Our coaching staff should instruct our players to shoot at players' hands in european games. Amazing that's given as a pen, the guy literally heads the ball at Eriksen who is standing half a meter away
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Watch it back full speed
I'd argue the opposite though, because up until now, every revision to offside has been to prevent harsh restrictions on the attacking team.
The use of VAR is not inkeeping with that, especially when you consider that it was generally understood that attackers should have the advantage in close calls.
Also, it was a hangover from those older games. There's plenty of documentation of the early laws proving as much. The first offside rule was any player on the attacking team ahead of the ball, location on the pitch and position of opposition players be damned.
Do you really need a answer for that? Pretty much obvious when you look at whole game how we were treated.
I am fine with so many jarring aspects of the modern game, I can accept them all. But VAR feels like the most destructive component to modern football. It creates a sense of powerlessness to be on the wrong end of a bad VAR call because it is still insisted on as providing an objective enforcement of the game's laws.
We have to dilute our celebration of goals and their confirmation comes only as relief rather than elation.
Utterly horrible element of the game, and all for what, a couple of percentage points of 'more accurate' decision making?
We have to dilute our celebration of goals and their confirmation comes only as relief rather than elation.
Utterly horrible element of the game, and all for what, a couple of percentage points of 'more accurate' decision making?
You’re using too much hindsight. They didn’t care about attacking play, it was a rough man’s game that used big numbers 9s that got into battles with the CBs. Few attackers even ran in behind for 90 percent of football history. If you were a tricky winger or showed any sort of skill you were hacked down and laughed at by the ref because you deserved it.
If anybody cared about attackers or attacking play then the likes of the back pass rule wouldn’t have survived for so long
Football is just fecked, different rules in every competition. Too many grey areas. Laws and rules are being changed by men in suits who have never played the game.
in defence of the referees they are trying to follow what they are being instructed too.
in defence of the referees they are trying to follow what they are being instructed too.
Upamecano is heading the ball down towards his hand, Eriksen doesn't have time to react and as the ball hits his hand he moves toward the ball to try stop it with his shoulder. Due to that, the slowmo footage does feel like Erikson is purposefully moving his body around, which indicates he had enough time to think and the ball does hit his hand. He just didn't have enough time to move his hand before it hit him.Eriksen? Yes it was:
For the purposes of the handball, that's around shoulder height.
In real time you just wont react quick enough and his late reaction comes off as unintentionally guilty by trying to stop the ball. If the ball hit his hand and went back into Upamecano instead of above his shoulder no way they would need to review that. The ref just ruled on that last shoulder reaction I think. Like he thought Erikson went for it and missed.
They desperately need to come up with some coherency between the written rules and how to apply them. They aren't sure what to look for. Still it's up to the ref to have a look and see what it feels like, might as well then just go with the first guess, why guess twice it's still just guessing.
To be honest, hitting a shot at players and hoping for a handball is likely to become a legitimate attacking tactic. Football is a low scoring sport (ironic it’s said tonight) so the penalty is supposed to be for something which should be reasonably grave. The fact that it is given for something as inoffensive and innocuous as that “handball” is simply ridiculous and I’m surprised how this hasn’t become a bigger issue. These handballs and marginal armpit offsides are the elements of VAR which are technically killing the joy out of the game. Offside is objective and can’t really have any solutions in the VAR era but this handball nonsense needs to end.
Exactly this. Feels like they are looking for any excuse to see if they can somehow deny us.
logic is dead. That never ever should be a penalty, but it is what it is. Unbelievable gut punch right after Hojlunds goal and it pretty much felt like game over after that (before that chaotic finish at least).
It’s crazy. I was watching a championship game yesterday and I swear to you that if you had no real interest in who wins, then the sport is so much better without VAR. Player makes a run and assistant immediately decides whether he is offside or not and game goes on. The elation when the goal is scored is next level because you know that it is final. Now I just sit there and wait for this guy to look at 50 angles and then apply the rules in vague ways and then just accept what they do. Pathetic
Or course they care about attacking play. The whole point of the game is to score goals to determine the winner. Simple long ball or kick and rush tactics don't change that fact, nor do heavy tackles on flair players.
The back pass rule change is basically another example of revisions to laws to encourage attacking play and goal scoring opportunities.
People like to sit on a "football existed before the Premier League" high-horse at times, but ultimately, it wasn't until the 90s that we really saw the game being properly modernised for the better.
Were you complaining about the one given in the FA cup final?
In the modern era that's a penalty as enough distance and Eriksen dosen't have his hands by his side.
No because it was my team that benefited. Still doesn't make it right though
Have they changed the directive since June though? If that was given back then Eriksen was always going to be given and countless others in many other games not involving Man. United.
You're not understanding what I'm saying.
It hasn't changed, but I'm saying it needs to, as its ridiculous. Until it changes, I'd advise players to actively shoot/head at players' hands and get a soft penalty.
They're not always given though if it's deemed very short range....Romero.
Just one of those situations where Eriksen didn't think in time to put his hands behind his back. Defenders get criticised for that but it dosen't half save a lot of hassle.
ng the highlights. Definitely should have been a pen on Hojlund. Even Davies knew it. His knee hit his lower back before he got the ball from behind. He was bricking it.Spot on.
It’s an abomination. The worst thing to happen to football in my 40 years watching the sport. How the feck can anyone get behind a change to the game which makes it so obviously less enjoyable to watch? Absolute madness.
They're not always given though if it's deemed very short range....Romero.
