VAR and Refs | General Discussion

Zlatan 7 said:
That seemed miles offside and then they went backwards and forwards on where the ball ‘left’ the passers foot untill he was onside. I don’t even trust the offsides anymore
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That was funny. Offside, offside, offside, but there is no offside.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
That seemed miles offside and then they went backwards and forwards on where the ball ‘left’ the passers foot untill he was onside. I don’t even trust the offsides anymore
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oh leave off. they needed to check with klopp as to when he thought the ball was released. not everything needs to be this great, big conspiracy.
 
rimaldo said:
oh leave off. they needed to check with klopp as to when he thought the ball was released. not everything needs to be this great, big conspiracy.
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Fairpoint, and I made a mistake anyway, it’s when it touches the passes foot not leaves, I think. I did see old Juergen in the ear of the fourth official though so maybe he was advising them
 
Anustart89 said:
But just like attempted murder is a different crime from murder that carries a different punishment, attempted stopping of a promising attack is a different rule which isn’t punished with a yellow card.
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Isn’t punished with a yellow card according to who?

The poster was claiming a player shouldn’t be carded where he commits a foul in an attempt to stop a counter and fails to do so.

Attempt or success it’s rightly a yellow card just as with attempt or success in the analogy it’s a prison sentence. Anything else is just being pedantic.
 
McTerminator said:
Isn’t punished with a yellow card according to who?

The poster was claiming a player shouldn’t be carded where he commits a foul in an attempt to stop a counter and fails to do so.

Attempt or success it’s rightly a yellow card just as with attempt or success in the analogy it’s a prison sentence. Anything else is just being pedantic.
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According to the laws of the game. The laws of the game say that it is only a yellow card if you interfere with or stop a promising attack. Not if you attempt do so regardless of success or not. The tweet I posted previously also clearly says that if a referee gives an advantage and doesn't deem that the player has interfered with or stopped the promising attack then he is not to be yellow carded.

All other interpretations are based only on people's feelings and not the laws of the game, but if you're going to keep arguing about it then I can't do anything for you because you're obviously ignoring my repeated posts about what the laws of the game say about this.

My murder example still is relevant, and I thought the point I was making was obvious. I'll spell it out once more. If murder carries a sentence of 10-20 years in prison and attempted murder carries 3-9 years (just an example, not a lawyer) you can't give someone that's guilty of attempted murder 15 years because it's not on the scale of the punishments. In the same vein, if attempting to stop an attack (and failing) isn't something that is a yellow card then you can't just give it because you feel like he's attempted something because there's no support in the laws of the game for doing such a thing. I mean, if you really hate Casemiro and really want to book him you can invent a reason like "I thought the tackle used excessive force or was reckless etc", but that's not what the posters that have been claiming that Casemiro's been sent off have been claiming.

I'm peacing out of this discussion anyway because I've made my point about what the law says and we seem to have reached a point where we're just arguing in circles.
 
Anustart89 said:
According to the laws of the game. The laws of the game say that it is only a yellow card if you interfere with or stop a promising attack. Not if you attempt do so regardless of success or not. The tweet I posted previously also clearly says that if a referee gives an advantage and doesn't deem that the player has interfered with or stopped the promising attack then he is not to be yellow carded.

All other interpretations are based only on people's feelings and not the laws of the game, but if you're going to keep arguing about it then I can't do anything for you because you're obviously ignoring my repeated posts about what the laws of the game say about this.

My murder example still is relevant, and I thought the point I was making was obvious. I'll spell it out once more. If murder carries a sentence of 10-20 years in prison and attempted murder carries 3-9 years (just an example, not a lawyer) you can't give someone that's guilty of attempted murder 15 years because it's not on the scale of the punishments. In the same vein, if attempting to stop an attack (and failing) isn't something that is a yellow card then you can't just give it because you feel like he's attempted something because there's no support in the laws of the game for doing such a thing. I mean, if you really hate Casemiro and really want to book him you can invent a reason like "I thought the tackle used excessive force or was reckless etc", but that's not what the posters that have been claiming that Casemiro's been sent off have been claiming.

I'm peacing out of this discussion anyway because I've made my point about what the law says and we seem to have reached a point where we're just arguing in circles.
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I think it’s because we are talking at cross purposes. You seem to be explaining what the law is. I don’t know if that’s correct or not but my point is that, if it is, then it clearly needs to be changed. A player trying to cheat by stopping a counterattack should be punished with a yellow card, even if they fail to delay the attack sufficiently. It’s exactly the same situation as a player getting booked for diving, despite the ref not giving a penalty.
 
