US Politics

@Cal? I think there are some fundamental incentive problems with the concept of fiduciary duty - that every corporation is obligated to maximize every single ounce of profit out of an enterprise for shareholders.

There is the well known problem of dispersed environmental costs like pollution. There is no proper mechanism that addresses the fact that any corporation whose sole goal is to maximize profit is going have the incentive to wantonly pollute and in fact do anything immoral/illegal they can get away with - dangerous labour conditions solely to cut labour costs and increase profits. Then you have the problem that this fiduciary duty scheme incentivizes planned obsolescence which inherently strips value from consumers.

So ultimately the core problem with this scheme of valuing shareholder profits so much is that the cost of elevating shareholder profit harms society as a whole, wage workers of all forms, consumers and specific communities that are all collateral damage sacrificed for the holy goal of maximizing shareholder profits. When the investor class sets the rules that are supposed to provide a check and balance all it does is increase the inequality because by design corporations protect shareholders from any actual responsibility for unfairness, dangerous labour conditions, environmental damage from pollution, etc. They are completely insulated from risk and thus never pay the consequences because by design shareholders can never get sued. So it becomes this tricky scheme to avoid any accountability. If a corporation causes billions in monetary damage and health problems in human damage, the shareholders waltz away just losing a fraction of their investment wealth but bearing no responsibility for the ultimate cost of their pursuit in coin accumulation, certainly not bearing that cost themselves.

The leisure class has stripped a lot of fair value from the bottom 90% by socializing the risk across all of society while privatizing the profits solely for themselves. The 'economy is booming' yet most are still struggling to make ends meet up. All this unemployment single data point mentions but no talk of how much under-employment there is. Sure people can get "a job" but there is a problem when the available jobs don't cover costs of living. So no, shareholders do not deserve all the profit and elevating them above all else has caused a lot more damage than good for the vast majority of people.
 
From my perspective it was @fishfingers15 post that was condescending with his repeated "loathing" of his "protest voters" that 1) don't actually exist in the caricature form he paints them (they are a mythic creation of Clinton's people after the fact) and 2) made no difference to the end result of the election as the facts show.
When I read his original post and Eboue's response, there's a certain respectfulness towards each other despite whatever hard feelings, where both say they can understand the other's perspective but still disagree with it for various reasons. That element was totally missing in some of the responses.

And sorry, I just really dislike how you adressed him throughout the exchange, especially keeping in mind his personal situation. But it makes no sense to take that any further.
 
When I read his original post and Eboue's response, there's a certain respectfulness towards each other despite whatever hard feelings, where both say they can understand the other's perspective but still disagree with it for various reasons. That element was totally missing in some of the responses.

And sorry, I just really dislike how you adressed him throughout the exchange, especially keeping in mind his personal situation. But it makes no sense to take that any further.

Well when someone starts off saying they "loathe" you, your friends and family for completely irrational and/or selfish reasons it doesn't start things off on a tone of mutual respect or demonstrate a desire for mutual understanding of other people's situations.
And I dislike how he elevated his personal situation as more important than anyone else's absolutely valid and real personal reasons for not voting Clinton.
 
Why should the wealth be evenly distributed? If someone studies hard until he is on his mid-twenties or so, then builds a startup from scratch with some good idea, works 15 hours per day in doing so, why he should have the same amount of money as some lazy feck who doesn't do anything?

I am all for not having these absurd cases where someone has 150b and his workers don't have enough to eat - which in turn allows the person to actually pay lawmakers to set his policy agenda, allowing him to become even richer in future - but having equally distributed wealth in my opinion is equally harmful. There should be a middle ground, and as I see the politics, it is all about finding it.
Just because on a continuum there is a mid point does not mean that it is correct. Also, as has been pointed out on several occasions on this very page, wealth being evenly distributed meaning "someone studies hard until he is on his mid-twenties or so (having)... the same amount of money as some lazy feck who doesn't do anything" is an incredibly literal understanding of what clearly refers to the sharing of common wealth. I have never met a single person, even in the rarified atmosphere of student unions, who believes that all salaries should be identical irrespective of skill and contribution and I am surprised you think that is what anyone would mean by that term.
 
