VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

[ShinjiNinja26]

Our one was further out as well. They’re an absolute disgrace! That’s why they need to be held to account. Someone should be dragging them over to a screen post match and showing them examples like this side by side and getting them to justify publicly why one is given and the other isn’t.

 

[garelo]

Until the moment a referee makes a big decision with the replays easily showing he is wrong.

Happened with VAR too, barely make any difference, atleast we wont need to wait 5 mins just to review every minor accident and still come with the wrong conclusion.

I’d happily get rid of VAR it’s the worst thing to happen to football and I don’t want to say I told you so, but I always knew it wasn’t suitable for football with the way the game flows. Take last nights decision, no common sense applied, you’re telling me that Trafford is saving that header from point blank range if Hojland isn’t there? Of course he isn’t, so it’s another stupid decision based on some changing rule book. Yes there were issues pre VAR with bad decisions, but it was nowhere near as bad as it is now.

Atleast they can change the rule, try limiting the usage of VAR, atleast 2 reviews per half and can only be asked by each competing team.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Until the moment a referee makes a big decision with the replays easily showing he is wrong.

Seriously? That’s happened umpteen times already this season.

 

[Amir]

Seriously? That’s happened umpteen times already this season.

VAR corrects far more than it doesn't.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

VAR corrects far more than it doesn't.

I’d need to see some stats from that.

It certainly didn’t in the Arsenal-Spurs game I just watched. Horrible intervention for penalty to Arsenal. Ignored a leg breaker by Nketiah and what looked like a more obvious handball later on (by Spurs defender) than the one that was given.

And that‘s just one game!

 

[MrMarcello]

The link below is the City/Sheffield penalty decision and Luton not getting a handball awarded to them against West Ham. Screenshots are in the link. Haaland missed his spot kick.
https://sheffunitedway.co.uk/2023/09/06/howard-webb-speaks-on-john-egan-handball-incident/
Webb's statement on the City penalty - "The arm of John Egan is pretty significantly away from his body. He’s looking to block the ball with his legs, his body, his head. But to do that action the arm has to come away from his body. And it comes away significantly.” -- did such in the Romero no-call against United.

Pundits debate over the Egan penalty decision against City, mentioning proximity, arms out, etc.
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/john-egan-292054

Shearer telling everyone what we all know and see - ‘tomorrow, another referee would see it in a different way and give it handball’,
“The problem is the consistency. There is every chance that, if that were to happen in a match tomorrow, another referee would see it in a different way and give it handball.
“The proximity. He is only two yards away. I know his arms are out. But I don’t want to see that given as handball – I thought he got most things right, Michael Oliver.”
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/08/...acts-to-cristian-romero-handball-controversy/

I can imagine there are debates and quotes that conflict these pundit comments.

 

[Cpt Negative]

Gordon stops ball going out with his hands (albeit not intentional) and it’s allowed. I don’t know the rules any more

 

[acnumber9]

Our one was also twice the distance away.

Romero was also further from the ball. Making it more blatant. Both should be given.

 

[Remember the geese]

Gordon stops ball going out with his hands (albeit not intentional) and it’s allowed. I don’t know the rules any more

Unless the ref calls it, VAR can't intervene. VAR only get involved in the event that the handball is the final touch that leads to the goal. Dumb rule.

 

[acnumber9]

Unless the ref calls it, VAR can't intervene. Unless the handball is the final touch that leads to the goal.

Course it can intervene if they determine it is handball. If the hand is far enough away from the body then it doesn’t matter that he was the assister.

 

[Remember the geese]

Course it can intervene if they determine it is handball. If the hand is far enough away from the body then it doesn’t matter that he was the assister.

Pretty sure they can't. Only in the event that the handball is literally the final touch.

 

[acnumber9]

Pretty sure they can't. Only in the event that the handball is literally the final touch.

They can. A goal being scored doesn’t materially change the handball rule. They used to disallow if it hit the hand at all regardless of where your hand was and changed it. It doesn’t mean that any handball by the assister is ok. If it’s deliberate or unnatural they can intervene.

 

[Ananke]

If your hands are up, and the ball hits them, no matter what it should be a foul. Keep your hands down ffs. Especially in the penalty area, jumping about, lunging about with flailing arms is your own damn fault.

I dont understand why they are complicating the situation. It’s just causing everyone to get more infuriated with them.

 

[Remember the geese]

They can. A goal being scored doesn’t materially change the handball rule. They used to disallow if it hit the hand at all regardless of where your hand was and changed it. It doesn’t mean that any handball by the assister is ok. If it’s deliberate or unnatural they can intervene.

Since they changed the rule, I'm not sure I have seen a goal disallowed by VAR due to a handball in the build up. Could be wrong.