Anustart89 said:
According to the laws of the game. The laws of the game say that it is only a yellow card if you interfere with or stop a promising attack. Not if you attempt do so regardless of success or not. The tweet I posted previously also clearly says that if a referee gives an advantage and doesn't deem that the player has interfered with or stopped the promising attack then he is not to be yellow carded.

All other interpretations are based only on people's feelings and not the laws of the game, but if you're going to keep arguing about it then I can't do anything for you because you're obviously ignoring my repeated posts about what the laws of the game say about this.

My murder example still is relevant, and I thought the point I was making was obvious. I'll spell it out once more. If murder carries a sentence of 10-20 years in prison and attempted murder carries 3-9 years (just an example, not a lawyer) you can't give someone that's guilty of attempted murder 15 years because it's not on the scale of the punishments. In the same vein, if attempting to stop an attack (and failing) isn't something that is a yellow card then you can't just give it because you feel like he's attempted something because there's no support in the laws of the game for doing such a thing. I mean, if you really hate Casemiro and really want to book him you can invent a reason like "I thought the tackle used excessive force or was reckless etc", but that's not what the posters that have been claiming that Casemiro's been sent off have been claiming.

I'm peacing out of this discussion anyway because I've made my point about what the law says and we seem to have reached a point where we're just arguing in circles.
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Appreciate you setting that out, must have missed your original posts and did not realise that the laws state it is not a yellow for a foul in that scenario.

In that case I disagree with the laws of the game, not you.
 
UTAretro said:
I am a level 2 referee, I am very familiar with the laws, but thank you for the links and your views!

The referee has two choices, play advantage that would lead to a goalscoring opportunity, or stop play and award a direct free-kick. If he felt the challenge was deserving of a second yellow card, he would assess whether the continuing attack was - in his view - a goalscoring opportunity. He deemed it was, so a second yellow card wasn’t given.

However; this is the law in practice, not on paper. Two yellow cards, for instance, can be given in the same phase of play for two separate yellow card offences. The referee would immediately stop play and produce both cards, then a red.

In this case, in my view, the referee didn’t afford an appropriate opportunity of goalscoring to not award a free-kick and a second yellow card.

The Antony incident is beyond question.
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The referee only has to decide whether the 'promising attack' was interfered with or stopped. Since the ball fell to a Brighton player who had an unopposed shot from 19-20 yards out I'd say his assessment was correct and that he was right not to give Casemiro a second yellow card for stopping a promising attack because the promising attack wasn't stopped. Unless you're arguing that the sliding tackle was reckless and deserved a yellow card on that basis, which would make absolutely no sense considering that Marriner (in the very same game, if you need reminding), didn't even blow the whistle for a foul for Caicedo's lunge on Shaw (shown first in the video below).

The Antony incident is a red card by the letter of the law because he clearly kicks out in frustration, but note that this entire situation happens because the referee doesn't deem the two incidents in the video below (from 40 seconds onwards) as fouls with 15 seconds separating the two incidents.
That doesn't excuse Antony's behaviour, but the ball should never have been in play at that point. It should've been restarted with either a penalty for United after a VAR intervention, a free kick for United (if contact was deemed to be outside the penalty area, which it doesn't look like) or a second free kick for United on Antony. Where's the PGMOL apology for not reviewing a potential penalty when Estupiñan clearly drags Rashford's arm back and prevents him from getting to the ball? Or is it fair game under the rules to pull a player's arm because he's racing ahead of you to the ball?

 
Shane88 said:
8 fecking fouls.

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It's hard not to imagine something dodgy might be going on with the amount of money bet on games. I'm sure that saved the betting companies a few quid tonight. There's no other real explanation for him not being carded.

I feel like referees get away with so much and need to have some of these decisions taken away from them. A similar system to basketball might not be the worst idea, 5 fouls and you're out of the game or something. Sick of the amount of fouls players get away with these days and it's all to do with maintaining the 'spectacle' over the sporting aspect.
 
Irrelevant to the outcome but that West Ham goal was offside and they've given it.
 
Pintu said:
How do you know that it was offside?
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Because his foot was past the defenders foot. Perhaps I should say looked offside. Everyone was surprised when it was given.
 
Newcastle getting away with murder again. Those Saudi envelopes are hefty.

Edit: It gets even more laughable. Marriner is the ref tonight. He was on VAR duty for Casemiro's red against Southampton.
 
