Van De Beek | Everton Loan Watch

VDB may very much be a 'system' player, he wouldnt be the first player from ajax to not replicate his form and ability elsewhere. If we do adopt a ajax system under ETH then maybe VDB will get back to his best.

He's not going to be a WC talent, but his ability to find space and get into goos forward positions and finish moves means he will bring something different to our midfield under ETH.

I think he would have been a success at madrid as his game is more suited to Spainish football.
 
I don't think VDB is going to improve with Tag

United have a history of signing players mentally unable to hack playing in the big boy league.

Hopefully this whole new change at the club addresses the quality of player we bring in.
 
SportingCP96 said:
I don’t know what the shock is, in that Ajax team the outstanding talents were De Ligt and FDJ. Followed by Zyiech and Neres. Then came VDB.

Tadic was also a top 3 player in that squad and Onana was one of the key players and talents of that team.

That puts VDV as the 7th best player on a 11 man starting 11. What did you guys expect exactly? He was never a 5 star talent or even a 4 star talent, he’s more of a three star and that’s fine for a squad player but never to be a starting player.

With that being said at only 25 which people forget is still very young for a footballer he can come good abs prove everyone wrong…..I would not hold my breath though.
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Exactly this. He was an average starter in a really good Ajax side. The fact that he got a few CL goals behind his name earned him the spot on the ballon d'or short list. He wasn't an exceptional talent.

In a typical Eredivisie season there's generally only one or two players that could hack it a top club. I think from this season it's Gakpo and Mazraoui.
Memphis was in that category and still flopped. VDB was never in that category. In that 18/19 I'd have put my money on De Jong and De Ligt, and the latter has disappointed.

Players we've been linked with in the lazy press are either really overrated (Gravenberch) or not ready IMO (Timber and Malacia). The Eredivise is the OG farmers league.

Getting back to VDB, he wasn't that great in the CL apart from the goals. He's been bang average for Everton and us.

I think he'll be a good and useful squad player under ETH next season, and he'll either leave for his career after that or be content with his role. No one will match his salary.
ShinjiNinja26 said:
When Donny was playing under ETH he looked a completely different player to the one we’ve seen the last couple of seasons. Don’t write him off just yet is all I’m saying.
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No he didn't look different.
 
Should sell if we can. After two seasons he's clearly not up to it in the PL.
 
VanDeBank said:
Exactly this. He was an average starter in a really good Ajax side. The fact that he got a few CL goals behind his name earned him the spot on the ballon d'or short list. He wasn't an exceptional talent.

In a typical Eredivisie season there's generally only one or two players that could hack it a top club. I think from this season it's Gakpo and Mazraoui.
Memphis was in that category and still flopped. VDB was never in that category. In that 18/19 I'd have put my money on De Jong and De Ligt, and the latter has disappointed.

Players we've been linked with in the lazy press are either really overrated (Gravenberch) or not ready IMO (Timber and Malacia). The Eredivise is the OG farmers league.

Getting back to VDB, he wasn't that great in the CL apart from the goals. He's been bang average for Everton and us.

I think he'll be a good and useful squad player under ETH next season, and he'll either leave for his career after that or be content with his role. No one will match his salary.


No he didn't look different.
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To your point Memphis was thrice the talent VDB ever was. Granted they are different positions but Memphis looked phenomenal and even I thought he was the real deal.

I think the EPL is too high for him and I actually believe he might be in pretty decent in a league like the bundesliga that is very open and attack minded.
 
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I suspect he's a pretty mediocre player (on the highest level) all things said and done.

But I would be absolutely delighted if he proved me wrong.

In fact, I'd be delighted if he could be used to good effect as a squad player for what should be a top level team (that would be Manchester United in case anyone wasn't sure).
 
GDaly95 said:
It was a shocking loan move. A team in freefall with zero decent performers and a toxic environment. Whoever came together to decide on that move, maybe him included, deserve a pasting.

I'm not holding his Everton stint against him in terms of performances / impact made.

