US Presidential Election: Tuesday November 6th, 2012

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So they are rolling out Clint Eastwood as the surprise guest speaker tonight.

BFD.

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Just came across this re: gun control. Lawrence O'Donnell really is awesome at times.


Edit: been watching a few more of his videos, and I really like his interviewing style. If his guests give an evasive answer, he challenges them on it like a boss, and he doesn't shy away from calling bullshit on bullshit.
 
I really can't stand that kind of journalism. I agree with what he's saying, but that hysterical "I can shout louder than you" approach just further undercuts what little is left of any sort of discourse in this country. About the only time I've liked it was when I think John Stewart took the host of Crossfire to task for encouraging just that sort of thing.

Snarky cynical one liners, shrieking talking heads, smug bloggers... it's all noise. Nothing actually gets thought about. No 2 people with even slightly different opinions can trade ideas, let alone reach consensus. Both sides are doing it, and we're trapped in a ridiculous cycle and it's dumbing down the whole affair. I really have no idea who's to blame either. Manipulative politicians, ratings hungry media, a simple minded populace. I couldn't say. Just sick of it is all. Both sides trotting out their bulldogs to yell at the other side. What's the point?

Anyway, no offense Saliph. I do agree with the guy and all. I just hate the method and what it's doing to the discourse.
 
brad-dyrak said:
I really can't stand that kind of journalism. I agree with what he's saying, but that hysterical "I can shout louder than you" approach just further undercuts what little is left of any sort of discourse in this country. About the only time I've liked it was when I think John Stewart took the host of Crossfire to task for encouraging just that sort of thing.

Snarky cynical one liners, shrieking talking heads, smug bloggers... it's all noise. Nothing actually gets thought about. No 2 people with even slightly different opinions can trade ideas, let alone reach consensus. Both sides are doing it, and we're trapped in a ridiculous cycle and it's dumbing down the whole affair. I really have no idea who's to blame either. Manipulative politicians, ratings hungry media, a simple minded populace. I couldn't say. Just sick of it is all. Both sides trotting out their bulldogs to yell at the other side. What's the point?

Anyway, no offense Saliph. I do agree with the guy and all. I just hate the method and what it's doing to the discourse.
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Totally disagree. His guest refuses to answer the question, and he calls him on it, making his point admirably clear. Way too many politicians are allowed to evade questions these days.
 
I feel all the Romney adverts are starting to make an impact in Tampa. Was on a business trip and got a little drunk at Chicago Airport yesterday and I was surprised how anti-Obama some of me coworkers were. The generally view is he promised to fix the economy and has failed so its time for ANOTHER change.
 
Indeed, McCain and Rice would have us at war with Syria and Iran. You just know that Romney gives very few fecks about foreign policy so would just let the hawks do whatever they wanted so long as he could make it a money-generating venture too.
 
Saliph said:
Totally disagree. His guest refuses to answer the question, and he calls him on it, making his point admirably clear. Way too many politicians are allowed to evade questions these days.
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Perhaps, but it's all part of the shtick these days. Ambush a guest with a particular admittedly hypothetical scenario and make a spectacle out of it He didn't make his point admirably clear at all. He's immediately screaming and drumming up an outrage. It's a waste of my time. I don't need some blowhard in the press telling me what to be outraged about. I need them to help me understand the world around me by taking advantage of the fact gathering resources they have and distilling the events of the time into some sort of narrative. They can keep their pandering shows of outrage to themselves. The jackass congressman wouldn't answer the question. The interviewer could make that clear in one sentence and send him on his way. The rest is just some point scoring. Two adults that can't let each other finish a sentence and that's somehow constructive?

You admire him because "...he challenges them on it like a boss, and he doesn't shy away from calling bullshit on bullshit."

Do you think the fans of Fox News don't trumpet the same qualities for their attack dogs who trump their guests "like a boss"? "Oh yeah that dem got pwned by O'Reilly!". Meanwhile I'm sat in the middle getting screamed at in both ears. This interviewing style is endemic to the outlets with a predetermined political leaning just looking to score points for their side. I very sincerely, believe it's getting my country nowhere, serving only to harden the extremes on both sides, reinforcing the false belief that there can be no consensus. That's the tragedy and that's what I feel when I hear 2 regrettably influential adults screaming over one another about what should be an important issue.
 
brad-dyrak said:
Perhaps, but it's all part of the shtick these days. Ambush a guest with a particular admittedly hypothetical scenario and make a spectacle out of it He didn't make his point admirably clear at all. He's immediately screaming and drumming up an outrage. It's a waste of my time. I don't need some blowhard in the press telling me what to be outraged about. I need them to help me understand the world around me by taking advantage of the fact gathering resources they have and distilling the events of the time into some sort of narrative. They can keep their pandering shows of outrage to themselves. The jackass congressman wouldn't answer the question. The interviewer could make that clear in one sentence and send him on his way. The rest is just some point scoring. Two adults that can't let each other finish a sentence and that's somehow constructive?

