I don't understand why some people dislike the var that much when the problem is really the quality of the referees.
Do we get to know who votes yes or no or is it a secret voting?
I didn't say their quality dropped, I'm saying the issues that happen now are their fault, not VAR. VAR is just a video on a screen, it's the man that makes the decisions. How on earth is adding another tool setting them up to fail?Of course the problem isn't the quality of the referees. That's such an inane argument. The people who hate VAR can remember watching the game before VAR and there's absolutely no rational reason for the quality of referees to suddenly nosedive at the exact same time that VAR is introduced. The referees are as good/bad as they've always been but VAR is putting their decisions under more scrutiny than ever before, in front of an audience that will never be happy with their decisions.
I must have made this point hundreds of times by know but look at every single thread about every controversial decision discussed on here, going back to the origins of this website. We never achieve consensus. There are always differences of opinion. And that's after days of back and forth, with unlimited time to review footage. So why on earth would we expect referees to come up with decisions that keep all of us happy, in the space of a few seconds?!? The issue isn't bad refereeing, it's a system that sets them up to fail.
Still amazing to see people that still don't see that it's the officials are the main problem.
It's been obvious from day one that they're either so poor that they're too incompetent to use it (possible) or they're deliberately sabotaging the use of it. To the best of my knowledge there's nowhere near the levels of issues with the use of VAR in other top leagues
It nosedived before VAR. Which was a large part of the argument to introduce VAR. I think referee's, particularly in england, were drastically better in the 90's.Of course the problem isn't the quality of the referees. That's such an inane argument. The people who hate VAR can remember watching the game before VAR and there's absolutely no rational reason for the quality of referees to suddenly nosedive at the exact same time that VAR is introduced. Bit of a coincidence, right?!? The referees are as good/bad as they've always been but VAR is putting their decisions under more scrutiny than ever before, in front of an audience that will never be happy with their decisions.
I must have made this point hundreds of times by know but look at every single thread about every controversial decision discussed on here, going back to the origins of this website. We never achieve consensus. There are always differences of opinion. And that's after days of back and forth, with unlimited time to review footage. So why on earth would we expect referees to come up with decisions that keep all of us happy, in the space of a few seconds?!? The issue isn't bad refereeing, it's a system that sets them up to fail.
I didn't say their quality dropped, I'm saying the issues that happen now are their fault, not VAR. VAR is just a video on a screen, it's the man that makes the decisions. How on earth is adding another tool setting them up to fail?
It nosedived before VAR. Which was a large part of the argument to introduce VAR. I think referee's, particularly in england, were drastically better in the 90's.
Its just so much less disruptive in pretty much every other league in europe.
Football fans didn't accept human error before var. They don't accept it now. The radical change is that the refs have can watch replays to make better decisions. If they don't, they're the problem, not the technology.Because it’s changed from a situation where we accept human error to one where that is no longer acceptable. It’s a radical change.
It nosedived before VAR. Which was a large part of the argument to introduce VAR. I think referee's, particularly in england, were drastically better in the 90's.
Its just so much less disruptive in pretty much every other league in europe.
Instant replays aren't that recent. They were there in the 90's. Multiple angles aren't even recent, i'd say it was pretty common in the early 2000's. Maybe i should go back and watch some of Collina's matches but i'm pretty certain he'll still be miles and miles ahead of the current crop.That just isn’t plausible. The referees are miles fitter, always closer to the action and better trained than ever before. The big difference between now and the 90s is the existence of super slo mo replays, from more different angles, analysed over and over again on social media. No wonder the referees seem much worse. It’s a false perception though.
"There are many reasons it's shit, but the main reason for me is that it's being run by people who look at the shirt and worry about the narrative more than they judge the situation in isolation on its merits."
Sorry but how does car affect this? With or without var this will remain the same.
Exactly - they now have all possible means available to them to make correct decisions and they still can't do it. Gordon's non-penalty from last night is another good example. Completely understandable that the ref misses it in real time, I did too, but then on the replay you clearly see the trip - and for some entirely unknown reason it wasn't overturned. Same happened with the 3rd Forest penalty claim against Everton - we can all see what happened on the replay and yet VAR decides its not a foul. I don't know how you can train out that level of utter incompetence.Football fans didn't accept human error before var. They don't accept it now. The radical change is that the refs have can watch replays to make better decisions. If they don't, they're the problem, not the technology.
