Van der Vaart on Maguire "He's really sh*t"

Nickthepip said:
Are other forums like this one in that the club captain can be disrespected like this and the fanbase doesn’t show solidarity? He’s not playing well, probably carrying a knock or two but he’s shown he’s a decent player. The fact he’s struggled recently says more about our squad depth than his quality.

As for the price, that’s not on him. We paid big as he had years left on the contract was entering his prime and Leicester had no need to sell.

I didn’t think his goal celebration during the international break was a good idea, his form hasn’t been great but he deserves more respect from his own supposed supporters.
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That depends on what you mean my respect and disrespect. Criticizing him for being poor (in general & on his current form) isn’t disrespectful. I’d say that overall he was more often being praised than criticized despite his iffy form throughout those last two seasons — he was often named as one of the best in the league and in the world even despite making tons of stupid mistakes (not as many as this season, but he regularly had dreadful games where he barely resembled a PL-level defender) and only maintaining world-class form for half a season.

We shouldn’t reserve to name-calling and borderline abuse, obviously, and that has been happening a lot lately. But being a Manchester United player should protect you from criticism by your own fans if you’re not capable of maintaining the required standard — as a player and as a captain.
 
Mick1 said:
That " unvarnished opinion " would have saved us a lot of trouble had it been shared by our manager at the time.

Fred is shyte. So are Mctominay, Maguire and Lingard. But they d still be the best player ( or thereabouts ) at a mid/bottom PL teams. But in as far as challenging for honours is concerned, they re massively under-skilled for that level, hence the shite argument.

" You re just a shite Robert Huth"
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I agree the midfield are out of their depth, have said so for a long time but disagree with lumping Maguire into that as well. Like I said, he's had long spells of being our most solid centreback and he was a huge part of the progress we made to 2nd last season, people are quick to forget that and focus on what has been an admittedly very poor season from him this season.

I think it's clear both Maguire and Shaw were spent after the Euro's, they've come back and have been so far off their best form, Maguire's compounded that by being rushed back from injury, culminating in what we've seen on the pitch.

I'm 100% certain he will come good and be a major fixture for us in our defence, regardless of who the manager is. I think somebody like Rangnick would like to have Maguire stepping out and pressing forwards (which he likes to do anyway) and have Varane sweeping up with his pace.
 
Very few demand blind adoration for a player just because he happens to play for United.

Applauding twattish pundits for making lame jokes at our players' expense has little to do with being "critical" or having "high standards".

"Yeah, he's been shite of late - but Van der Vaart can feck right off."

"Hahaha, lolz, he's spot on - Magwire's shyte."

Spot the difference.
 
bond19821982 said:
130m for Maguire and AWB is the robbery of the century. Fecking incompetent management .
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Not sure how our new interim manager is going to handle these two. Going forward if we want to play like a modern football club, these two have to improve massively. AWB might still make it considering he is young but Maguire pace is going to be huge issue
 
FriedClams said:
This to me is a major issue but mostly just in retrospect. At the time of their signings, the tax on English players was extremely high and they were positions we badly needed to fill, which gave the selling clubs a huge advantage.
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It’s not really in retrospect when half of the people here were saying this when we signed them.

They were always bad signings though after the money spent we had to make some mental gymnastics and convince ourselves into pretending that they are good. Although to be completely fair, Maguire was good for half a season here, so maybe there is still a bit of hope for him to rotate with Lindelof when Varane comes back. AWB is a lost cause, even for 5m would have been a bad signing cause he is not someone with whom you can plan forward.
 
harms said:
We shouldn’t reserve to name-calling and borderline abuse, obviously, and that has been happening a lot lately. But being a Manchester United player should protect you from criticism by your own fans if you’re not capable of maintaining the required standard — as a player and as a captain.
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Oh please, far better players that have played for Manchester United have taken far more abuse. Players that Maguire wouldn't even be fit to lace their boots. Maguire has taken very little abuse, if I'm being honest. Up until recently he has been given carte blanche for playing shit and every excuse under the sun for doing so. May I remind you that a far better player in Fellaini who actually contributed somewhat was booed multiple times off the stadium. And if I'm being honest, at the moment Fellaini is twice the player Maguire could ever hope to be. And I was never big on Fellaini anyway.
 
VanDeBank said:
Can we stop pretending like Pep is some sort of master scout? He paid 50m for Nathan fecking Ake.
LVG was one of the top coaches around when we got him and we mostly signed shite.

No one is saying he's a championship player. Maguire is roughly on the same level as Lindelof and Bailly. We overpaid by 50m. That's not OTT.
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Yeah but do you not see my point? We have another thread here created to bash Maguire, and the OP is using a quote by van der Vaart as evidence that Maguire is poor and/or to ridicule Maguire.

Therefore, I respond with a quote from arguably the highest-regarded and most successful coach in the world, where he states what a fantastic player Maguire is, and you dismiss it.

So, average Dutch player with no coaching/management experience says Maguire is bad, that's worthy of ANOTHER thread. If I put forward quotes from people saying Maguire is a good player, you say "what do they know?"

By the way, this is the 2nd thread we have specifically about people hammering Maguire, and we have a performance thread. I don't know why we need it. Put in in either of the two threads that exist.
 
He really is a cnut. Van der Vaart I mean. And I'd sort of understand if he was some world class player so he goes around and call other players shit but he was an average player.
I'm not sure this is even worthy of a thread really.
 
Lentwood said:
Yeah but do you not see my point? We have another thread here created to bash Maguire, and the OP is using a quote by van der Vaart as evidence that Maguire is poor and/or to ridicule Maguire.

Therefore, I respond with a quote from arguably the highest-regarded and most successful coach in the world, where he states what a fantastic player Maguire is, and you dismiss it.

So, average Dutch player with no coaching/management experience says Maguire is bad, that's worthy of ANOTHER thread. If I put forward quotes from people saying Maguire is a good player, you say "what do they know?"

By the way, this is the 2nd thread we have specifically about people hammering Maguire, and we have a performance thread. I don't know why we need it. Put in in either of the two threads that exist.
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Literally every Dutch pundit says Maguire is shit. Even those with coaching experience. Van Basten and Gullit among them. Why? Because they're being honest and see the same thing.

Pep is never going to say X united player is fecking shit. He has to be professional. I'm not saying he thinks Maguire is crap, I'm just saying his words are just as meaningless as Ole's at pressers.
 
Florida Man said:
United fans have a tradition of hating England. And long may it continue.
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So so. We sing songs about United > England obviously but I wouldn’t call it a tradition & I wouldn’t say it’s even a majority nowadays.
RC89 said:
Not true. He was almost as bad in his first season and was pretty poor until Dec last season. Thereafter he was generally pretty decent til the end of the season.
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Nonsense.
 
It would be more accurate to say he has BEEN shit, rather than IS shit. Is he an amazing world class Cb, not a chance, is he decent enough? Usually, but this season he has been an embarrassment.
 
Sviken said:
Oh please, far better players that have played for Manchester United have taken far more abuse. Players that Maguire wouldn't even be fit to lace their boots. Maguire has taken very little abuse, if I'm being honest. Up until recently he has been given carte blanche for playing shit and every excuse under the sun for doing so. May I remind you that a far better player in Fellaini who actually contributed somewhat was booed multiple times off the stadium. And if I'm being honest, at the moment Fellaini is twice the player Maguire could ever hope to be. And I was never big on Fellaini anyway.
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This is what I’ve said in the first paragraph? Fellaini wasn’t a much better player though.
 
VanDeBank said:
Literally every Dutch pundit says Maguire is shit. Even those with coaching experience. Van Basten and Gullit among them. Why? Because they're being honest and see the same thing.
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Oh wow that’s two incredibly successful coaches, who did incredible jobs with their teams and absolutely didn’t alienate their best players, they must be right.
 
Maluco said:
Are you joking? He looks about 50 in that video! Scruffy, haggard and unfit. An ex-pro shouldn’t be looking like that at only 38 years old.

And what he said about Maguire is just unprofessional. Analysis is not calling a player “shit”.

He has played well in massive games for both club and country in the past despite his obvious flaws.

“Shit” is not analysis.
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Someone pointed out the local differences between punditry in the Netherlands and Britain. Apparently this isn't uncommon lingo there, whereas in Britain it appears to strike differently.

Calling a player shit on natonal TV is not something I appreciate, but TV commentary in Norway frequently uses phrases that equals to "shit" for on pitch performances. Big difference between adressing a performance of a player and overall quality of a player though.

But for a larger discussion: Is it ok for forum posters to call players "Shit" just because the audience is smaller?
 
JB7 said:
Oh wow that’s two incredibly successful coaches, who did incredible jobs with their teams and absolutely didn’t alienate their best players, they must be right.
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They're in a position to be honest. Pep isn't.

And besides, your argument is just an appeal to authority.
 
Lentwood said:
Yeah but do you not see my point? We have another thread here created to bash Maguire, and the OP is using a quote by van der Vaart as evidence that Maguire is poor and/or to ridicule Maguire.

Therefore, I respond with a quote from arguably the highest-regarded and most successful coach in the world, where he states what a fantastic player Maguire is, and you dismiss it.

So, average Dutch player with no coaching/management experience says Maguire is bad, that's worthy of ANOTHER thread. If I put forward quotes from people saying Maguire is a good player, you say "what do they know?"

By the way, this is the 2nd thread we have specifically about people hammering Maguire, and we have a performance thread. I don't know why we need it. Put in in either of the two threads that exist.
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Van der Vaart is a shit cnut, I don't know why anyone even takes him seriously when the level of his analysis is "I can find Maguires in local clubs playing in park" "Maguire is shit". Even more hilarious that people think he is giving honest assessment.
 
Maluco said:
Are you joking? He looks about 50 in that video! Scruffy, haggard and unfit. An ex-pro shouldn’t be looking like that at only 38 years old.

And what he said about Maguire is just unprofessional. Analysis is not calling a player “shit”.

He has played well in massive games for both club and country in the past despite his obvious flaws.

“Shit” is not analysis.
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roonster09 said:
Van der Vaart is a shit cnut, I don't know why anyone even takes him seriously when the level of his analysis is "I can find Maguires in local clubs playing in park" "Maguire is shit". Even more hilarious that people think he is giving honest assessment.
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He's analyzed Maguire "properly" as well:



I think the footage speaks for itself, really. All these blunders were from 2 consecutive away games.
He is absolutely not wrong when he says he could find 3 players at a Sunday league club capable of matching the performance in the footage.
 
dannyrhinos89 said:
I Don’t think hes as bad as people make out but the bold part simply isn’t true.

he’s made a horrendous amount of errors that could’ve easily been avoided a fair few have lead to goals so solid and reliable he definitely hasn’t been.
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Six months ago most people had his absence from the Europa League final as one of the key reasons we didn’t win.

He’s been shocking this season but so have many of the England players. Sterling can’t get in City’s team, Stones lost his place to Laporte, Sancho and Shaw have struggled with Utd, Kane hasn’t been scoring for Spurs.

It’s almost like there has been a hangover from making the Euros final.
 
VanDeBank said:
They're in a position to be honest. Pep isn't.

And besides, your argument is just an appeal to authority.
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I've said nothing about Pep. And honest or not, neither of them were coaches who's opinions would be worth listening to if they hadn't had great playing careers, they both failed pretty much everywhere they went and as I said previously, fell out with senior players almost everywhere they went too.

As someone else said earlier this thread, Maguire this season has BEEN shit, there is no defence for his performances this season frankly and if it weren't for Varane being injured he would have been dropped. But he quite categorically is NOT a shit player, he's a good player who is way out of form.
 
VanDeBank said:
I think the footage speaks for itself, really. All these blunders were from 2 consecutive away games.
He is absolutely not wrong when he says he could find 3 players at a Sunday league club capable of matching the performance in the footage.
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Yeah next what, someone posting Ronaldo's open goal miss from 2 yards and come up with "I can bring my mates from school who can score that goal".

Also he said " When I go to see an amateur club on Sunday I can find 3 players who can play like him " in Oct 2019 when we just signed him and that was after Liverpool game. Somehow he took offense because he cost more than VVD.

Maguire is in shit form, there is no doubt about that and he has been shit this season. But VDV is a shit cnut and a attention seeking twat. He makes Souness look sane.

p.s: Not sure what video you posted, it's blocked and can't watch it.
 
Maguire has been shit most of the season but he's clearly not been fully fit - at his best he's reached a higher level than Van Der Vaart ever did who was a failure in his one big move and didn't last long at Spurs either
 
Nothing van da Vaart says is worth talking about.

Has he been good enough this season? Definitely No!
But is Maguire shyte? No!

He will be back.
He might be out of form and not be the best CB in the league but to suggest he is Sunday league material is just ridiculous.
 
