Playing for dominant Pool side certainly flatter to deceive. Put the likes of Pique, Boateng, Varane and we won't see much of difference. Good player nonetheless.
Van Dijk revisited
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
Well said and completely right.
He's the root of the system. Without VVD, Liverpool are visibly worse.
They can get away with playing that high line and extremely attacking Full Back largely because of VVD.
Pique would be destroyed by fast attackers in transition in such a system, even in his peak.
Baresi, Desailly, Costacurta, Thuram, Ferrara, Stam, Nesta, Maldini, Carvalho, Terry, Ferdinand, Vidic, Pepe, Chiellini
I'm sure I'm forgetting like 5 world class defenders from italian sides in the 90s and early 00s
Van Dijk is good but he still has many peak years to provide if he wants to reach the level of some of these
He isn't even better in total (career wise) than currently playing CBs like Pepe and Chiellini, their peak was higher and they had a lot of longevity at the top as well
He is the best of this "current" generation but to be honest we are at a period of not many world class center backs
I'm sure I'm forgetting like 5 world class defenders from italian sides in the 90s and early 00s
Van Dijk is good but he still has many peak years to provide if he wants to reach the level of some of these
He isn't even better in total (career wise) than currently playing CBs like Pepe and Chiellini, their peak was higher and they had a lot of longevity at the top as well
He is the best of this "current" generation but to be honest we are at a period of not many world class center backs
Baresi, Desailly, Costacurta, Thuram, Ferrara, Stam, Nesta, Maldini, Carvalho, Terry, Ferdinand, Vidic, Pepe, Chiellini
I'm sure I'm forgetting like 5 world class defenders from italian sides in the 90s and early 00s
Van Dijk is good but he still has many peak years to provide if he wants to reach the level of some of these
He isn't even better in total (career wise) than currently playing CBs like Pepe and Chiellini, their peak was higher and they had a lot of longevity at the top as well
He is the best of this "current" generation but to be honest we are at a period of not many world class center backs
The likes of Pepe and Chiellini never had peaks as high don’t agree with that, they had better careers overall, but for example you wouldn’t have any of them finishing in top 5 B’allon d’or or winning player of the year in their respective countries.
Out of all the cbs you named probably only Ferdinand Thuram Stam Desailly Nesta Baresi could you say exhibited the all round qualities VVD had, in that they could play in ultra defensive setups with deep lines but also play in the more modern attacking setups that the likes of Klopp and Guardiola implement, I always give more credit to these type of Cbs when rating them.
You also forgot Ramos and Silva who I thin are two other cbs who had the all round ability to fit into any system I would rate those two higher than some of the names you mentioned also.
Baresi, Desailly, Costacurta, Thuram, Ferrara, Stam, Nesta, Maldini, Carvalho, Terry, Ferdinand, Vidic, Pepe, Chiellini
I'm sure I'm forgetting like 5 world class defenders from italian sides in the 90s and early 00s
Van Dijk is good but he still has many peak years to provide if he wants to reach the level of some of these
He isn't even better in total (career wise) than currently playing CBs like Pepe and Chiellini, their peak was higher and they had a lot of longevity at the top as well
He is the best of this "current" generation but to be honest we are at a period of not many world class center backs
From that list only Baresi and Nesta had a higher peak than VVD. Maldini only became a CB later on. Greatest defender ever though imo.
On another hand that highline protect him more than the other way around.
And Pique might even faster than what you think.
Is this the same Pepe that was in the Euro team of the year in 2008, 2012 and 2016? And being great in Real?
Pepe was good in Real's attacking teams and was also good in Portugal's reactionary bus parking. So?
And good luck getting close to the Ballon d'or with both Messi and Ronaldo at their prime just destroying everything in sight
Chielini was part of one of the best defenses of the last 10 years, he reached like what, 3 CL finals in quick succession? And italian leagues as well.
This old Chiellini of today isn't prime Chiellini.
He is a different kind of defender but I don't rate Van Dijk as better, at least not yet?
Van Dijk is good but we're seen what, 2 years of him?
What qualities does he have that make him better than those I mentioned?
When was he world class playing in a ultra defensive setup?
Dias also had a massive impact in City so... Dias is better than those as well?
I don't rate Ramos as good as all the others I mentioned as he had many defensive lapses often, he scores many important goals but as a defender I think the others are better as you need full reliability in a CB.
And Thiago Silva... he is also good but IMHO he was not tested week in week out in high rotation as others so I am unable to rate him from the few high stakes games he played.
Not fit to lace Martin Buchans boots.
Peak VVD is possibly top 5 greatest center back peak tbh. I think we tend to hate on him because he plays for the lowlife club.
What was going on with the marking on the goal yesterday
Lapse of judgment, happens to even the best of the best.
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Tbh, Virgil had a problem with defending against cut-back passes, that his weakness since first day he came to Liverpool until this day. A lot of teams know this fact and use this way to score against Liverpool.
Yesterday goal was not his fault 100 percents but I would say defending against cut-back passes isn’t his strength.
They're just generally a pain in the ass to defend against but you may be right, would love too see an in depth analysis of that.
Just wave your arse at him Virgil, that’ll do it.
Best PL centre back
Best PL centre back
Looking at it again, he had to try stop the cross whilst trying to cover Carvajal's overlap in case it gets slid to him, and got caught in 2 minds trying to do both jobs at once. He really needed Fabinho to come close down the cross so he could focus on Carvajal but Fabinho was just ambling lacking the necessary urgency.
