US Politics
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
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America is such a weird fecking place
Whoever wrote that surely has to be taking the piss, right?
You'd think Jordan would go out of his way to avoid the spotlight at this point.
feck democrats
Did the Onion write this? A Robert Mueller cardboard cutout? After his testimony I'm surprised it wasn't just shredded along with the Michael Avenatti candles
Eboue is the vanguard
What’s the context of the second part of the second tweet?
Stupid twitter stuff, but it basically refers to a liberal twitter user who is hostile to most leftism (Chalotte Clymer). ANd also the tendency of liberals on twitter to reference bush-era villains (scooter libby) positively. and also a harry potter reference, which is common too.
How about you start hating AOC when she actually drops the ball policy wise. Twitter stuff is shit anyways. Expecting AOC to denounce someone like Clymer is idiotic. When she supports a corporate establishment Democrat against some progressive Challenger, then you can complain.
I don't care about denouncing but she did just retweet David Frum.
And in actual real stuff she still hasn't endorsed Bernie, the only candidate fighting for the things she claims to care about.
Am glad she hadn't endorsed Bernie. Hope she endorses Warren. If Bernie had any sense he would drop out after his heart attack but the allure of winning the presidency is too much I guess.
Seems to me AOC could hurt Bernie or Warren by endorsing them. I know she clearly has her staunch supporters but Trump and Co (and some of the dem establishment) has made sure she s hot potatoes.
She literally calls herself a 'Democratic' Socialist. Ok while its a fecking meaningless term, I would hope AOC would endorse Bernie just on a sheer competence level. If she came out for Warren it would mean AOC has literally no idea why she call herself socialist, which would be rather worrying.
Also white women are bad and shouldn't run for president. This is a joke sort of
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Surely you can see how actual socialists (which she claims to be) don't see it that way.
I see why Bernie fans want her fully in, even I wanted her to endorse Bernie some time back. It's just that now I don't agree with criticism of Warren by so many folks in Bernie camp. She would be probably be worse than Bernie foreign policy wise (assuming Bernie is strong enough to control army and CIA) but otherwise IMO she has a better shot of getting some domestic reforms done than Bernie.
It is also more important for AOC to support and push right policies in Congress than try to prove her socialist credentials by being in Bernie camp. There is one big difference between her and Bernie. She is actually a Democrat and can't completely jeopardize her position in the party. As it is they will jump on the first chance to get her pegged down.
So that's what it is then. Immediately selling out your supposed ideals for political power. For the first time in living memory an actual socialist is running for president here and he has a punchers chance to win. And what is Ocasio doing? She's doing epic clap backs on twitter.
I believe she will endorse Bernie at some point.
If she endorses Warren, it will only be if she actually moved towards policies Bernie stands for and Bernie has dropped out.
Bernie has not indicated he will drop out any time soon. And he clearly is running to serve the American people and not the corporations as Biden and now Warren are doing.
She won't. Mostly because I don't actually think she knows well anything about socialism, sadly. At best she seem like a very nice liberal which is better than 99% of american politics these days but its not socialism.
I'm guessing she will not endorse anyone unless its a straight face off with Biden. But again I think the lack of endorsement comes due to her not knowing the difference between Bernie and Warren.
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I know everyone calls Bernie a socialist. Personally I would say Corbyn is. Bernie is simply saying what we all expect in the UK. Bernie is not talking about nationalization for example.
obviously she shouldn't waste a single moment renouncing. retweeing is a bit more worrying.
on the policy side, after the green new deal which seemed to upset most of the party, her latest poverty plan is much less ambitious than that of tlaib (who has never called herself a socialist afaik)
(thread)
So basically you got nothing other than her plan not being radical or strong enough. Like I said let her go full establishment route then start piling on her. Even Bernie would not pass these kind of tests given he supported some questionable legislations for the benefit of his constituents in the past as well.
Stop being so over dramatic. She has not sold out on anything yet. It is only you and few others who have made endorsing Bernie some kind of purity test any true democratic socialist must pass. She is a freshman congressman and will have plenty of opportunities in future to prove her credentials. Besides your whole argument is based on proclamation that Bernie is a better candidate than Warren. No way to prove the same objectively. AOC has supported policies of both Bernie and Warren she agrees with. Just the other day she liked his take down of billionaires.you asked for policy evidence and then rejected it. you said, let het go "full establishment", and i think the very muted policy rollout from her and the equally muted establishment response is a good indication of where she is headed.
bernie spent literally decades outside the mainstream of the party sticking to his stand, while all this has been within the first 10 months of her taking office. there is simply no comparison.
Let her oppose gun control measures like Bernie has in the past and then we will talk. Her first 10 months in the office has been amazing against any kind of barometer. She pushed the notion of high taxation into national limelight, took on likes of Pelosi when required, has been able to deflect orchestrated right wing media attacks while doing her normal job as a congresswoman for her district. feck knows what the folks on left want if even someone like her is not good enough. Is there a chance she turns into a fraud like Obama? Yes. But let's wait for that to happen rather than start barking way before.
