If you come in that high with studs up you're always risking getting a red. It's a stupid challenge first and foremost.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Its crazy how that wasnt given when you think about what Rodri got a penalty for at Old Trafford.
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Took me to the reverse angle to even work out who committed the foul. Thought it was the player in blue catching the guy on the ground similar to pogba against arse a few years ago
Compare that to the ndougie one in the spurs chelsea game that wasn't given a red. It was a 2 footed lunge in the air. Neither made contact but it was a leg breaker if he caught sterling.
Seriously though, why is the quality of officiating so shit? Every fan of every team can agree that, it’s beyond a joke. We need investigations into these referees.
To call that serious foul play takes an unbelievable stretch.
It's kind of similar to the Rashford one in that it ticks a lot of boxes for serious foul play, but the crucial one that should rule it out is that there is barely any intensity in the challenge. Just like the random Kobenhavn player, there was no reaction from anyone on the pitch, and the player completed the game without any issues.
Contrast that to Morgan Gibbs-White charging around like a lunatic with his arms flailing about before he crunches into Evans. The force of that tackle is incomparable to Calvert-Lewin basically hooking around the ball, and yet it is not considered by VAR. Gibbs-White's challenge on McTominay was also in essence a scissor tackle, which are far more likely to cause injury. The guy got a yellow.
It's kind of similar to the Rashford one in that it ticks a lot of boxes for serious foul play, but the crucial one that should rule it out is that there is barely any intensity in the challenge. Just like the random Kobenhavn player, there was no reaction from anyone on the pitch, and the player completed the game without any issues.
Contrast that to Morgan Gibbs-White charging around like a lunatic with his arms flailing about before he crunches into Evans. The force of that tackle is incomparable to Calvert-Lewin basically hooking around the ball, and yet it is not considered by VAR. Gibbs-White's challenge on McTominay was also in essence a scissor tackle, which are far more likely to cause injury. The guy got a yellow.
We need to make a formal complaint to the FA now like Liverpool and Arsenal have done. It's a joke that for the past month we have had decision after decision decide the fate of our games and VAR is at the head of them making bad decision after bad decision.
Every team should. The refs are shocking and every team every week should lodge official complaints until something is done.
Was it very little force in the tackle? I have only seen a replay of the VAR call in slow-motion and it looks a clear red. Clyne pulls out of the tackle which is the only reason DCL hasn't caught him more. He's not in control of the tackle and is endangering another player. Potential leg-breaker if Clyne doesn't minimize the contact. It should not be judged based on the outcome of the tackle.
Might as well ban the slide tackle.
That's why I asked if it was very little force in the tackle, so was it? What would happen if DCL's straight legged shin-high tackle hits a planted leg? (Which only doesn't happen because Clyne minimizes the contact in the last second)
Maybe you should just watch it not in slow mo.
No idea why you're making up a situation that hasn't happened.
I agree.
However, this isn't the practice the refs have been following all season, where they've more or less only looked at where the studs end up. Nketiahs tackle attempt on the Tottenham goalkeeper was about 5 times worse than this. Havertz in the newcastle match. Kovacic on Ødegaard? It's a bit weird to go from that and suddenly concluding that DCL's tackle is serious foul play
Maybe you should just watch it not in slow mo.
No idea why you're making up a situation that hasn't happened.
Because that's how the referee's judge the situation. It's not judged based on the outcome of the tackle. You should probably learn the rules
Maybe you should just watch it not in slow mo.
No idea why you're making up a situation that hasn't happened.
The point is that serious foul play takes into consideration if you are endangering the safety of the opponent or not, and it's fairly obvious that in DCL's case it's fine fecking margins between barely missing the opponent and hitting him straight on, we're talking a few cm's.. It's a bit like drunk driving and arguing you shouldn't be punished because you didn't end up in a crash.
I agree with you. It's a major issue that it's zero consistency. Makes it difficult for the players and also creates discussion when fans and pundits don't know/understand the rules.