I mean, you want me not to whine about my personal issues (both emotional and financial) and just understand this is collateral damage of alienating people by nominating centrists like Clinton and decades of right leaning policy? I mean, feck me right? This is the right time to make a point about the unfair system with a very real chance of swinging the judiciary to the left for a good generation, with good chance to remove citizens united and gerry mandering etc? feck all that, just sit on the corner and wait for the 2020 left wave? Got it man, will never complain to you or to anyone else in this board. Thanks a ton.
No of course and if that's how I came across I apologise. My problem is this moralism, which ever way we vote we are hurting someone as the examples I used show.

I'm not saying let's only act in way that hopes for revolutionary politics or that capitalism itself needs to end right now but it's been nearly two years since Trump and the republicans won the election and still we haven't move from blaming Susan Sarandon, fictional myth of the Bernie Bro and yes Hilary Clinton who while was the shittest covered cog in the machine was still none the less a cog.

The common sense should be that Trump and the republicans are the regurgitate outcome of the past 30 odd years of american politics but instead what we have is that they are bad man who say bad things. And I don't blame people for thinking this line as it's nice to think it's a problem of individuals and that political thinking = clapping when Stephen Colber finishes one of his zingers but firstly this isn't working and secondly if we don't think critically about the current system how the hell are we suppose to stop its outcomes.
 
@Cal? I think there are some fundamental incentive problems with the concept of fiduciary duty - that every corporation is obligated to maximize every single ounce of profit out of an enterprise for shareholders.

There is the well known problem of dispersed environmental costs like pollution. There is no proper mechanism that addresses the fact that any corporation whose sole goal is to maximize profit is going have the incentive to wantonly pollute and in fact do anything immoral/illegal they can get away with - dangerous labour conditions solely to cut labour costs and increase profits. Then you have the problem that this fiduciary duty scheme incentivizes planned obsolescence which inherently strips value from consumers.

So ultimately the core problem with this scheme of valuing shareholder profits so much is that the cost of elevating shareholder profit harms society as a whole, wage workers of all forms, consumers and specific communities that are all collateral damage sacrificed for the holy goal of maximizing shareholder profits. When the investor class sets the rules that are supposed to provide a check and balance all it does is increase the inequality because by design corporations protect shareholders from any actual responsibility for unfairness, dangerous labour conditions, environmental damage from pollution, etc. They are completely insulated from risk and thus never pay the consequences because by design shareholders can never get sued. So it becomes this tricky scheme to avoid any accountability. If a corporation causes billions in monetary damage and health problems in human damage, the shareholders waltz away just losing a fraction of their investment wealth but bearing no responsibility for the ultimate cost of their pursuit in coin accumulation, certainly not bearing that cost themselves.

The leisure class has stripped a lot of fair value from the bottom 90% by socializing the risk across all of society while privatizing the profits solely for themselves. The 'economy is booming' yet most are still struggling to make ends meet up. All this unemployment single data point mentions but no talk of how much under-employment there is. Sure people can get "a job" but there is a problem when the available jobs don't cover costs of living. So no, shareholders do not deserve all the profit and elevating them above all else has caused a lot more damage than good for the vast majority of people.
This probably deserves a longer answer, but for now, I haven’t said that shareholders deserve ALL the profit. In this very same thread, someone described shareholders as leeches and suggested workers deserved ALL the profit.

There is some middle ground and I’m not the one taking the extremist view that one side deserve everything.
 
Most of this is true but at the same time I think the wider point being made is that a lot of Americans who voted in 2016 weren't in the luxury position of being able to abstain completely or vote for a third-party candidate - for plenty going for the 'least bad' of Hilary and Trump was their only viable option, because a Trump Presidency was going to be demonstrably worse for them than a Hilary one.
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And there's million in the global south who haven't got luxury of US citizens picking wither it be a man or women blowing up their children. This is the problem with chucking around moral blame on how people vote, it politically archive nothing and divides people when they should be united.