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Shane88 said:
Newcastle getting away with murder again. Those Saudi envelopes are hefty.

Edit: It gets even more laughable. Marriner is the ref tonight. He was on VAR duty for Casemiro's red against Southampton.
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It's a joke an absolute fiasco this.
 
Shane88 said:
Newcastle getting away with murder again. Those Saudi envelopes are hefty.

Edit: It gets even more laughable. Marriner is the ref tonight. He was on VAR duty for Casemiro's red against Southampton.
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arthurka said:
It's a joke an absolute fiasco this.
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What happened? I am not watching the match. Any specific incident or general incompetence/corruption.
 
bludsucker said:
What happened? I am not watching the match. Any specific incident or general incompetence/corruption.
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Bruno G studs up challenge on a Leicester players knee only gets him a yellow. Missed the ball completely and left his studs on the knee for ages
 
bludsucker said:
What happened? I am not watching the match. Any specific incident or general incompetence/corruption.
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Guimares went into Soumare at thigh height, studs up and nowhere near the ball. Textbook dangerous play so he only got a yellow and Mariner on VAR did not upgrade it to red. If it had been Case it would have been upgraded to 1 year in jail.
 
For some time, I have given up on referees and VAR. It is just a failure from top to bottom. Nothing less. And when you can’t hear or see from their point of view there is no transparency whatsoever.
 
Ghostrider318 said:
Bruno G studs up challenge on a Leicester players knee only gets him a yellow. Missed the ball completely and left his studs on the knee for ages
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Gandalf said:
Guimares went into Soumare at thigh height, studs up and nowhere near the ball. Textbook dangerous play so he only got a yellow and Mariner on VAR did not upgrade it to red. If it had been Case it would have been upgraded to 1 year in jail.
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Thanks guys. Marriner was always a cnut. But he is proving to be even more of one this season. Always looking to screw us over.
 
Official procedure

Are studs up?

Yes

Is it a red card?

Oh 100%, but let's not get involved.

Wait! is it Casemiro?

Oh yeah, in that case, show a red card.
 
Gandalf said:
Guimares went into Soumare at thigh height, studs up and nowhere near the ball. Textbook dangerous play so he only got a yellow and Mariner on VAR did not upgrade it to red. If it had been Case it would have been upgraded to 1 year in jail.
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How they didnt think it was a red is crazy, he catches him high with his stoods and even has both feet off the floor at the point of contact

 
FFS it’s the 3rd time this season we have a player injured leaving the pitch on a stretcher because of a slide tackle from behind with the ref not even blowing the whistle for a foul!!!

Unbelievable and truly disgusting
 
Anywhere on the pitch if a player stands on another player's heel its a foul. Except if it's in the box and the player being stood on is on Man Utd's team. Then neither the ref or VAR will give anything. The amount of penalties we have been robbed off since Klopp cried about how many we were getting...
 
Zed is not dead said:
FFS it’s the 3rd time this season we have a player injured leaving the pitch on a stretcher because of a slide tackle from behind with the ref not even blowing the whistle for a foul!!!

Unbelievable and truly disgusting
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It was not a foul.

AWB makes that same tackle literally every game.
 
#07 said:
Anywhere on the pitch if a player stands on another player's heel its a foul. Except if it's in the box and the player being stood on is on Man Utd's team. Then neither the ref or VAR will give anything. The amount of penalties we have been robbed off since Klopp cried about how many we were getting...
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Never a pen in a million years. Bruno should be getting a bollocking for ruining that attack.
 
That's beyond absurd. You can't just decide that it isn't a pen because you don't want it to be.

If this wasn't supposed to be a foul, players should just do it all the time. Anytime the opposition has the ball, just fecking step on their achilles. Guaranteed to ruin every attack that ever takes place, not to mention 800% more injuries per season for everyone. Essentially puts an end to any actual play inside the box, and the only goals that ever get scored are setpieces or long shots because nothing else is possible when you can just step on a player's heels to instantaneously put an end to the attack.

Laughable. It takes a special level of delusion to think that's not a foul. Do you know the rules of football at all? Or is it just because it was Bruno?

The insane, irrational, spittle-spewing hate people have for Bruno is nothing short of despicable. Vile, disgusting mindset.
 
Any shootout experts on here? Last night Bono saved a pen and Anthony Taylor stopped the rebound with his feet at the edge of the 5 yard box. What if that ball had a backwards spin on it and was about to boomerang its way back towards goal? Should it have been retaken?
 
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