Because that's how the referee's judge the situation. It's not judged based on the outcome of the tackle. You should probably learn the rules
1. If you watch the incident not in slow mo you'll see that Clyne doesn't pull out of the tackle at the last second.
2. You'll see there is no excessive force.
3. You'll see DCL wins the ball cleanly.
It's an absolutely nonsense decision.
Bizarre analogy to make. Would only make sense if the tackle was reckless, which it wasn't.
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How so? you just quoted a tweet highlighting that DCL missed the opponent, as it's some sort of excuse, It's irrelevant. DCL is cm's away from planting his studs halfway up Clynes leg but due to pure coincidence he missed.
The problem is that the referees seem to be completely incapable of applying that logic consistently, as shown by the amount of nasty tackles this season where the player has received only a yellow card on the basis that he missed the opponent.
Explained why. Because it's not reckless. There is no excessive force and it's a clean tackle. Choosing to drink drive is a reckless decision, this tackle was not.
It's weird to look at Udogies two-footed lunge at Sterling, where he came in with more force, and how VAR upheld the decision of a yellow card, only to move over to the DCL tackle and see VAR recommend a red card.
It's a reckless decision to jump in with your foot in such a height that if you do connect with the opponents, it's halfway up his leg with the potential to cause serious injury. The tip of his boot is just below Clyne's kneecap...You can also quite clearly see that DCL connects with him, just enough to the side that the boot slides off so that all the force isn't on Clyne's leg.
Come on. It's by no definition whatsoever a clean tackle, and excessive force is a consideration and not a criteria.
1. I have and Clyne does minimize the contact.
2. Again, you don't know the rules
It does not have to be excessive force for it to be deemed a red card offence.3. Does not matter since he is deemed to be endangering the safety of an opponent.
Just answer the question, what would have happened if his straight legged shin-high tackle hit Clyne's planted leg? (Which was seconds from happening)
It doesn't have any potential to cause serious injury or endanger the safety of the opponent because there is no excessive force or intensity behind the studs up.
If I kick you as hard as I can in the leg with my foot or put my foot on your leg with the lightest touch with studs, which endangers you more? Clearly the former.
1. I have and Clyne does minimize the contact.
2. Again, you don't know the rules
3. Does not matter since he is deemed to be endangering the safety of an opponent.
Just answer the question, what would have happened if his straight legged shin-high tackle hit Clyne's planted leg? (Which was seconds from happening)
He doesn't endanger the safety of the opponent though as there is no excessive force or intensity in the tackle.
I doubt much would have happened due to the minimal force in the challenge. Excessive force has to be used in conjunction with endangering safety as with a tackle like this.
Most people think it was a fair and fine tackle. Including those on the pitch of the opposition team. I don't really know anyone else aside from you two that thinks it was a red.
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You’re inventing scenarios. Calvin isn’t standing still, he’s running (albeit from short distance) to reach the ball ahead of Clyne and there’s enough intensity for him to slide, so obviously it’s going to have the potential to cause serious injury if his foot is 2-3 cm further to the right and Clynes leg is what takes the force from a moving Calvin. How Clyne plants his leg is a coincidence, Calvin barely missing him is a coincidence, going into a sliding tackle with your foot at such a height that the tip of your toe is at kneecap level isn’t.
This, along with tackles like Nketiah’s, Havertz, Udogie on Sterling, Kovacic on Ødegaard, should be red cards
Just because there's enough intensity to slide it doesn't mean there is enough intensity in the challenge or force in it, hence why there is little to no follow through from DCL and he basically stops where the tackle is made. He doesn't go through the player. It's a fair and clean tackle. We will have to agree to disagree as we obviously see it completely differently.
It's a red card for me. You shouldn't have to actually break a players leg to be sent off and that tackle was high enough to cause harm if it connected fully.
I'd probably call it harsh if a free kick was given for that.
Just look at the reaction:
Vs
To me they are both not red cards.