I don't think she would've been great by any means but there's a whole host of laws Trump's enacted that have already had a negative effect on Americans that wouldn't have been enacted by Hilary. And a vote for her didn't need to be an absolute endorsement of all her politics - Sanders had done well enough during his primary challenge to provide the left-wing in the US with plenty of momentum, and certainly leftist voices would've stood a better chance of having some of their policies and positions adopted with Clinton in the White House than with Trump, who isn't beholden to them at all. Indeed Hilary's willingness to flip on issues like gay marriage in the past show her willingness to change her mind on something when it's politically beneficial - with plenty of pressure and the threat of a primary challenge in 2020 she may have been more willing to do this on certain economic matters.
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There was no chance she would have moved especially on economic matters. As soon as she would have got into the white house then the second term Obama arguments would've have been out in force - Just be happy it isn't a Republican in the White House. Be hey that's something of a argument if it works but telling people things are going to turn into hell if you don't vote for the x person as you we know simply doesn't work.

The one thing the centrists had over the left(And rightfully so) was that they could win power, now that's gone they are useless.
 
workers create wealth, they deserve the profit
Without the guy who has the idea and implements it in the first place, and without the shareholders who put the money in the idea, workers don't get to become workers and company doesn't exist in the first place.

However, the current way how things work is absurd. In one place we have the richest person in the world, while his workers are starving. I don't know why no-one is pushing for a minimal wage based on company wealth, in addition to national minimal wage. As in, national minimal wage to be 15USD for example, but minimal wage for ultra-rich companies like Apple, Amazon, Google etc to be higher (likely as an equation of their profit).
 
Just because on a continuum there is a mid point does not mean that it is correct. Also, as has been pointed out on several occasions on this very page, wealth being evenly distributed meaning "someone studies hard until he is on his mid-twenties or so (having)... the same amount of money as some lazy feck who doesn't do anything" is an incredibly literal understanding of what clearly refers to the sharing of common wealth. I have never met a single person, even in the rarified atmosphere of student unions, who believes that all salaries should be identical irrespective of skill and contribution and I am surprised you think that is what anyone would mean by that term.
I got attacked from posters for lying on being left wing after making that post, so yes, people were meaning that.
Who does revan think provides food and housing and medical care for middle class wankers who study until their mid twenties?
A combination of part-time work, family, scholarship and student-debt. On my case, it was the first three.

people who work 15 hours a day because they choose to instead of circumstances need a therapist not buckets of money
Most of ultra-successful people do it, though money is not always the main (or at all) incentive.
 
No of course and if that's how I came across I apologise. My problem is this moralism, which ever way we vote we are hurting someone as the examples I used show.

I'm not saying let's only act in way that hopes for revolutionary politics or that capitalism itself needs to end right now but it's been nearly two years since Trump and the republicans won the election and still we haven't move from blaming Susan Sarandon, fictional myth of the Bernie Bro and yes Hilary Clinton who while was the shittest covered cog in the machine was still none the less a cog.

The common sense should be that Trump and the republicans are the regurgitate outcome of the past 30 odd years of american politics but instead what we have is that they are bad man who say bad things. And I don't blame people for thinking this line as it's nice to think it's a problem of individuals and that political thinking = clapping when Stephen Colber finishes one of his zingers but firstly this isn't working and secondly if we don't think critically about the current system how the hell are we suppose to stop its outcomes.
Then the disagreement seems to be if political movements like those behind Trump/Le Pen/AfD/UKIP and suchlike are considerably worse than their more-to-the-center counterparts, both short term and in the long run. I totally understand the argument - and share the view - that these proto-fascists are the result of decades-long general social and political developments in which the political mainstream played a big part. And that it can't be understood without seriously looking at capitalism as a general societal setting. But I have a hard time understanding the notion that while Trump in power is bad, Clinton would have been, on the whole, equally bad.
 
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Then the disagreement seems to be if political movements like those behind Trump/Le Pen/AfD/UKIP and suchlike are considerably worse than their more-to-the-center counterparts, both short term and in the long run. I totally understand the argument - and share the view - that these proto-fascists are the result of decades-long general social and political developments in which the political mainstream played a big part. And that it can't be understood without seriously looking at capitalism as a general societal setting. But I have a hard time understanding the notion that while Trump in power is bad, Clinton would have been, on the whole, equally bad.

