That's quite pathetic. Carrick is not a DM and he does not play like one. It really is simple. IF you can't grasp it, then you should give up.CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Utd Sign Carrick
- Thread starter ehsanul
- Start date
Fortitude said:
There are plenty of them around, but the trend these days seem to be that most team plays with a holding midfielder. These trends come and go, like 15 years ago it was very populare to play with wing-backs. That trend didn't "eradicate" full-backs and wingers.
Its not dying out, there's been a dip in quality but almost every team has there allrounder in midfield, the one who does a bit of everythingFortitude said:
Fletcher, Smith and O'Shea have more of the aggression needed for the role. Playing Scholes and Carrick against a top class midfield without cover is suicide.golden_blunder said:
Fortitude said:
No, Carrick isn't a "DM", he is a centre midfielder. A decent one, and better than what we have, so will most likely improve our team. Hurrah!
What kind of non-commital answer is that. Give your opinion. Would it work, or not?CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Fortitude said:
O'Shea has aggression?
Why has he never shown any of that on the pitch?
Fortitude said:
Its not about the ineffiencies of there midfield, they can only cover so much ground, if the winger doesn't track the oppositions fullback no one is going to
Alongside him, whatever. He needs someone to do the majority of the defensive work, he's not the man for that job.Mozza said:
Fortitude said:
How on earth am I supposed to know? - I left my magic crystal ball at home this morning.
Fortitude said:
He does the majority of the defensive work at Tottenham, why does that have to change at United?
Fortitude said:
Have you gone to the same black 'n white school of life as Devilish?
Mozza said:
Im getting Deja Vu. NO. HE. DID. NOT. He is not a defensive midfielder. he is a deep lying playmaker. Christ on a bike Mozza. Get with the programme.
Whatever you want to call it. Top notch 'midfielders' as you call them are few and far between in the modern game, that is a fact. If you want to argue this pointless issue further, provide any names comparable to what I put up for 5yrs ago. You can't, because they do not exist in the modern game.CnutOfAllCnuts said:
We will get done over like Liverpool did in the CL final when they tried to play Gerrard and Alsono (a pairing with more defensive abilty than Carrick and Scholes) if we play quality sides with Carrick next to Scholes in a 4-4-2. Not only that, Scholes won't be able to get forward like he should either.
But that's a wingers only job. He should not have to come in field and help out the central pair. Any team that uses a 4-4-2 with a deep-lying playmaker in it does not use 2wingers. This is a fact. We would be breaking the mould to do so and we would pay heavily for it.Mozza said:
Fortitude said:
Top notch FOOTBALLERS are few and far between.
Who knows whether we will get done over with a midfield pairing of Scholes and Carrick. Maybe, maybe not. It will depends on the rest of the team, not Scholes and Carrick only.
What I do know, is that a midfield partnership of Scholes and Carrick is far more promising than a midfield pairing of Giggs and O'Shea. I.e. an improvement on last season. Happy days.
Fortitude said:
Of course they should.
Have you ever played football?
RedRichio said:
He did though, it wasn't Jenas doing it, nor Lennon, Davids did a bit but he was so far wide he couldn't be helping Carrick too much, who else could it be?
If you can't argue your points you should leave this alone. It's not about black and white it is simple common sense. Carrick is not a 'box-to-box' player, there are no lines to muddy. Carrick is a very good playmaker, outside of that, his game is average. If we're going to use him correctly he will need defensive support. That is the bare bones of it. You don't put a square peg in a round hole. Which is what you seem to be suggesting, along with Mozza.CnutOfAllCnuts said:
At no point have I done a 'Devilish'
I wouldnt get to into arguing about whether he is a cm or dm cos he aint fecking signed yet!
Well I hope people don't act surprised if we get turned over with that pairing. It's going to help us going forward, it will put a strain on us going backwards. Top class sides will relish playing against that pairing.CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Fortitude said:
Not realy, nothing wrong with wingers tucking in and helping out, and they have to do it against sides that play narrower formations, the fullbacks don't need the help the midfield does, no point in standing around doing nothing when the oppositions got the ball
Fortitude said:
Any player needs "defensive support". The defending starts up-front, and we are blessed there, especially with Rooney, who puts a hell of a lot of pressure on the ball up front.
You are right, you shouldn't put a square peg in a round hole. Neither should you pigeon hole footballers as much as you and the likes of Devilish seem to like to do.
And we still havent signed him so dont all go getting your kecks in a twist
So you're saying a winger should; attack, defend against his full back as well as abandon the wing to help out an inept CM, thus letting his full back run free?CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Righto.
And what would me playing football have to do with the basic rules of being a winger?
Here's a thought: A player can adapt. Even though it might not say 'DM' next to Carrick's name on football manager, that does not mean he's unable to do defensive work. He played as the most defensive midfielder for England against Equador, and was man of the match.
He's a bloody good midfielder, and will strengthen our side.
He's a bloody good midfielder, and will strengthen our side.
Fortitude said:
It wouldn't put more strain on us defensively than the Giggs - O'Shea pairing.
It's really not the same as having a dedicated extra CM helping out all game. Your wingers would be dead after half a season of doing that. Their main job is to attack, stretch the play by creating width, their third job is track their wide man. In those 4-4-2's where there is 3cm's the 'wide CM' never stretchs the pitch and he barely gets forward compared to a winger.Mozza said:
Shaft said:
United need Carrick more than Arsenal need Rosicky. Im not sure exactly wherell he play at Arsenal, he mightny necessarily even be a regular.
We've always played that way and non of our wingers have been dead towards the end of the seasonFortitude said:
Fortitude said:
Yes, a winger has to be prepared to do that, especially in games when the opposition play with three centre midfielders against our two.
It's not a question of letting his fullback run free - he won't do that if there is good sideways movement in the midfield four hwen the opposition are in possession.
Having played football would have given you a better idea of the game. I have always said that to fully understand and appreciate the details of the game, you will have to have played to a certain level, i.e. not park football or school football.
Which I suspect you have not...?
Irrelevant argument because he isnt our fecking player you transfer muppets
By pointing out the fact, and it is a fact that there are more department to midfield then their were even 8yrs ago, I'm pidgeon-holing footballers?CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Give over.
Your notion of total football where the midfielders can all play like Robbo, is a thing of the past. We have to adapt or like I said, breed our own through the academy.
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Fortitude said:
What utter rubbish
Having the likes of Butt, Ince, Robbo, Keane infield is not the same as having Carrick and Scholes. The times the wingers needed to tuck in for the top lot was minimal. It would be an every game thing with Scholes-Carrick in the middle.Mozza said:
thoward said:
Finally someone spotted it
If you want to contest it simply name me some top rate box-to-boxers of this current era like I asked you to do about 20posts ago...CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Conversely, why is it that there are so many top notch DM's out there now that were not around yrs ago. Answer these points and I'll concede you're right if you can't, then stop going on about it.
Fortitude everything you have said has been spot on! Fight the madness!
Very good post, I think you're right. Something worth thinking about for sure.Fortitude said: