1 league title
Best defender ever
Best defender ever
Van Dijk revisited
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
You'd be talking about the sum total of 4 players if this were the criteria: Messi, Ronaldo, Salah and Mbappe. One is on his own team and another two are well past their best days wide.
We're not really in age of epic wide forwards, even if it is a common tactic - there just aren't many about in the kind of calibre that warrants discussion, differentiation or distinction (DDD), are we?
The question is how do you judge it? For example in the games against Bayern, Bayern only scored one goal in both legs, Lewandowski was obviously quiet enough to the point him or Bayerns attack never score a single goal, likewise in the final against Ronaldo, Ronaldo was relatively quiet before Karius made bloopers to lead Madrid to a win, Aguero Kane etc have rarely had great performances against him also
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/erling-haaland-virgil-van-dijk-26066626.amp
Haaland said he couldn’t win one duel against him although I did think he scored against Liverpool.
I do agree with your general point though he still has a body of work to amass to be mentioned alongside the truly great Cbs like Nesta Baresi etc, any talk of him being the GOAT is very premature, but in terms of peak he can’t be far of the very best for me.
Yeah but he looks ice cold doing it.1 league title
Best defender ever
I don't want to get into semantics of Haaland (as he is still has a lot to prove and against the very best defenders) to be hailed as something special on that outright scale. Not a slight on him, and he may well go on to be a generation-defining forward, but he's raw and learning himself, so it's a little bit different with him, for me.
re. Bayern, you'd have to judge on VVD's influence and impact on both the game and Lewandowski; if he bossed him and was an influential figure in the way they game went, then he obviously gets his due. If he's just on the pitch and the game played out uneventfully, it'd be disingenuous to use it as a 1-up for him.
VVD is in an awkward position of being in or near his prime whilst almost nobody else of standing is, or has played against him. Benzema - should he get to the final - will be the only one he's faced this season! Not a single scalp of repute en route to a CL final!
Kind of a pointless discussion because everyone has their own metrics when it comes to defining a hierarchy. Trophies, longevity, important matches, consistency, peak, records, contemporaries, everyone will attribute different weighting to these things. It's also tricky when it comes to comparing a player still playing against those who have retired.
I've always found it difficult to place Godin in these types of debates. On one hand I think Atleti suited him to a tee and in other systems his shortcomings would probably have been made a little more apparent, but against that I don't think in the era you've outlined I've seen someone so consistent as he was at his pomp, in the same way that playing Xavi gave you a system I felt the same way about Godin, you'd have a defense that was exquisitely marshalled and provided an excellent platform. Even outside of the advantages he brought to the collective he was so reliable as an individual and he's got some big games where he shone on his cv too.
Thiago Silva was great but I didn't see enough of him prior to Chelsea domestically to judge him as confidently as Godin.
I've always found it difficult to place Godin in these types of debates. On one hand I think Atleti suited him to a tee and in other systems his shortcomings would probably have been made a little more apparent, but against that I don't think in the era you've outlined I've seen someone so consistent as he was at his pomp, in the same way that playing Xavi gave you a system I felt the same way about Godin, you'd have a defense that was exquisitely marshalled and provided an excellent platform. Even outside of the advantages he brought to the collective he was so reliable as an individual and he's got some big games where he shone on his cv too.
Thiago Silva was great but I didn't see enough of him prior to Chelsea domestically to judge him as confidently as Godin.
Thiago Silva is up there for me, another CB who could play in all systems with very little weaknesses.
Interesting, no one is giving the old chap Ramos a shout.
I thought he was quality for them when he finally got going (he was a bit of meme for me at first).
I thought he was quality for them when he finally got going (he was a bit of meme for me at first).
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It's interesting these comments would come after yesterday's game considering he wasn't exactly exceptional
Costacurta was outright critical of his performance in the first half
Costacurta was outright critical of his performance in the first half
Yeah he was kinda shit, but he's reached his third ucl final in 5 years so that'll do it.
Out of interest, how is he regarded in Italy?
I was confused as well.
That is an incredibly stupid metric to use to rate a player.
I don't rate him on that, just why I think he is being noticed again.
Alan Shearer. Best striker in the Premier league era. 0 league titles.1 league title
Best defender ever
Best CB in the world for a few years now. He's very highly rated indeed
Fair play, he certainly is that. Is he seen as this world breaker some are going on about?
He won a league title with Blackburn.
He won the Premier League.
He has one actually.
1 league title
Best defender ever
1 league title is overstating it "asterisk"
I mean, kinda, yeah. Nobody would dare compare him to Baresi or Maldini, but yeah, he's generally seen as a special special player
Now that Sergio Ramos seems physically shot and Thiago Silva grew old he's widely considered a level or two above everyone else
I get it (really); just think everything has an order and structure and he needs to be tested in the way the others were before even being uttered in their company. Always interested in the Italian hierarchy's take on the CB's they see coming up - bet you aren't even aware of the treats you get served up every week by the likes of Costacurta! Probably been standard practice for you to see elite defenders commentating on the game since you were young!
We have only Rio, and he's not asked for nearly as much insight as he can give.
Recency bias at its finest.
1 league title
Best defender ever
I don't get this line of thinking in terms of rating individual abilities:
If we follow this route then Ramos, Pique, Varane are better defenders than Nesta.
Anyone who has watched these players knows Nesta is a better defender than these 3.
People overrate team trophies in these individual comparisons so so much.
Giggs would be better than Henry if this was the case.
This might be an unpopular opinion but it's generally the other way.
People always dismiss today's players in favour of the respected, retired legends. In terms of legacy, people treat today's Football much harsher than yesteryear's Football in these all time discussions.
Nostalgia bias is miles stronger than recency bias in these debates.
The inherent thought process of most fans is always "How dare you compare this flavour of the month to this legend!"...
yup
It's far stronger the other way around. Like how many just seem to assume that Messi and Ronaldo are the two greatest players ever because they're the greatest of this era and in the context of football as it is today, and of course, they have witnessed their accomplishments the closest. That far outweighs those that find a comparison to Pele or Maradona far fetched.
That's usually because the 'legends' legacy is complete, they are retired, and you can rate them accordingly. And it is usually older fans who watched those legends and have a better chance of rating them against today's stars that lean towards the legends of yesteryear.
But this recent need to have the GOAT within our lifetime seems a new phenomenon that is creeping in quite a bit. Rating VVD as the best of all time right now is similar to those claiming Tyson Fury is the best heavyweight boxer of all time in the past couple of weeks. It's nonsense.
Liverpool fans are quick to designate all their things as the greatest ever. You’d think the PL only started a few years ago
As a diehard Milan fan, I rate Van Dijk as a better center-back than Maldini. Maldini as a left-back was a different story but right now I will talk about Maldini as cb. If you watch Maldini at center-back, you will see one of his biggest weakness and it’s called aerial ability. His aerial ability as a center-back for me isn’t good enough in top tiers of center-back, I‘ve actually seen him unnecessary on the ground due to his mistiming calculating of actions. Another pretty big weakness of him as a center back was defending against cutting-back passes, he wasn’t impressed me at this department ( if you watch him regulary, you will see what I mean).
He wasn’t that clean of defender too. In fact, he could be dirty-bustard a lot of times. 90s Maldini was very aggressive defender and he was very hot-headed defender. Elbows, dirty tackles and tactical fouls….he had done it all( in fact, almost everyone has done it). That’s another side of Maldini that everyone should know it, not bias for sure.
If I want to praise him, I think I can post new thread and describe him as a demigod for sure. In fact, he is another one of my favorite player but I don’t want anyone in this planet try to overrate him.
He wasn’t that clean of defender too. In fact, he could be dirty-bustard a lot of times. 90s Maldini was very aggressive defender and he was very hot-headed defender. Elbows, dirty tackles and tactical fouls….he had done it all( in fact, almost everyone has done it). That’s another side of Maldini that everyone should know it, not bias for sure.
If I want to praise him, I think I can post new thread and describe him as a demigod for sure. In fact, he is another one of my favorite player but I don’t want anyone in this planet try to overrate him.
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The most similar defender to Paolo in today game for me is Ruben Dias. They have share a lot of similar traits and characteristics in their games, although Maldini was better than Ruben in reading of the game, positioning and intelligence. I could see Ruben’s style of defending is similar to 90s center-back Maldini( not 2000s center back version), no nonsense defending, could play both sweeper and stopper roles, never afraid of challenging, brave , have leadership qualities and the most similar one both of them are not in excellent or elite level of aerial dueling.
Well, Billy has also been on record saying Sergio Ramos belongs up there with Baresi...I get it (really); just think everything has an order and structure and he needs to be tested in the way the others were before even being uttered in their company. Always interested in the Italian hierarchy's take on the CB's they see coming up - bet you aren't even aware of the treats you get served up every week by the likes of Costacurta! Probably been standard practice for you to see elite defenders commentating on the game since you were young!
We have only Rio, and he's not asked for nearly as much insight as he can give.
Who also supports Liverpool
Billy has done a lot of controversy things in his life both on and off the pitch.
Who also supports Liverpool
Right now, Maldini has a better career than Van Dijk for sure( in fact, VVD has time to proof himself in international stage and in term of longevity) but I said that Van Dijk is a better pure cb than him and that proof the versatility of Maldini to perform world class at almost every position in backline from starting at left-back turned to center-back when he was older and lost some of his athleticism( he even played at right back a lot of times).For me, Maldini‘s peak was during 1992-1995, that Madini was world class at every position in backline and almost completely unbeatable.
Blame capitalism. The new thing has to be the best or consumers won't buy it.
Ramos was good defensively and at times great, he was inconsistent in that area. In LaLiga he would have stinkers at times and turn into a 1 man fortress in the CL. So purely from that perspective there are other players ahead of him. (in fairness he also had to deal with the likes of Messi more often than not)
On the ball, vision, passing, leadership, attacking etc. he is up there though, the complete package. Just wish he was as great defensively and didn't lose his head so many times.
Eh, not really, and this isn't really controversial these days either. Nobody would say Sergio is better than Baresi, but most people wouldn't disagree he's right up there as one of the best ever
Michael Owen knows diddly squat about football. Van Dijk is very good, but greatest of all time shows incredible ignorance.