I'd love to know what Ajax fans made of his performances in an Ajax jersey because I don't think its true that 'he wasn't even good for Ajax' either. Smacks of people just trying to show that they're 'more right' than everyone else.

What remains true is that he didn't do enough when he did have chances for us. He mainly sought to keep it tidy which isn't enough and he clearly didn't have the defensive awareness to operate as a 6.

He'll get a chance under EtH and I'm sure we'll see an improvement from him. Whether he makes the cut remains to be seen but people acting like its a foregone conclusion in either direction are pretending they know something that they can't possibly know. I don't know why people do that.
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Sensible post. Let's see how it goes for him under ETH. Assuming that is that he isn't off loaded in the summer, who's to say he won't be.
 
Terranova said:
No this is revisionist history. VDB was very good at Ajax. Always in the same conversation as De Jong and De Ligt, which might overrated him a bit, but no by that much as SportingCP96 claims. Just because a team has quite a lot of good players in a season doesn't mean that the 5th best player(VDB was that for me at least) is a bad player. By that logic the best player of Burnley is better than the 5th best of United, just because the Burnley player is number 1 and the United player number 5.

You can look up the stats, you can look up the compilations. VDB was just a very good player at Ajax because Ten Hag knew exactly how to use him.
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Hardly any Eredivise player could even consider making it at a big club. mostly they don't nowadays. The Ajax team had a lot of good players? How many are tearing it up, starting or performing well for any big sides?
dutchred said:
Exactly. He was best in and around the penalty area playing one two's and scored quite a bit. If we used him so we would omit Bruno or use him a wide playmaker
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You would not get hyped over Tadic or Ziyech who are both better than him
lex talionis said:
There is no denying that Donny was a high impact player under ETH at Ajax.
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So were many who are non features today
choccy77 said:
I don't think VDB is going to improve with Tag

United have a history of signing players mentally unable to hack playing in the big boy league.

Hopefully this whole new change at the club addresses the quality of player we bring in.
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yup. Dutch players nowadays are pretty trash so it was a risk anyways.
VanDeBank said:
Exactly this. He was an average starter in a really good Ajax side. The fact that he got a few CL goals behind his name earned him the spot on the ballon d'or short list. He wasn't an exceptional talent.

In a typical Eredivisie season there's generally only one or two players that could hack it a top club. I think from this season it's Gakpo and Mazraoui.
Memphis was in that category and still flopped. VDB was never in that category. In that 18/19 I'd have put my money on De Jong and De Ligt, and the latter has disappointed.

Players we've been linked with in the lazy press are either really overrated (Gravenberch) or not ready IMO (Timber and Malacia). The Eredivise is the OG farmers league.

Getting back to VDB, he wasn't that great in the CL apart from the goals. He's been bang average for Everton and us.

I think he'll be a good and useful squad player under ETH next season, and he'll either leave for his career after that or be content with his role. No one will match his salary.


No he didn't look different.
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thank you for your honesty.
 
Terranova said:
You know that after his debut he's been a starting midfielder right, all 5 matches that is. After his "first" injury he was going to start again, just to get injured again. Apparently he isn't fully fit yet, but he can get a game for Everton. You're the one living in a fantasy land where getting injured means you are benched because of your skill instead of being unavailable.
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So what's your excuse for the 24-months prior to that?

This kind of nonsense is holding us back as a club. "Rashford is a world-class talent he's just better on the left/better on the right/better down the middle/playing injured/struggling mentally". No. He just isn't as good as some of you desperately wanted to believe.

Have you seen the latest Overlap interview with Gerard Pique and Gary Neville? Pique played for us 19-times and was basically allowed to leave because of one poor game against Bolton that convinced SAF he could never be a world-class PL defender. Back in the days we actually won stuff, players got one chance to impress. They didn't get 2 years and a loan move!

Now, obviously, I am not saying that we need to be that hasty but we do need to stop making these pathetic excuses. DvdB has had multiple chances to impress under various managers and has contributed nothing with competition from our worst starting midfield pairing in PL history. He's gone to Everton who are terrible and done nothing. If this lad makes a world-class PL midfielder, I'll eat my laptop and delete my account on here.