You admire him because "...he challenges them on it like a boss, and he doesn't shy away from calling bullshit on bullshit."

Do you think the fans of Fox News don't trumpet the same qualities for their attack dogs who trump their guests "like a boss"? "Oh yeah that dem got pwned by O'Reilly!". Meanwhile I'm sat in the middle getting screamed at in both ears. This interviewing style is endemic to the outlets with a predetermined political leaning just looking to score points for their side. I very sincerely, believe it's getting my country nowhere, serving only to harden the extremes on both sides, reinforcing the false belief that there can be no consensus. That's the tragedy and that's what I feel when I hear 2 regrettably influential adults screaming over one another about what should be an important issue.
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I see your point, but I would point out that Fox News is usually wrong in their outrage. It helps to have the facts and common sense on your side, in which case outrage is often justified.

And I'm also annoyed when reporters won't let the other guy answer, but when they refuse to answer they should be called on it.
 
mjs020294 said:
I feel all the Romney adverts are starting to make an impact in Tampa. Was on a business trip and got a little drunk at Chicago Airport yesterday and I was surprised how anti-Obama some of me coworkers were. The generally view is he promised to fix the economy and has failed so its time for ANOTHER change.
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My arch conservative relatives were in town over the weekend. Same old same old from them, liberals bad etc etc., but was shocked to hear my sister is leaning towards Romney. My sister! Seemingly all to do with her school district having to share money with other, more needy districts. Somehow that's Obama's fault (not that it doesn't sound like a good idea to me). It beggars belief.

Given the hand he was dealt, Obama for me has been absolutely splendid. People so quickly forgot just how close to the absolute shitter this economy almost was. 4 more years please.
 
Saliph said:
I see your point, but I would point out that Fox News is usually wrong in their outrage. It helps to have the facts and common sense on your side, in which case outrage is often justified.

And I'm also annoyed when reporters won't let the other guy answer, but when they refuse to answer they should be called on it.
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Don't get me wrong either. In my own head I am positive that Fox is absolute garbage and that they do distort the facts if they haven't already made them up. I will almost surely agree with the politics of MSNBC on whatever they're reporting.

I'm just looking at it from the whole holistic, inclusive USA thing. I don't think people minds are changed either way, eg. Fox will never, ever change my mind. The problem is that we know there are people on the right that feel the same way about the MSNBC. I feel like the only way to cause someone to question something if for them to reach their own conclusions by finding their own way. An emotive press seems like one bound to slant and spin, then becoming associated with a particular wing, and thereby ignored by "the other half".

Anyway, I really don't know. I fully concede I could be wrong about much of this. What I really do know is that this stuff just doesn't work on me. I guess the fact that these outlets do what they do, likely means that they believe it works, and they're sure to have teams of folks working on this smarter about this stuff than I am. Or maybe they're just ratings driven, throwing their views out there to enthrall and entertain the like minded.

I'll also freely admit that I can't sort out where the hell half of this country is coming from. Living in Portland Oregon has actually made this much worse.
 
I propose that in the debates candidates should be sworn in like they would in a court of law. Give Mittens a coloring book to put his hand on and Obama a Bible.

Then prosecute them for perjuring themselves.
 
I think Rachel Maddow is one of the best on TV these days. She's incredibly smart and extremely respectful of her guests and rarely yells at them like others. I don't like Matthews as much because he isn't very good at asking direct questions and too often makes himself a part of the story.
 
Sir Matt said:
I propose that in the debates candidates should be sworn in like they would in a court of law. Give Mittens a coloring book to put his hand on and Obama a Bible.

Then prosecute them for perjuring themselves.
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I like that idea....except I don't think Obama believes in god.
 
Is there another serious political party in the Western world besides the GOP which doesn't have environmental policy? It's always "energy".

ETA: Just curious, where would Ryan's cuts leave the school this teacher comes from?
 
RedKaos said:
"He's an Arab!"

"No ma'am, he's a decent family man"

lolwut?
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Come on, you know he didn't mean it that way. Just a few months ago he vehemently defended Huma Abedin in a great speech in Congress.

Also, his concession speech in '08. Can't imagine Romney being half as classy as that.
 
Will Romney be able push for moderate reforms, in office, without being a traitor to the more radical political goals of his party and donors?

With the legitimacy of neoliberal political parties eroded and social protest on the rise - I'm baffled how Ryan's plan can be seen as viable.
 
I really hope Obama win, the reactions from the far right will surely be absolutely hysterical.
 
Saliph said:
Come on, you know he didn't mean it that way. Just a few months ago he vehemently defended Huma Abedin in a great speech in Congress.

Also, his concession speech in '08. Can't imagine Romney being half as classy as that.
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True. It does expose the clueless lunacy he knew he was having to deal with though. Probably got plenty of practice talking with his running mate.
 
Rubio is a decent guy....at least he can deliver his lines properly.....bet he was back stage loving Clint flop thinking this is going to be easily following that.
 
Clint was pretty much representative of a major part of the republicans....a senile old git, who talks to himself and rambles on about nothing. Major embarrassment.
 
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