 

[noodlehair]

Until some standards are applied to the officiating and they are investigated/punished when they do things like admit deliberately not giving a decision to help out their mate, deliberately turning on home fans, cherry picking apologies to certain teams, are statistically proven to deliberately yellow card one spwcific team twice as often as any other, etc. nothing is going to change.

They're quite literally openly anti-integrity and no one seems to have a big problem with it, yet everyone moans when they fail to apply any integrity to their officiating, or somehow thinks VAR is the problem and not just the thing that's making it completely obvious.

 

[Cpt Negative]

They can. A goal being scored doesn’t materially change the handball rule. They used to disallow if it hit the hand at all regardless of where your hand was and changed it. It doesn’t mean that any handball by the assister is ok. If it’s deliberate or unnatural they can intervene.

As they intervened last week for Burnley in the last minute. If anything this one today was more deliberate

 

[Jev]

If your hands are up, and the ball hits them, no matter what it should be a foul. Keep your hands down ffs. Especially in the penalty area, jumping about, lunging about with flailing arms is your own damn fault.

It's not. No person runs or jumps with their hands glued to their hips. The fact that football has decided that that is a natural position just goes to show that the people officiating the game haven't played football during the span of their long-term memory.

 

[Remember the geese]

As they intervened last week for Burnley in the last minute. If anything this one today was more deliberate

Just seen this. I was of the understanding that they changed the rule and that VAR only got involved if the handball was literally the final touch in leading to the goal. Clearly not then.

 

[Oranges038]

I'm sure for the Romero handball, the ball also got deflected of maddison which meant it looped up.


Regardless there is no consistency. Not having an independent team review this is insane rather than just using the inept referees. At least they won't just say, don't worry about it mate.
It might bring some consistency to this

It's a joke, they are all afraid of stepping on each other's toes, because the next week the roles could be reversed.

When players jump or dive in to block a shot there's no way to determine what the natural position should be, because every players body movement and starting position is different.

At this stage the handball rule needs to just go back to it having to be be deliberate or intentional. If you can prove a player intentionally moves their arm towards the ball it's a penalty. If not, play on.

 

[Oranges038]

If your hands are up, and the ball hits them, no matter what it should be a foul. Keep your hands down ffs. Especially in the penalty area, jumping about, lunging about with flailing arms is your own damn fault.

I dont understand why they are complicating the situation. It’s just causing everyone to get more infuriated with them.

You cannot jump effectively for a ball without using your arms. You also need to have your arms out for balance when moving about the place and sliding to make blocks etc. It's not natural to expect players to play with their hands behind their back.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

So when it's Arsenal taking the shot and it hits a Spurs players out stretched hand it's a penalty, but when we do it it's not. Got it...

 

[Catt]

Someone explain to me the difference between the handball decision today, and this (by the very same player):

Absolutely ridiculous that it wasn't given

 

[Catt]

So when it's Arsenal taking the shot and it hits a Spurs players out stretched hand it's a penalty, but when we do it it's not. Got it...

Looks like it

 

[MrMarcello]

I thought the attacking handball rule wasn't solely about intentional or not, but also included gaining an advantage that otherwise would not have occurred.

Gordon certainly did gain an advantage as that handball kept the ball in play and he then further kept the ball in play with his foot as the ball banged off his arm. It's all one sequence that kept possession in the box.

 

[GledTheRed]

Our one was also twice the distance away.

And an actual threat to goal and not a fluffed shot that the keeper would have caught in his sleep.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I thought the attacking handball rule wasn't solely about intentional or not, but also included gaining an advantage that otherwise would not have occurred.

Gordon certainly did gain an advantage as that handball kept the ball in play and he then further kept the ball in play with his foot as the ball banged off his arm. It's all one sequence that kept possession in the box.

They will only call it if the handball directly leads to a goal. So if Gordon scores, it's a handball and no goal. If he passes it off and someone else scores, no VAR involvement. We have gotten screwed on this a couple of times in the past. It's a rule that really should be changed

 

[vanrooney]

So when it's Arsenal taking the shot and it hits a Spurs players out stretched hand it's a penalty, but when we do it it's not. Got it...

our ex players should be all over this and talk the whole week about this but they are too busy slating our team as that is what the majority of viewers want

 

[Sylar]

I didn't see the game so don't have the full context but this wasn't given as a penalty?

 

[Berbasbullet]

I didn't see the game so don't have the full context but this wasn't given as a penalty?

Eh this wasnt a pen?! If united did this there'd a be a 3 hour talksport phone in.

 

[Jazz]

United fans on social media should be getting these decisions to trend or whatever. Tag all relevant parties and put the double standards out there. Ask our ex players why the feck they aren't saying anything etc.