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding how and why Trump won the election - the key voting blocks that voted Trump and why. The independents and moderates among working/middle class in many of these swing states felt lied to and deceived by Obama's promise of change and hope. Obama didn't deliver in their eyes because things like wage growth were still bottomed out. It wasn't just white nationalism as is constantly mentioned for why Trump won. But those left behind by neo-liberal policies that had no trust for establishment Democrat standard bearers. Michael Moore identified this important voting block early on:

Michael Moore said:
Midwest Math, or Welcome to Our Rust Belt Brexit. I believe Trump is going to focus much of his attention on the four blue states in the rustbelt of the upper Great Lakes – Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Four traditionally Democratic states – but each of them have elected a Republican governor since 2010 (only Pennsylvania has now finally elected a Democrat). In the Michigan primary in March, more Michiganders came out to vote for the Republicans (1.32 million) that the Democrats (1.19 million). Trump is ahead of Hillary in the latest polls in Pennsylvania and tied with her in Ohio. Tied? How can the race be this close after everything Trump has said and done? Well maybe it’s because he’s said (correctly) that the Clintons’ support of NAFTA helped to destroy the industrial states of the Upper Midwest. Trump is going to hammer Clinton on this and her support of TPP and other trade policies that have royally screwed the people of these four states. When Trump stood in the shadow of a Ford Motor factory during the Michigan primary, he threatened the corporation that if they did indeed go ahead with their planned closure of that factory and move it to Mexico, he would slap a 35% tariff on any Mexican-built cars shipped back to the United States. It was sweet, sweet music to the ears of the working class of Michigan, and when he tossed in his threat to Apple that he would force them to stop making their iPhones in China and build them here in America, well, hearts swooned and Trump walked away with a big victory that should have gone to the governor next-door, John Kasich.

From Green Bay to Pittsburgh, this, my friends, is the middle of England – broken, depressed, struggling, the smokestacks strewn across the countryside with the carcass of what we use to call the Middle Class. Angry, embittered working (and nonworking) people who were lied to by the trickle-down of Reagan and abandoned by Democrats who still try to talk a good line but are really just looking forward to rub one out with a lobbyist from Goldman Sachs who’ll write them nice big check before leaving the room. What happened in the UK with Brexit is going to happen here. Elmer Gantry shows up looking like Boris Johnson and just says whatever shit he can make up to convince the masses that this is their chance! To stick to ALL of them, all who wrecked their American Dream! And now The Outsider, Donald Trump, has arrived to clean house! You don’t have to agree with him! You don’t even have to like him! He is your personal Molotov cocktail to throw right into the center of the bastards who did this to you! SEND A MESSAGE! TRUMP IS YOUR MESSENGER!

This effect was borne out by some data analysis after the election:

FiveThirtyEight said:
Economic hardship doesn’t explain Trump’s support. In fact, quite the opposite: Clinton easily won most low-income areas. But anxiety is a different story. Trump, as FiveThirtyEight contributor Jed Kolko noted immediately after the election, won most counties — and improved on Romney’s performance — where a large share of jobs are vulnerable to outsourcing or automation. And while there is no standard measure of economic anxiety, a wide range of other plausible proxies shows the same pattern.

Factoring in the strong opposition to Trump among most racial and ethnic minorities, Trump significantly outperformed Romney in counties where residents had lower credit scores and in counties where more men have stopped working.“Where more men have stopped working” refers to the change since 2000 in the share of men ages 25 to 54 who are employed, according to data from the American Community Survey.

The list goes on: More subprime loans? More Trump support. More residents receiving disability payments? More Trump support. Lower earnings among full-time workers? More Trump support. “Trump Country,” as my colleague Andrew Flowers described it shortly after the election, isn’t the part of America where people are in the worst financial shape; it’s the part of America where their economic prospects are on the steepest decline.Voting results are from Dave Leip’s Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections and ABC News. Credit scores and subprime loan data are from the Urban Institute. Economic and demographic data are from various government sources, primarily the U.S. Census Bureau. All claims about the predictive power of various variables are based on linear regressions with the swing in the two-party vote share as the dependent variable. To make sure my findings weren’t only picking up Trump’s strong support in rural areas, I also ran a version of the regressions with a control for population density (thanks to Kolko for that data). All results are significant at p < .05 using both population-weighted and unweighted county-level regressions.

And now Trump's biggest advantage is really the economy. On paper its booming. And a lot of people are seeing gains. The message the Democrats really need to be focused on countering is that with that backdrop of key voting blocks that swung the election to Trump in mind this should be troubling news:

CNBC - Sept.7 said:
There's been another interesting trend that is peculiar to the Trump economy: a drifting of benefits from urban centers to nonmetropolitan areas, which are seeing their first collective population growth since 2010.

Trump's tax cuts "should deliver greater tax relief to rural areas where there is a higher rate of small business owners who will benefit from the favorable pass-through tax rates," Joseph Song, U.S. economist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch, said in a recent note to clients.

So a lot of the short term benefits of the tax cuts and deregulation are flowing to some of these communities that felt ignored by the Clinton-Obama years while the long term problems won't be felt yet and even then more dispersed. If Democrats really want to combat the advantage the Republicans have gained in messaging they have to stop focusing on issues that won't inspire the independents, moderates and apathetic progressives and grow some courage on championing universal healthcare - their best winning issue for the next decade.
 
Perhaps not the thread but capitalism never sorted out how to deal with the stock market being itself a driver, in most cases a larger driver than the business in the market.

Simple example: you're the CEO of a major telco, and have a choice: do you invest 100m in a capital project that will give users 5g in 3 years and be a crucial step in fending off competition then, or do you release 100m in dividends? Well the CEO reports to the board, who are appointed by shareholders. The majority of shares are owned by institutional investors. Therefore they encourage him to do the dividend, take their earnings and potentially move on when their technology can't compete in 3 years. The investors have done best for their clients, the CEO has done best for his board but the company has made the wrong long term decision.

Plus the CEO is paid 300x average employee salary and knows he'll get a golden handshake before the 3 years even arrives.
 
Perhaps not the thread but capitalism never sorted out how to deal with the stock market being itself a driver, in most cases a larger driver than the business in the market.

Simple example: you're the CEO of a major telco, and have a choice: do you invest 100m in a capital project that will give users 5g in 3 years and be a crucial step in fending off competition then, or do you release 100m in dividends? Well the CEO reports to the board, who are appointed by shareholders. The majority of shares are owned by institutional investors. Therefore they encourage him to do the dividend, take their earnings and potentially move on when their technology can't compete in 3 years. The investors have done best for their clients, the CEO has done best for his board but the company has made the wrong long term decision.

Plus the CEO is paid 300x average employee salary and knows he'll get a golden handshake before the 3 years even arrives.

Announcing to not invest in 5g (the same as not announcing to invest) will cost shareholders also through the value of the stock. So they'd be on board with investing too.
 
Then the disagreement seems to be if political movements like those behind Trump/Le Pen/AfD/UKIP and suchlike are considerably worse than their more-to-the-center counterparts, both short term and in the long run. I totally understand the argument - and share the view - that these proto-fascists are the result of decades-long general social and political developments in which the political mainstream played a big part. And that it can't be understood without seriously looking at capitalism as a general societal setting. But I have a hard time understanding the notion that while Trump in power is bad, Clinton would have been, on the whole, equally bad.
I don't think Clinton in power would have been equally as bad, I think that Clinton being in power would have not stop the forces that caused Trump.
 
I don't think Clinton in power would have been equally as bad, I think that Clinton being in power would have not stop the forces that caused Trump.
This I can agree with instantly. But the difference I mean is still the one between a severely paranoid right wing mass movement in opposition for four years, or one with a president in charge of the country.
 
But the difference I mean is still the one between a severely paranoid right wing mass movement in opposition for four years, or one with a president in charge of the country.
Agree but that doesn't as we know with Brexit and Trump bring people out to vote for your cause. The democratic party since 2008 have been playing a extremely dangerous game through policy of essentially drowning the country and come election day seeing how long can American hold their breath. At some point it's going to go horrible wrong.
 