You can call it a purity test if you want but anyone who doesn't endorse the only socialist running should stop calling themselves a socialist. It's that simple.
ok
I wish House dems would make it a law to wear a jacket in Congressional hearings just to annoy this cnut.
You seem to be suggesting that AOC's primary victory was itself independent of Bernie's 2016 failed campaign - she was a staffer there. The infrastructure around her - Justice Dems, Our Rev, DSA, all mobilised at the same time after he lost. She now has the spotlight and influence comparable to what Bernie has in June 2016. How she uses it
The fact is she was one of the very few people to get a DSA endorsement. That should mean something. (The clue is in the second letter). Warren is a "proud" "capitalist to her bones". Bernie has a theory of change involving mass movements. This shouldn't be a hard choice for a "socialist". The other 2 DSA-endorsed people I know about (Julia Salazar, Lee carter) have endorsed him.
The fact is she was one of the very few people to get a DSA endorsement. That should mean something. (The clue is in the second letter). Warren is a "proud" "capitalist to her bones". Bernie has a theory of change involving mass movements. This shouldn't be a hard choice for a "socialist". The other 2 DSA-endorsed people I know about (Julia Salazar, Lee carter) have endorsed him.
I doubt neither of them are true socialists. Not even democratic socialists. Their policies don’t reflect it as far as I understand the term.
You keep moving the goal posts. First it was about how AOC has already strayed from whatever idealistic path you want her to be on but then had no answers for Bernie himself supporting problematic legislations in the past. Now it is about her not returning the favor she got from whatever organisation with some labels that she ought to be indebted to.
American political system is built up on capitalism only. Both Bernie and Warren pretty much have similar socialist platforms in medicare for all, high taxation and breaking up of big banks. I mean the wall street has openly revolted against Warren so stop with trying to make her out to be some kind of crony capitalist beacon. You are in dreamland if you believe Bernie would be participating in mass movements if he did become the president. I am sure congress would be falling over themselves to pass his measures if he is instigating public movements against them in their constituencies. Neither will he be allowed to disrupt the wall street in the way his supporters may want. So Warren's plan of trying to establish solid regulatory framework around existing capitalist structures is much more feasible.
Regardless, this desperate cry for AOC to endorse Bernie as some sort of quid pro quo for any help in her own primary or election seems to be against the very principles Bernie himself would want to establish. She has supported pretty much every socialist policy of Bernie and Warren. That should be enough but Bernie supported have lost all perspective in this election fight as I see it.
I absolutely believed that "Bernie Bros" was an unfounded smear campaign in 2016, perpetuated by a combination of pro Hillary journalists and white liberal women desperate to have a women president elected. But some of the stuff against Warren I see in some pro Bernie quarters is bizarre to me, especially since there seems to be concerted campaign to label her as a liberal in the vein of Hillary and strip away any progressive credentials from her. If I was a progressive in US, I would be over the moon with two serious contenders being in play this time even if I considered Bernie as the best case scenario but each to their own.
This is why I don't identify myself as a "socialist" and definitely not as "democratic socialist" a term I don't even believe makes sense. I am not a socialist or a capitalist. People need to stop using these outdated 19th century labels for 21st century mixed economy debates imo
@crappycraperson
Gun Control has nothing to do with any of the economic issues you are talking about re: democratic socialist labeling.
Gun Control has nothing to do with any of the economic issues you are talking about re: democratic socialist labeling.
They really don't.
They mean specific things. They aren't outdated at all. It's a fundamental difference in how one believes society should be ordered.
It got outdated in 92 when the less evil Clinton got elected
Although from a pragmatic, pick the worst of the lot perspective, I just can't knock AOC. She's doing her best and pushing the conversation as well.
But, if she believes what she believes in, then her endorsing sanders is an easy decision. Why she hasn't done it yet, God only knows. Sanders is clearly the candidate with better leftist ideas.
I also think she doesn't owe sanders anything. Berbatrick almost insinuates her victory to sanders 2016 campaign but I'm fairly sure she wasn't endorsed by my revolution till very late in the game.
But, if she believes what she believes in, then her endorsing sanders is an easy decision. Why she hasn't done it yet, God only knows. Sanders is clearly the candidate with better leftist ideas.
I also think she doesn't owe sanders anything. Berbatrick almost insinuates her victory to sanders 2016 campaign but I'm fairly sure she wasn't endorsed by my revolution till very late in the game.
Obama hasn't endorsed Biden either. They are all waiting to see who looks like they will win before coming out of hiding.
Obama wont endorse anyone.
He will simply stand with the nominee.
If he endorses his former VP he would be alienating the voters of other candidates.