Absolutely, agreed.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Absolutely, agreed.
His fingers aren't extended and he didn't bounce it three times so completely accidentalWell, most obvious since...
Well, it’s not really unfixable though, is it?
It’s the ref in the bus and the bar he’s been given to adhere to which adds another layer of subjectivity to every call that’s the problem, isn’t it? For example, Marriner doesn’t give a yellow card for a studs up tackle with a straight leg on a Chelsea player and according to that VAR it’s not a clear and obvious error. Then the next day Casemiro studs someone with a bent leg after bouncing off the ball and the very same Marriner suddenly thinks that a yellow card is a clear and obvious error. In what world is that reasonable?
What we would want is for the main referee on the pitch to have a closer look at an incident where either he himself believes he might have missed something, and then deciding whether he feels the new evidence has changed his mind on the outcome (and not whether the initial outcome was a grave error), or a team is convinced the ref has made the wrong decision. This would put the ref under less pressure to change his mind than he is now because when a ref goes to the monitor, everyone knows their told them that they’ve made a big mistake. It would also ensure that the game is officiated according to the level the referee wants to set for that particular game.
There are a couple of ways to make this happen. Both include replacing the VAR with a video technician (they’re already there to assist the VAR, so you’d just kick the ref out of the bus), and then either have monitor checks being triggered by the referee himself who might want another look at a situation due to feeling he hasn’t seen the entire incident, or have monitor checks be triggered by challenges from the teams.
I doubt that the PGMOL are interested in either outcome though since they’re getting paid for sitting in that bus and doing a shite job.
I’m also fairly sure that those checks would take a shorter time than VAR deciding whether it was a clear and obvious mistake before then sending the ref over to have another look. The pen Newcastle conceded against Brentford the other week was preceded by the VAR watching 23 replays before then deciding that it was clear and obvious (however the feck he came to that conclusion after the 23rd replay but not the other 22 I’ll never understand) and then sending the ref over to the screen to have a look at it himself! If Brentford challenged that or the ref saw a guy on the ground it would’ve taken him 10 seconds to run over to the screen and we’d have a decision within a minute, instead of three-four minutes.
What an utter load of bollocks. Unless they mean minutes instead of matches.
Yeah, that’s bullshit.
For the Spurs game they class two as mistakes by the on field ref and only one from VAR.
Trying to manipulate their language to make it sound better. Trent's handball the other day isn't a VAR mistake, is it? Taps nose.
It is "mainly" fixable. Scrap clear and obvious. If a mistake is made fix it.
Exactly like rugby and runs fine!
Well, if all the decisions have been "right" according to the VAR protocol, and the outcome isn't what "football expects", which they so often refer to, and we have so many decisions where another decision would've been a better one then obviously the protocol is wrong.
The Brighton incident being talked about over and over is funny though because it's as if the collective consciousness has decided that Mitoma was basically kicked to the stratosphere whereas other incidents, like Weghorst being pelted with full power in the shin haven't been worthy of apologies. Every weekend we see actual leg-breakers, as in straight leg, studs up on planted leg of opponent, not being penalised with even yellows and there are no apologies for those incidents. Any proportionality principle would suggest that player safety should be higher on the agenda than a missed penalty.
And then we wonder why players keep flying into dangerous tackles and ending up injuring their opponents. It's because referees don't penalise them and someone getting away with a leg-breaker, achilles-snapper or ACL buster is less worthy of self-reflection from the PGMOL than a missed penalty.
The Brighton incident being talked about over and over is funny though because it's as if the collective consciousness has decided that Mitoma was basically kicked to the stratosphere whereas other incidents, like Weghorst being pelted with full power in the shin haven't been worthy of apologies. Every weekend we see actual leg-breakers, as in straight leg, studs up on planted leg of opponent, not being penalised with even yellows and there are no apologies for those incidents. Any proportionality principle would suggest that player safety should be higher on the agenda than a missed penalty.
And then we wonder why players keep flying into dangerous tackles and ending up injuring their opponents. It's because referees don't penalise them and someone getting away with a leg-breaker, achilles-snapper or ACL buster is less worthy of self-reflection from the PGMOL than a missed penalty.
Which is a) wrong and b) ignores one of the worst VAR consequences, which is the influence it has on the officials on the pitch. Who will obviously be much more likely to choose not to make marginal calls in the mistaken belief that VAR will intervene and make sure justice is done.
The focus on the foul on Mitoma also ignores the two shitty “handball” calls in that same fixture, as obviously nobody has any interest in correcting the steaming pile of bullshit foisted on us that is the VAR/handball combo.
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Actually it isn’t a VAR mistake, its a rule mistake. The handball rule is absolute bollocks imo. If it a handball when the goal scorer handles it then it should be a handball when the assist provider also handles it.
Absolute stupidity from Upemacano there
Was penalty.
This is why it will be same in the future. Never admit you are wrong and thats it. Never do changes that actually improves quality of referees and VAR.
How was the VAR check so quick on that disallowed Bayern goal? It looked really close to me and it would have took 2 or 3 minutes to check it in the Premier League.
Terrible decision that penalty, it bounced off his boot on to his arm
Semi automated offsides in the CL. Not the manually drawn shite in PL.
Complete misuse of VAR. The ref basically saw a still of the ball hitting the arm. If it counted for anything, you’d have to join the conspiracy theorists.
Turned the sport into a joke, no point getting invested in it anymore
Can’t see what qualifies as clear and obvious anymore.