It annoys me so much because the lad gets more air-time on here than he's had minutes on the pitch! Wonder if Kleberson or Djemba-Djemba or Obertan had endless threads were posters argued for them 'just being given a chance'.
 
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Lentwood said:
Not negative, just sick of living in a fantasy land where 25 year old midfielders who can't get a game for Everton are suddenly going to transform us into a side capable of challenging Liverpool and City.
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Guess you have not followed van De Beek closely in Everton by the sound of it,he was man of the match against Leeds in the 3-0 win where he bossed the midfield and praised by Lampard. The 2 next games Everton as a team did not perform well against Southampton (0-2) but alittle better in the 0-1 loss against City before he got injured wich is the reason he has not played lately.
 
Leftback99 said:
Should sell if we can. After two seasons he's clearly not up to it in the PL.
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You’re probably right but surely we have to see what ETH wants to do first? If he wants to use him we’d be mad to sell now given their history.
 
AlexUTD said:
Guess you have not followed van De Beek closely in Everton by the sound of it,he was man of the match against Leeds in the 3-0 win where he bossed the midfield and praised by Lampard. The 2 next games Everton as a team did not perform well against Southampton (0-2) but alittle better in the 0-1 loss against City before he got injured wich is the reason he has not played lately.
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Well I am not sure you followed him that closely either. He did have a great game against Leeds but that was the same as McTominay and his annual worldie against Leeds, it is easy to look great in midfield against a team that pretty much ignores opposition midfielders for 90 minutes and lets you break forward at will into acres of space. In subsequent appearances prior to his injury he was his usual anonymous self, bullied defensively and unable to impose himself on games at all. He made 4 starts, all defeats and was subbed off in two of them. I am not saying he was to blame for the losses but he certainly did nothing to suggest he was turning a corner at Everton. He is 2 years into a PL career and so far looks nowhere near good enough to be regular starter.
 
AlexUTD said:
Guess you have not followed van De Beek closely in Everton by the sound of it,he was man of the match against Leeds in the 3-0 win where he bossed the midfield and praised by Lampard. The 2 next games Everton as a team did not perform well against Southampton (0-2) but alittle better in the 0-1 loss against City before he got injured wich is the reason he has not played lately.
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Perfect example of what I am talking about. What you have actually just told me above is that he was good against Leeds (let's face it, who hasn't looked good against Leeds this year) and then had two weak games against Southampton and City. So he's done nothing in two of three games, but that's OK, because the 'team did not perform well'.

Too many excuses. Bored of it. Not good enough. Sell.
 
Lentwood said:
Perfect example of what I am talking about. What you have actually just told me above is that he was good against Leeds (let's face it, who hasn't looked good against Leeds this year) and then had two weak games against Southampton and City. So he's done nothing in two of three games, but that's OK, because the 'team did not perform well'.

Too many excuses. Bored of it. Not good enough. Sell.
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Did you not say sell because he was not good enough to start for Everton? make up your mind dude.
 
Gandalf said:
Well I am not sure you followed him that closely either. He did have a great game against Leeds but that was the same as McTominay and his annual worldie against Leeds, it is easy to look great in midfield against a team that pretty much ignores opposition midfielders for 90 minutes and lets you break forward at will into acres of space. In subsequent appearances prior to his injury he was his usual anonymous self, bullied defensively and unable to impose himself on games at all. He made 4 starts, all defeats and was subbed off in two of them. I am not saying he was to blame for the losses but he certainly did nothing to suggest he was turning a corner at Everton. He is 2 years into a PL career and so far looks nowhere near good enough to be regular starter.
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Please do not compare De Beek to Mctominay. Mctominay hides from the ball when we try to play out from the back and has zero technique and plays sideways 98% of the time wich De Beek is the opposite of.

If we can get more players like Sancho and De Beek who like to pass and move we will see a totally different Donny next season.