Just one of those situations where Eriksen didn't think in time to put his hands behind his back. Defenders get criticised for that but it dosen't half save a lot of hassle.
If I remember correctly, Romero was even further away from the ball than Eriksen today. That's the frustrating part.
These stupid handballs get given all the time in Europe unfortunately.
Saw an even worse one get given in Dortmund’s favour in the Bundesliga about a week or two ago. The handball rule in Europe is basically a penalty if it hits a hand. Distance from the ball or accidental don’t come into it. I knew it would be given as soon as I saw the replay.
Saw an even worse one get given in Dortmund’s favour in the Bundesliga about a week or two ago. The handball rule in Europe is basically a penalty if it hits a hand. Distance from the ball or accidental don’t come into it. I knew it would be given as soon as I saw the replay.
Grealish had his arm above his head. The fact that you're equating those two shows you're either dumb or dishonest. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, but arm above head is specifically noted in the guidelines as "rarely natural".
But that's the exact thing. Every penalty that we get is retrospectively seen as controversial for some reason, but you'll never see anyone complain about the last-second penalty Brighton received against us when Luke Shaw's arm was above his head and made contact with the ball.
So somehow we have the following: Tonight's pen everyone agrees pen was the right decision, the one against Spurs everyone agrees no pen was the right decision due to proximity, Grealish handball is seen as the wrong call because it's unintentional but Shaw's handball against Brighton is the correct decision because his hand is above head height. Go figure.
Didn't every single other fan say it was never a penalty?
But the Eriksen one is penalty enough?
Can anyone link me to the handball law that is used in the Champions League? Thanks. I'd love to see how VAR arrived at that decision, if they just followed the law then fair enough.
There is absolutely zero consistancy with pen shouts for handball like the Romero one in our game against Spurs which they said wasnt given as its too close but a week later a City player kicks the ball against the hand of a Sheff Utd player who is right in front of him and a penalty is given.
On balance that probably should've been a pen given the endless Twitter comparisons I'm seeing (having not watched tonight's game). I think given it's just been the way with handball for many seasons now in the box it's far more of a shock when those type of incidents are not given, especially if the defensive player is upright rather than sliding in on the ground.
Wasn't there a harsher call in the Dortmund game last night so looks like that's the standard in the CL this season.
If Manchester United player touches ball with hand, give penalty.
We were fecked over in Europe last season too when a ball deflected off Martinez's thigh onto his arm, which is also specifically noted as an extenuating factor, yet VAR felt they had to intervene and give Sociedad the win.
Wasn't Grealish right next to whoever headed it? I can't really remember and tbh as said below I'm just not shocked when those are given however harsh it looks. Shaw one was basically watching a corner come in from 15 yards away and under no physical pressure from anyone else just decides to lift his hand which was just a bizarre action considering he'd have a very good game but loads of defenders lose their bearings like that, Lewis Dunk had done the exact same thing in the game Brighton played after the cup SF at Forest.
I assume distance and pace of shot is still taken into account.
It is a pen by current interpretation but I hate it. Played a lot as a defender over the years and some of the pens given are just absurdly soft, just instinctively I can never see that as a pen.
Don't think the Grealish one was a pen either.
Don't think the Grealish one was a pen either.
Did anyone see the one given against Dortmund? It was far worse. Our one was never being overturned.
I don't think I'll ever get over how bad that decision was
But only in the CL not in the PL, of course.
Just seen the arsenal highlights. Wow. United got shafted today.
About as close as Eriksen was today (and closer than Romero was when proximity was claimed to be the reason why it wasn't given). But like I said, arm above head is specifically mentioned as "rarely natural" in terms of body position. You can also see from the images posted that in the short time that the ball travels from the header the arm goes from shoulder-height to above head height, so there's a movement towards the ball too.
For me, the Grealish pen is a stonewall pen under the current guidelines (arm above head). You can argue about the guidelines being dumb, but they're in place and in that context it's an obvious pen. But it's telling that in the collective consciousness (you're not the only one), it's seen as a controversial call whereas another pen that's just as obvious for the same reason according to the guidelines (arm above head) is totally the right decision according to everyone.
And now we're seeing it again with all the pundits claiming that the Romero one is not a penalty due to proximity, and then in the same breath you get people (at least on Swedish TV) saying that the Eriksen one is the correct decision despite the proximity factor and the arm not being elevated above head height. You can even see Kim behind Eriksen with his arm in a similar position as he's running/turning towards the ball. What are the odds that two players in the same image would simultaneously take up unnatural arm positions? Could it actually be that the arm is "justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation" (using the rule book's wording here)? And if it could be seen as a justifiable position, what actual criterion has been fulfilled to intervene tonight and give a penalty against Eriksen? It's not deliberate with a hand movement towards the ball as it comes at him, the body hasn't been made unnaturally bigger, and it's not in a position above the head which is rarely seen as natural. So what exactly has prompted the VAR to get in there and recommend a reversal of the on-field call?
Still don't understand why the Pellistri incident wasn't looked at, it was an absolute 100% pen of I ever saw one.
How is Zinchenko at 1-0 Arsenal not a penalty but Eriksen is?
When are we going to start lodging complaints? Is that 4 games this season we've been totally screwed over by VAR?
were you silent when we lost to Tottenham because of a more obvious penalty than todays?
Exactly. That’s extremely inconsistent. The commentators emphasised that the rules are different in Europe, but then you see the Zinchenko incident and all logic goes out the window.