These penalty decisions are fecking ridiculous. Blame VAR, blame the handball law, but good grief, what a shambles.
Indirect free kicks for handballs that aren’t deliberate or aren’t stopping a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Yeah but the issue people have isn't just with VAR. It's the standard of refereeing full stop. So if they only focus on VAR, they can ignore basic refereeing mistakes like that blatant handball.
And the only reason it goes on is because the ref knows there is VAR. If it's not a handball if it leads to a goal, then it is a handball if it doesn't lead to a goal, right? So how does the referee know if it will lead to a goal and thus, let the play continue? He doesn't, so it's absolutely ridiculous. But if VAR wasn't there, the ref blows for a handball. It's so so simple.
Once again the ref should blow for a handball as soon as TAA passes it to another player as the current handball rule doesn’t permit VAR to overturn the goal. If the ref missed it then fine mistakes happen and var should tell him. If he leaves it for var then it is his fault as he doesn’t know the rules.
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When you see what Casemiro gets booked for compared to that taking out of Sabitzer earlier.
VAR should intervene where clear simulation has led to a booking or free kick in opponents half. Both can be game / season changing decisions.
Exactly! Casemiro gets seriously shafted by referees. That wasn't a foul on Sabitzer, it was a deliberate assault and yet no card.
I'm not exactly saying that VAR has fecked this one up because it isn't a red card offence according to precedent. With that said, I think it's quite honestly ridiculous that fouls like the one committed by Martinelli against Southampton yesterday that is shown below are not red card offences.
To me, it's plain as day that this should constitute "dangerous play". With the way Bednarek lands, it wouldn't take much for this to lead to an absolutely horrific injury.
Martinelli isn't the first to get away with it either. I know Kane has done it a number of times before. I think it really needs to be a red card offence because the risks involved if this were to go wrong could lead not just to the end of a player's season but their entire career or even, God forbid, worse than that.
To me, it's plain as day that this should constitute "dangerous play". With the way Bednarek lands, it wouldn't take much for this to lead to an absolutely horrific injury.
Martinelli isn't the first to get away with it either. I know Kane has done it a number of times before. I think it really needs to be a red card offence because the risks involved if this were to go wrong could lead not just to the end of a player's season but their entire career or even, God forbid, worse than that.
Yeah I agree, they need to bring something in for when you make contact with a player who's in the air like that.
A lot of players do this. It happens all the time.
The weird thing is that this is actually a foul in rugby, which is a much more physical game. Taking a player in the air is an instant yellow card, but the punishment is worse because it is a 10 minute sin bin.
The thing is that there already is a rule written in the laws of the game that could easily make this a red card.
For some reason, overhead kicks are seen as such a part of the game that kicking someone in the head with the power intended to score a goal, ie not negligible, would never fall into that category with the refs. Neither would making someone spin in mid-air causing them to land on their neck. But god forbid you hold someone's shirt around the neck area or hit a non-planted leg with your studs. That's where the proper dangers to player safety are!
Now, I'm not an expert in referee logic, but I would say that a player's more likely to be seriously harmed if he suffers an intracranial bleeding or a broken neck than a broken foot or tibia.
Pawson was completely corrupt today, as he always is against us.
Brighton 17 fouls 1 booking.
United 13 fouls 3 bookings.
Ratios of 17:1 and 4:1.
Brighton 17 fouls 1 booking.
United 13 fouls 3 bookings.
Ratios of 17:1 and 4:1.
Pawson's an idiot. Allowed one team to press high and break up attacks early yet couldn't wait to book ours for things he let go down the other end.
Pawson was also the guy who did this
Pawson was also the guy who did this
The thing is stats sometimes don't show the story sometimes a team just commits more card worthy fouls.
This was not the case. Several instances that should've been textbook cards for Brighton
Yup. They inexplicably escaped a yellow when Rashford was taken out just as he was having a shot from the edge of the box. Then Mitoma made a worse and later challenge on de Gea than the one Casemiro was booked for and escaped a second yellow. Wan-Bissaka was held back down the wing for about four seconds and no yellow, a bunch of fouls in the middle third when we were breaking which weren't punished with yellows. Ultimately, it swung the game in Brighton's favour as they could keep breaking up our attacks with impunity, whereas Casemiro was completely neutered by his yellow and couldn't tackle due to the risk of getting sent off.
Why didn't VAR review Kulusevski foul at 27th minute for red card offense? High boot, stud up onto Newcastle player's scrotch. Doesn't look like he try to play the ball, let alone getting to the ball (the right one).
I honestly don't know what's going on. I don't want to sound RAWK-ish, but my God, refs can't be this incompetent. The amount of bullshit I've seen this season against United is gonna make up for an entire lifetime. Opposition players are getting away with murder, but we're getting booked for the slightest of touches. Casemiro is especially singled out, for some reason. This has taken a toll on the confidence of our players, too, it seems. They're very averse to tackling or getting engaged now. It's like we've been completely neutered.
And don't get me started on VAR. Honestly... what the feck? For supposedly the best league in the world, there's absolutely zero standard for refereeing or responsibility of any kind to explain their decisions and be held to standard. Instead, if a manager dares to question it, even if he is right, they get punished. Something's got to change.
And don't get me started on VAR. Honestly... what the feck? For supposedly the best league in the world, there's absolutely zero standard for refereeing or responsibility of any kind to explain their decisions and be held to standard. Instead, if a manager dares to question it, even if he is right, they get punished. Something's got to change.