Random Task said:
Okay, I don't get the utter weirdness with non-English football fans supporting an English club but... hating England?

Hopefully, the likes of Maguire and AWB can prove you wrong. Under the leadership and guidance of an efficient manager and coaching team, I think they will.
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United is for English fans only then :lol: Nice viewpoint
 
roonster09 said:
Yeah next what, someone posting Ronaldo's open goal miss from 2 yards and come up with "I can bring my mates from school who can score that goal".

Also he said " When I go to see an amateur club on Sunday I can find 3 players who can play like him " in Oct 2019 when we just signed him and that was after Liverpool game. Somehow he took offense because he cost more than VVD.

Maguire is in shit form, there is no doubt about that and he has been shit this season. But VDV is a shit cnut and a attention seeking twat. He makes Souness look sane.

p.s: Not sure what video you posted, it's blocked and can't watch it.
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If Ronaldo would miss from 2 yards in front of open goal 5 times during the same match, I have no problem with the pundit saying that.

The footage is Maguire gifting the ball to the opposition, often under 0 pressure and in dangerous areas, multiple times during West Ham away 2019. That's where he made the remark about amateur players capable of doing the same.

JB7 said:
I've said nothing about Pep. And honest or not, neither of them were coaches who's opinions would be worth listening to if they hadn't had great playing careers, they both failed pretty much everywhere they went and as I said previously, fell out with senior players almost everywhere they went too.

As someone else said earlier this thread, Maguire this season has BEEN shit, there is no defence for his performances this season frankly and if it weren't for Varane being injured he would have been dropped. But he quite categorically is NOT a shit player, he's a good player who is way out of form.
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So which world class manager has ever sat in a studio and said X player is crap?

They're often not employed as pundits and they won't say X player is crap because it's not professional and it could cost them another job

Stop with the appeal to authority. Just because Van Basten wasn't the new Tuchel doesn't mean he's unable to assess whether or not Maguire has a good first touch or a good pass (spoiler: he doesn't). And like I said most foreign pundits are drawing the same conclusion.

If VDV was an analyst during West Ham away 2019 (and I think during the whole PL season), during the England Holland nations league game, during Villareal. He's seen multiple shite performances across 3 years and is concluding he's a shit player.
 
Came back to the thread just to reiterate that Maguire is a bum and VdV is right.
 
Maguire has been bad this season but so have most of Utd's team. When the coaching and tactics improve I am sure he will find his form.
 
VanDeBank said:
So which world class manager has ever sat in a studio and said X player is crap?

They're often not employed as pundits and they won't say X player is crap because it's not professional and it could cost them another job

Stop with the appeal to authority. Just because Van Basten wasn't the new Tuchel doesn't mean he's unable to assess whether or not Maguire has a good first touch or a good pass (spoiler: he doesn't). And like I said most foreign pundits are drawing the same conclusion.

If VDV was an analyst during West Ham away 2019 (and I think during the whole PL season), during the England Holland nations league game, during Villareal. He's seen multiple shite performances across 3 years and is concluding he's a shit player.
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It's not an appeal to authority, it's using their coaching careers as proof that they clearly are not the best judges of players. One of them dropped Shearer and the other dropped Seedorf for fecks sake.

You have a pretty clear agenda that you think Maguire is shite. That's your opinion, it doesn't make it right.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's remarkable how many central defenders we've had over the past decade that have been terrible for us but excelled prior to joining us or after leaving us, alongside being consistently good for their national sides. It's almost as though there is a much bigger problem in our team.
 
VanDeBank said:
If Ronaldo would miss from 2 yards in front of open goal 5 times during the same match, I have no problem with the pundit saying that.

The footage is Maguire gifting the ball to the opposition, often under 0 pressure and in dangerous areas, multiple times during West Ham away 2019. That's where he made the remark about amateur players capable of doing the same.
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That's why he is a shit "pundit".

He had shit game, he isn't a shit player and if he thinks he can get 3 players from local park then he is deluded. You can make compilation of mistakes for any player, if you use that to judge a player then everyone is a shit player.
 
Maguire isn't shit his body just makes him play like shit because his big and uncoordinated a lot of the time... if he was just 5-10% quicker and more coordinated he'd actually be amazing probably.

sometimes he has brain farts too I guess, but that can be coached away or he can learn
 
Van der Vaart just likes technical players and let's be honest, Maguire is no Franz. Van der Vaart is just mad that the creative 10 without lungs or legs became obsolete 4 years into his career which resulted in him never really delivering on his promise and seems intent to drone on about technique and his disgust at topplayers lacking it. He was hardly being serious here mind, it was just a Wum.

Calling him an average player is a hilarious take though. He was extremely gifted, albeit a bit lazy and didn't live for his sport.

Dirk Kuyt was an average player.
 
JB7 said:
It's not an appeal to authority, it's using their coaching careers as proof that they clearly are not the best judges of players.
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You're saying coaching/managerial ability is the same as scouting ability. LVG was a good coach and a shit scout. He signed utter dross but was capable of getting decent performances out of league two players. Pep signed Ake for 50m and is playing him left back.

Anyway, every foreign pundit says Maguire is shit more or less. It's called a consensus. The only reason the pundits in England don't is because Maguire's British. They have no problem take a dump on Fred, but will stay silent on McTominay.
 
VanDeBank said:
You're saying coaching/managerial ability is the same as scouting ability. LVG was a good coach and a shit scout. He signed utter dross but was capable of getting decent performances out of league two players. Pep signed Ake for 50m and is playing him left back.

Anyway, every foreign pundit says Maguire is shit more or less. It's called a consensus. The only reason the pundits in England don't is because Maguire's British. They have no problem take a dump on Fred, but will stay silent on McTominay.
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Are we using three Dutch ex-players as a basis for every foreign pundit now?
 
He isn't shit but i don't know why people are being so precious over these comments or strong terms used. This idea that everything is abuse these days is getting ridiculous.

If Evra said this about a City or Liverpool player I'd find it funny.
 
roonster09 said:
That's why he is a shit "pundit".

He had shit game, he isn't a shit player and if he thinks he can get 3 players from local park then he is deluded. You can make compilation of mistakes for any player, if you use that to judge a player then everyone is a shit player.
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He hasn't had a "shit game", he's been dreadful for months, even years (with the occasional purple patche) if we're to being honest. He's one of the main culprits for our atrocious form and leaking so many goals. So yes, Maguire is a little bit shit and the sooner we realize and accept that, the sooner we can move on and get an actual proper defender. Otherwise we're in a world of trouble with a defender who has no positional awareness, constantly misplaces passes, has numerous brainfarts every game and has the pace of a donkey.
 
Sviken said:
He hasn't had a "shit game", he's been dreadful for months, even years (with the occasional purple patche) if we're to being honest. He's one of the main culprits for our atrocious form and leaking so many goals. So yes, Maguire is a little bit shit and the sooner we realize and accept that, the sooner we can move on and get an actual proper defender. Otherwise we're in a world of trouble with a defender who has no positional awareness, constantly misplaces passes, has numerous brainfarts every game and has the pace of a donkey.
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He was shit for years? Yeah we are not being honest here then.
 
roonster09 said:
He was shit for years? Yeah we are not being honest here then.
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We absolutely are. You can find compilations on Youtube about his "defending" that would even surprise you that he is an actual professional footballer. Were Chris Smalling and Johnny Evans great defenders? Because if you consider Maguire to be, might as well consider Johnny Evans a world class one. It's ridiculous that the captain of Manchester United is a footballer who even relegation teams would think twice now if he was offered on a free and I'm being deadly serious here.
 
Lentwood said:
Yeah but do you not see my point? We have another thread here created to bash Maguire, and the OP is using a quote by van der Vaart as evidence that Maguire is poor and/or to ridicule Maguire.

Therefore, I respond with a quote from arguably the highest-regarded and most successful coach in the world, where he states what a fantastic player Maguire is, and you dismiss it.

So, average Dutch player with no coaching/management experience says Maguire is bad, that's worthy of ANOTHER thread. If I put forward quotes from people saying Maguire is a good player, you say "what do they know?"

By the way, this is the 2nd thread we have specifically about people hammering Maguire, and we have a performance thread. I don't know why we need it. Put in in either of the two threads that exist.
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We ve knocked Sanchez, Fred and Maguire ( can potentially add Ronaldo to that list ) off City, after it was claimed they are rated by Pep. I'd hate to go on an Alex Jones type conspiracy theory, but oughly convenient for the noisy neighbours.

Where were we when they were signing Cancelo, Silva, Dias and co ? Were they not as highly rated by the bald cont

Edit: spelling
 
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