 

[MikeKing]

I didn't see the game so don't have the full context but this wasn't given as a penalty?

That is nuts. It didn't look like he got the ball in that clip but can't say for sure. It's one of those where if he didn't get the ball, it's a penalty. Have to tackle clean if you're going in like that.

 

[edcunited1878]

I didn't see the game so don't have the full context but this wasn't given as a penalty?

That's a pen. Can go all the way back to when Fletcher was sent off in CL semifinal game against Arsenal.

Went around/through the guy, dispossessed the ball, but was deemed a foul/red. This instance player didn't get any of the ball and went through him from the side.

 

[sullydnl]

Someone explain to me the difference between the handball decision today, and this (by the very same player):

The honest answer is that there may well be zero difference. The way the rules are just makes it a wildly subjective call, which means a lot of inconsistency. In that case the ref thought Romero was too close, but another referee would probably have said differently. And VAR wouldn't have intervened either way, because neither interpretation is an outright mistake.

And there's also a difference between competitions. In other leagues or the CL you're more likely to get a handball given than in the PL. For example last season there were 24 penalties for handball in the PL, versus 43 in La Liga.

People complain about narrow offsides a lot but handballs really are the worst.

 

[RedRocket9908]

I cant wait to see how Dermot Gallagher justifys the Arsenal penalty tomorrow after he was adament that the Man Utd one against Spurs wasnt a penalty.

 

[Jeppers7]

The honest answer is that there may well be zero difference. The way the rules are just makes it a wildly subjective call, which means a lot of inconsistency. In that case the ref thought Romero was too close, but another referee would probably have said differently. And VAR wouldn't have intervened either way, because neither interpretation is an outright mistake.

And there's also a difference between competitions. In other leagues or the CL you're more likely to get a handball given than in the PL. For example last season there were 24 penalties for handball in the PL, versus 43 in La Liga.

People complain about narrow offsides a lot but handballs really are the worst.

Can you then explain why they did today?

 

[SER19]

Plenty of games go by without a poor error. Yesterday's match was one of them. But no one is going to highlight those games in any way, and rightly so.

Few rules in football are open to interpretation. Most are not. And I believe that over the last few years we've seen plenty of correct decisions being applied thanks to VAR. The game is better for it, and cleaner for it, even if it's not perfect.

agree to disagree. I was a hgue advocate of var after 2018 WC, and am very disappointed with how its turned out.

 

[Shane88]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Arteta, Klopp and Guardiola scream bloody murder over decisions, they intimidate refs and officials. Same way Fergie used to. Ten Hag meekly accepts the refs fecking us over.

PL refs do not deserve respect. Treat them like shit because that's the only thing to seem to respond to. Go mad at them on the touchline, take a yellow or red. Call them out in the media. Take the fine. The fans should make coming to Old Trafford a very unpleasant experience for them, scream bloody murder at them for decisions.

 

[sirAlexsglasses]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Arteta, Klopp and Guardiola scream bloody murder over decisions, they intimidate refs and officials. Same way Fergie used to. Ten Hag meekly accepts the refs fecking us over.

PL refs do not deserve respect. Treat them like shit because that's the only thing to seem to respond to. Go mad at them on the touchline, take a yellow or red. Call them out in the media. Take the fine. The fans should make coming to Old Trafford a very unpleasant experience for them, scream bloody murder at them for decisions.

100%!!! I’ve said this till im blue in the face, the usual suspects kick up a right fuss and point the finger at us in the media if any decision goes against them. Remember when Klop had a pop at us for thY decision, we didn’t get so much as a sniff after that, ETH is too soft and isn’t cute enough like SAF was, he needs to play the game smarter.

 

[Lash]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Arteta, Klopp and Guardiola scream bloody murder over decisions, they intimidate refs and officials. Same way Fergie used to. Ten Hag meekly accepts the refs fecking us over.

PL refs do not deserve respect. Treat them like shit because that's the only thing to seem to respond to. Go mad at them on the touchline, take a yellow or red. Call them out in the media. Take the fine. The fans should make coming to Old Trafford a very unpleasant experience for them, scream bloody murder at them for decisions.

Or, crazy idea, they could just be consistent in their decisions?

Goes a lot to how their writing the rules, like handball, but ultimately they're just there to apply the rules. If the rules are so ambiguous and based on a subjective opinion, you're going to get mad inconsistencies.

I feel sorry for them to be honest, they're not doing themselves any favours, but being a cnut to officials isn't a solution.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Someone explain to me the difference between the handball decision today, and this (by the very same player):

Also, didn't VAR rule this one out straight away? I can't remember if the ref was asked to check the pitch side monitor.