And if he still do not impress i will be the first one to hold up my hands and say that he is not good enough.
 
AlexUTD said:
Please do not compare De Beek to Mctominay. Mctominay hides from the ball when we try to play out from the back and has zero technique and plays sideways 98% of the time wich De Beek is the opposite of.

If we can get more players like Sancho and De Beek who like to pass and move we will see a totally different Donny next season.

And if he still do not impress i will be the first one to hold up my hands and say that he is not good enough.
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VDB is the ultimate give it back to the man he got the ball off merchant though.
 
Bloody hell the overrating of this dude by some. He's nothing special and he never will be. He is actually Ten Hag's first real test to see if he has what it takes to work at the highest level of the sport. He has to offload this dud, even if he did well for him at Ajax. No room for pity. Donny had his chance and came up short, massively so.
 
Lentwood said:
So what's your excuse for the 24-months prior to that?
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The best excuse ever, i was commenting on a post that was talking about Everton, not United. So please read carefully before you post:nono:
 
AlexUTD said:
Guess you have not followed van De Beek closely in Everton by the sound of it,he was man of the match against Leeds in the 3-0 win where he bossed the midfield and praised by Lampard. The 2 next games Everton as a team did not perform well against Southampton (0-2) but alittle better in the 0-1 loss against City before he got injured wich is the reason he has not played lately.
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I did, saw nearly all of his games (might have missed 1)

He was great against Leeds and in his first (or second?) sub appearance (the one in which he gave the assist/pre assist for the goal), then average in most games with one terrible, terrible game (do not recall exactly which but the stats were McTominay-esque.).
Leeds are shit, McFred also boss them. It's only one game anyway.

All in all he's been bang average.
If Lampard thought he was that great hed have been put in him, even as a sub.
Whenever Pogba comes back from injury managers can't wait to use him.
 
Our fans can be so strange. For a player with an incoming manager who knows him very well you'd think wait and see would be obvious.
 
Bondi77 said:
If he was average at Ajax then why were Real interested in him??
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He wasn't. But someone with the name VanDeBank, where Bank is Dutch for Bench, is never going to be positive about a player they clearly dislike.
 
golden_blunder said:
If he gets regular game time under ETH I suspect he will prove us all wrong. There’s a player in there
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I think so too, but he may not be up to it against the very best midfielders. He ain't getting into Liverpool, City or Chelseas midfield.

He will get a year under ten Hag and will probably be given the option to leave if he doesn't improve drastically. I'm hoping we don't see ten Hag show him any special treatment.
 
He will improve under Ten Hag. He is a player who transitioned from a possession styled system to a disorganized tactically setup team. Let us give another chance this upcoming season.
 
We should part-ex van de Beek and cash for Timber. I know his old manager is coming in but im still not convinced we have a place in the squad for him. When we signed him i was convinced we'd signed their Cleverley in that he was a supporting act rather than one of the guys who actually made them tick.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Bloody hell the overrating of this dude by some. He's nothing special and he never will be. He is actually Ten Hag's first real test to see if he has what it takes to work at the highest level of the sport. He has to offload this dud, even if he did well for him at Ajax. No room for pity. Donny had his chance and came up short, massively so.
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Its so funny how VDB or his hype can seem really irritating to you :lol:
 
Not excited by the prospect of VDB playing for us next season. Looks like such a mediocre footballer. Maybe ETH can do something with us but I'm not expecting it. The chap looked lost at both United and couldn't even stand out at one of the worst Everton team in living memory.
 
Bondi77 said:
If he was average at Ajax then why were Real interested in him??
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His stats in the Eredivisie werent actually that great. They were very similar to Scott McTominays, but McTominay was playing in a much stronger league.
 
AlexUTD said:
Please do not compare De Beek to Mctominay. Mctominay hides from the ball when we try to play out from the back and has zero technique and plays sideways 98% of the time wich De Beek is the opposite of.

If we can get more players like Sancho and De Beek who like to pass and move we will see a totally different Donny next season.

And if he still do not impress i will be the first one to hold up my hands and say that he is not good enough.
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I think Mcotminay is rubbish but based on his time in England this is not true for VDB. He has no real quality when it comes to dribbling, close control, pace or physicality. So we've mostly been seeing a safe / average player who excels mostly at side ways and back passes. Not sure where you've been watching this brave expansive version of him the last 2 years.
 
Next season should be his final chance with us. We are where we are today because we always wait too long for players to come good (which never happened). club as big and rich as united should have set a very high standard for its own players.

dutchred said:
Exactly. He was best in and around the penalty area playing one two's and scored quite a bit. If we used him so we would omit Bruno or use him a wide playmaker
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The state of delusion of this post.
 
There is an interview by ETH about DVB and De Jong. He said both players like to be on the move and it took him a while to sort how to play both together.
Could it be that United does suit him the way he plays? United is not a pass and move team. Ajax is.

Why Ajax players or for that matter Barca players find it hard in the PL is because it's a lot of kick and run in the PL. Very few teams play the pass and move into space football.
Maybe under ETH we might or else it's better for him to move to a club abroad.
 
VanDeBank said:
Exactly this. He was an average starter in a really good Ajax side. The fact that he got a few CL goals behind his name earned him the spot on the ballon d'or short list. He wasn't an exceptional talent.

In a typical Eredivisie season there's generally only one or two players that could hack it a top club. I think from this season it's Gakpo and Mazraoui.
Memphis was in that category and still flopped. VDB was never in that category. In that 18/19 I'd have put my money on De Jong and De Ligt, and the latter has disappointed.

Players we've been linked with in the lazy press are either really overrated (Gravenberch) or not ready IMO (Timber and Malacia). The Eredivise is the OG farmers league.

Getting back to VDB, he wasn't that great in the CL apart from the goals. He's been bang average for Everton and us.

I think he'll be a good and useful squad player under ETH next season, and he'll either leave for his career after that or be content with his role. No one will match his salary.


No he didn't look different.
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Dont watch much Dutch football nowadays, but I agree with the majority of what you are saying. Also hope ETH onl signs one or two at most from the league or old players. Is a little strange how a lot of fans seem to almost want him to turn us actually into Ajax and are obsessed with us playing a system.

Last season a lot of people seemed to be raving about Calvin Stengs for example, yet whenever I watch Nice as I love Giouri, he doesnt seem to be gettign many minutes from the bench and they of course also have a previously hyped player in Justin Kluivert who is doin gpretty well there but seeems to hav efound his level after failing at Roma and on loan to Leipzig.

I did enjoy Ajax and there run to in the CL when VDB was there. For me DeJong and DeLigt were way above the others. I thought Neres and Ziyech and even Tadic were all decent but found it crazy all the hype of Ziyech going to Chelsea when though he failed there, he was replacing am already better player by far in Willian and he hasnt exactly pulled up trees.

For me VDB was behind them. Had the typicla Ajax technical skills and seemed a real busy body which I liked, but I was really dissapointed when we signed him over a couple of players heavily linked the same summer like Grealish.

You would expect him to do better under ETH but nothing to get excited about. Anyway, even with all of our midfield departures this summer, do we even need him?

Our midfield is totally lopsided. We will have McTominay, Fred, Garner, VDB, Fernandes and Hannibal, six players and not one of them for the real defensive midfield birth, they are virtually all for the defensive midfield play making birth or Fernandes position, we really dont need them all and yet we are getting linked most at the moment with the defensive midfield play maker in the transfer market....one or two of them should go I feel and for me VDB would definately be one of them
 
Not convinced he has it to make it -in the EPL - surely this is going to be a shit or bust season for Donny in the EPL - if his former manager doesn’t select him or he cannot hold down a place then he will need to move on to another league.

Hopefully with his confidence back he will become the player that we hoped he would - to be fair - he has never been given a fair crack of the whip and we certainly need a midfield revolution for next season as that area has been so poor for so long……
 
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