against Carroll. And that was like 20 years ago.

We should have all the right to talk about this season and some crazy decisions against us that can't be explained. We could have been 12 points better off. Same situations that have been looked at differently in all other games. And that is just beginning and we are not even talking about or mentioning lot of previous seasons.
 
90 + 5min said:
Some of you still talking about Mendes goal that wasn't allowed against Carroll. And that was like 20 years ago.

We should have all the right to talk about this season and some crazy decisions against us that can't be explained. We could have been 12 points better off. Same situations that have been looked at differently in all other games. And that is just beginning and we are not even talking about or mentioning lot of previous seasons.
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Was Odegaard's handball not being given the right decision last week?
 
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