Football fans didn't accept human error before var. They don't accept it now. The radical change is that the refs have can watch replays to make better decisions. If they don't, they're the problem, not the technology.
I guess we've had different experiences with football fans in general then.Yeah they did. This fan did. In fact I’d say a silent majority did. There was an extremely vocal minority who were never happy, of course. Goes without saying that the introduction of VAR hasn’t shut them up. Despite the fact that, ironically, it was largely introduced to appease them. All it’s done is shifted their narrative from incompetence to corruption.
What are the downsides?So why put up with the downsides of VAR?
What are the downsides?
Well my point is that there are no real problems with VAR, only with the referees. VAR works exactly as it should.I don't even know how to answer this.
Well my point is that there are no real problems with VAR, only with the referees. VAR works exactly as it should.
You think United is going to vote in favor of scrapping VAR ?Liverpool support VAR’s continued use in the Premier League next season, of course they do...
We have lost 20+ points because of referees and VAR. I don’t know why people love to forget that.Wolves being fecked over by VAR again.
They've been one of the clubs on the end of some of the worst VAR decisions, can see why they'd want rid of it.
This is precisely the problem and can be immediately fixed by directing var to review ALL incidents that I mentioned in a previous post.Increases any potential bias. They can pick and choose what they review and direct the narrative. It’s shit.
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Most clubs should. It's a load of bollix that has added nothing game, bring back human errors with refs and the engagement on the bar stools about their decisions.You think United is going to vote in favor of scrapping VAR ?
Apart from you can't celebrate a goal any more and over the top stoppages to see if someone is offside by a toenail.There's nothing wrong with VAR
They arrest you if you celebrate a goalApart from you can't celebrate a goal any more and over the top stoppages to see if someone is offside by a toenail.
I can't believe you're a real person. Nice try AI bot !Most clubs should. It's a load of bollix that has added nothing game, bring back human errors with refs and the engagement on the bar stools about their decisions.
Knock yourself out kid on what you want to believeI can't believe you're a real person. Nice try AI bot !
That is definitely true, everything is a conspiracy now, but fans at matches were vocal, "who's the bstard in the black" and similar was heard at every match at some point, the difference then it there wasn't social media to rant on and forums like this weren't readily available for everyone, also the rules have changed quite a bit as well as being stricter. and a lot of modern day fans don't understad half of them!Yeah they did. This fan did. In fact I’d say a silent majority did. There was an extremely vocal minority who were never happy, of course. Goes without saying that the introduction of VAR hasn’t shut them up. Despite the fact that, ironically, it was largely introduced to appease them. All it’s done is shifted their narrative from incompetence to corruption.,
The last paragraph there is spot on, if the ref is told what you say then he's thinking I just fecked up and almost always reverses the decision, he should be told, watch the replay and make his own judgementI did shit on the officals when posting earlier and I don't think we have a good standard in England currently.
The way VAR is used, and the implementation of it is another factor for me too. The thing is, I haven't got any solutions that would make VAR completely satisfactory to me either.
Not a fan of clear and obvious, whether that's VAR at the time or the VAR independent review panel afterwards. What is clear and obvious to one person isn't to another and the threshold is all a bit murky.
In many ways I'd rather they think in terms of, "On balance, was that a penalty or not? Go and take a look at it.", instead of, "is it clear and obvious that you got the initial decision wrong?" There's an absolutely huge drawback to changing it to that though. The referee would be at his screen much more often, and it would disrupt the flow of the game more than it is currently, and it's bad now.
Makes me wonder if they should scrap VAR altogether.
From some of the audio releases of the VAR discussions released I'm not sure I like some of the things I've heard them saying either. Was watching one recently where they said "I'm going to show you a tackle, that is in my opinion serious foul play and a penalty kick". I know on-field decisions being reversed are currently rare, but maybe that sort of language puts pressure on the referee to do so the times they actually are called to screen? Perhaps they could just tell the referee they've got something they want him to look at without offering an opinion of their own? Only a minor quibble with that one.