Trent at the back post has a tough one between holding the line and allowing Vinicius to run offside or dropping deeper and to give himself a chance of getting an interception on the cross (but sacrificing any chance of playing Vinicius offside).
Near enough every goal ever scored technically involves some defensive errors otherwise goals wouldn't be possible. I think it's a really well worked goal, I don't think there's any huge howlers from anyone, when Madrid work a 3v3 or 4v4 sometimes the quality of movement and pass is going to win out over the defence.
Buzz Killington.
Fair assessment. If anyone is to blame in the build-up, it's how Liverpool's midfield are too easily bypassed, with Fabinho moving across to press Carvajal rather than holding his position to cover Casemiro.
Trent most at fault once the ball comes into the box, but as you say it was a difficult position and challenging ball to defend.
Agree and fair assessment
Another appointment, Robertson tried to press Modric and then he wasn’t in correct position to recover the ball. He should position himself to recover better after he pressed Modric.
I credit Modric a lot for Madrid’s goal.
I'm going to be ultra harsh here and say a good player, nay a great player, has a footballing brain that works more efficiently than others. Therefore should be able to make the right necessary call more often than not. With only one player attacking the cross (TAA had full visibility of play from his side) then playing him offside is unnecessary and you deal with him directly, i.e. don't worry about the offside.
He just blindly followed the offside script when a personal call was needed. It's this lack of trust in his defensive processing capabilities that people have a go at and correctly so.
Good assessment.
The issue with VVD is that his posture is seen as very arrogant in that situation defending a cross. Players with good technical crossing ability see that as half ass attempt of defending. It's like trying to be a smart ass, but you better to be smarter and not attempt to stick your leg around like that because it doesn't work most of the time.
VVD and this Klopp's Liverpool is the case of star aligned. They just fit each other perfectly. If he's playing for other teams where he's under more pressure to defending both overlapping and crossing more, he would look more awkward more often.
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Called it
Was just thinking about him and this thread popped. Since injury, something is short here. Can’t figure out what but the team looks better with him in it.
Very good player but he gets an easy ride a lot of the time.
Agree optimal decision here is to take it into his own hands rather than relying on Vinicius mistiming his run. Though if he had dropped off a yard to cut out any ball played in behind him it's one of those where he'd be in serious danger of scoring an OG such as was the pace on the ball, but I suppose that's a risk you have to take. Certainly don't envy a full back having to defend that one though.
Seemed to have an aura around him before the injury that hasn't returned. Still a great CB mind, but for some reason doesn't feel as dominant as he was before his injury.
As good as he is and he is a great defender, his partner and those protecting him do a lot of the actual defending. I think this is by design but it leads to him getting a shit load of praise at the expense of Matip/Konate or Fabinho. When he is called upon he defends expertly but it doesn't happen nearly enough for him to be saddled with the praise he continuously gets, especially since he came back from his injury.
I get that, but he’s not just defending a cross or shot, he’s defending 2 players, one who is overlapping. If simply about defending the cross or shot he could be more square on, but square on here leaves an easy ball in behind for the overlapper. When he’s already 2v1 he has to trust that Trent and Konate are covering their men, rather than have to think about defending 3 attackers at once. Can’t really fault him here, he’s trying to cover two and to slow the attack up to allow a sluggish midfield to drop back in.
I was not faulting him.
What I tried to say is that the aura he created for himself by this kind of stylistic defending can easily backfire if he's at another team. What he did is like an unnecessary step over in term of defending. Positioning his body to defend 2 players then good (enough). If you gamble to commit to block the cross and guess it right, then it's good too. Weirdly sticking out a leg behind is irrelevant in term of actually defending, while it looks arrogant.
Konate was much better last night. Benzema did a lot of holding up that Van Dijk wasn't able to press.
Also that block for the goal was David Luiz esque.
Also that block for the goal was David Luiz esque.
I think he could have approached Valverde earlier in the play before it became a dangerous attack and that attempt looks very half assed in a game of that magnitude
TBF its a somewhat lucky cross/shot that caught the defence off guard.
Does a player have to have an impressive medal count to be considered one of the best in his position (in a certain era or all time)?
Most people would put Shearer in their top five (probably top three) Premier League strikers but he only has one title with Blackburn and nothing else.
I think Van Dijk Is getting to a level of consistently high performances season after season that he can be in the conversation for top five in the Premier League era.
Most people would put Shearer in their top five (probably top three) Premier League strikers but he only has one title with Blackburn and nothing else.
I think Van Dijk Is getting to a level of consistently high performances season after season that he can be in the conversation for top five in the Premier League era.
Obviously. Stupid internet football conversation aside, where quality is determined by trophy count (the Ramos theory)
Still a stud, still a super player, but you simply cannot come back the same player you were after such a horrible injury.
Pre-injury, i've never seen such a complete centerback in the last 20 years or so.
Agreed.
Why does he defend like that?
Fair enough - Madrid's midfield was press resistant, nullifying one of your biggest weapons
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The way he stands off players when defending is amazing 
Liverpool don't conceede a lot but when they do he is usually involved by simply standing away from players.
All about that record of not getting dribbled past by, isn't it?
Liverpool don't conceede a lot but when they do he is usually involved by simply standing away from players.All about that record of not getting dribbled past by, isn't it?