Vs
To me they are both not red cards.
Yeah
For me: It’s fine that he doesn’t lunge in but there’s enough intensity in the tackle for him to slide off Clyne’s leg, and he doesn’t instantly stop either (which would be impressive, given that he’s jumping forward) The fact is that he jumps in with his foot far too high, and if Calvin hits Clyne slightly more to the right he’s planting his studs straight onto his leg halfway up, which means the force in the tackle will be planted there. He doesn’t really have to jump in with more pace in order for a tackle like that to cause serious injury.
I think it’s weird that the VAR thinks this is a red card, considering the stuff we’ve seen this season escaping with only a yellow, but overall i think these are the types of tackles that should be punished with red cards.
I almost felt sorry for you yesterday. It is as wrong as it can be. But we have been on wrong side of this pretty much whole year and couple of seasons now so my emotions for other teams are almost down to zero.
That red card is what I call ghost decisions. Just made up. For example, how is that more dangerous foul than Martinez going 100km/h on Rashford or some tackles that we've seen unpunished? I'm not saying that one should be red either. Suddenly, there are teams that are not allowed to tackle anymore of danger getting red carded. Football rules are just one big joke now. We lost against ManCity because of penalty that was less holding than in the picture you posted. Something that happens on every corner. Liverpool got two made up penalties against Newcastle for lot less. What is wierd is that it isn't getting any better.
When it comes to statements I hope one day that my team is going to defend itself. Put out official statements and call them out. Let manager go crazy on press conferance just answering questions about that. Demand that some referees never get a game involving us. Right now, TheFA and PGMOL will not do anything for transparency. That one is clear as day.
I expected Udogie to be sent off for that but I think what saved him was that his feet were low and he won all of the ball and took none of Sterling.
Calvert-Lewin's had less force and was one footed but his foot was high and does connect with Clyne. I don't like it being a red but that's the age we live in.
The only dubious decision out of those three was the red card.
Obviously wasn't a red card, but no one cared when it was Casemiro in a similar situation.
The penalty about was farcical, absolute desperation to claim that incident was a penalty, and the Hughes challenge wasn't malicious, just slightly mistimed and not really worthy of much more then a few kick.
The reason for the tweet is to showcase inconsistency in decision making by referees, not only throughout the season, but in the same bloody game.
Udogie took none of Sterling because Sterling saw him flying in and pulled out, also it’s not a criteria to actually hit the opponent, it was fine margins.. Udogies feet were «low» in the sense that he lunged in more downard, but if he’d connected with sterling it would’ve been ankle height. Absolutely mental decision not to recommend a red card.
It’s a scandalous decision (the DCL one). I’m glad Dyche and the pundits are starting to talk about the slowmotion as the culprit because that is a major contributing factor in these dreadful decisions and I’m amazed that the referees don’t grasp that. Ban slo-mo in the VAR room and you’ll see much fewer of these non-existant red cards.
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Can you think of any other example though where a player has been sent off for winning all of the ball and taking none of the opponent? You routinely see yellows for it and you see reds where a player has won the ball initially before making contact with the player but I can't recall reds being given when a player hasn't even touched the other.
Slow-motion and freeze-frames have been a hindrance rather than a help ever since VAR was introduced. Five years down the line and they still haven't got that. Same applies for handballs. The refs aren't savvy enough to assess the entirely new body of evidence in a different way than they do in real-time action. They need re-educated.
I’m pretty sure Kompany got sent off for a tackle on Nani that Nani jumped over.
I agree with you. Neither are red card tackles, both could injure someone but so could lots of tackles as football is a contact sport. The difference is ridiculous though. Will Stephen Warnock be applying the same logic to this? Dermott Gallagher certainly won’t.
On the flip side I can see why BOTH were given as reds. I just don’t agree that they should but it’s not as if DCL wasn’t extremely high and potentially dangerous, clipping the player while going for the ball, whereas Casemiro actually tackled the ball and rolled into the player afterwards.