Announcing to not invest in 5g (the same as not announcing to invest) will cost shareholders also through the value of the stock. So they'd be on board with investing too.

Yes it is not the best example. No board will stop a growing company from investing further even if it means delay in dividends. Amazon pretty much grew on similar strategy for so long. The issue is making obscene profits and still refusing to increase wages or benefits of workers at lowest totem pole. It may reduce profits but firms like Amazon, Wallmart, Apple etc can easily afford a reduction in their current profit margin.
 
Without the guy who has the idea and implements it in the first place, and without the shareholders who put the money in the idea, workers don't get to become workers and company doesn't exist in the first place.

However, the current way how things work is absurd. In one place we have the richest person in the world, while his workers are starving. I don't know why no-one is pushing for a minimal wage based on company wealth, in addition to national minimal wage. As in, national minimal wage to be 15USD for example, but minimal wage for ultra-rich companies like Apple, Amazon, Google etc to be higher (likely as an equation of their profit).
Because that doesn’t really make sense. Just because their company is selling a better product, doing well, doesn’t mean the workers are doing anything differently.

Selling burgers at McDonald is the same as selling burgers at your local burger place.

Increasing the minimum wage across the country should be done though.
 
If it’s hurting them in the polls for the elections, he kind of has a point.

It's the same strategy Obama took after Bush. And now we have bankers up to their old tricks, a torturer heading the CIA, and a rapist on the court. There have to be consequences or these people will keep doing it.
 
It's the same strategy Obama took after Bush. And now we have bankers up to their old tricks, a torturer heading the CIA, and a rapist on the court. There have to be consequences or these people will keep doing it.
I’m aware of that too. But if pressing the issue of Kavanaugh prevents them from taking back the seats they need in the first place to have the chance of impeachment, then it’s not worth it right now. But yeah these are Democrats we’re talking about. And a lot of women are pissed off too. We’ll see.
 
Because that doesn’t really make sense. Just because their company is selling a better product, doing well, doesn’t mean the workers are doing anything differently.

Selling burgers at McDonald is the same as selling burgers at your local burger place.

Increasing the minimum wage across the country should be done though.
Why should a capitalist increase the minimum wage if the workers aren't doing anything different ?

Without the guy who has the idea and implements it in the first place, and without the shareholders who put the money in the idea, workers don't get to become workers and company doesn't exist in the first place.



 
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Because that doesn’t really make sense. Just because their company is selling a better product, doing well, doesn’t mean the workers are doing anything differently.

Selling burgers at McDonald is the same as selling burgers at your local burger place.

Increasing the minimum wage across the country should be done though.
Cause if they (Amazon for example) can afford to pay their developers 100$+ for hour, they should be able to afford their low skilled workers a bit more than the bare minimum.
 
Why should a capitalist increase the minimum wage if the workers aren't doing anything different ?

Second speaker raises some interesting points, though having the technical ideas and building a business project which results in a product that actually creates wealth is a totally different thing. Trust me, I've been there.

Then of course, there are companies who have been totally built over the founder's original idea (Google with PageRank, Microsoft with MS DOS), though sure, most of the giant companies like Amazon, Apple, Samsung, Facebook have actually just combined different things and putting them together, but doing it better than the others.

NB: I am taking all the examples in the technology field cause I am more familiar with it, and don't want to talk about companies I don't know much about.
 
Second speaker raises some interesting points, though having the technical ideas and building a business project which results in a product that actually creates wealth is a totally different thing. Trust me, I've been there.

Then of course, there are companies who have been totally built over the founder's original idea (Google with PageRank, Microsoft with MS DOS), though sure, most of the giant companies like Amazon, Apple, Samsung, Facebook have actually just combined different things and putting them together, but doing it better than the others.

NB: I am taking all the examples in the technology field cause I am more familiar with it, and don't want to talk about companies I don't know much about.
Yeah we really have push back on the whole one unique individual or the group of guys in a garage theme as it's simply untrue. Although that doesn't mean hand everything over to state because that not particular democratic either.
 
Why should a capitalist increase the minimum wage if the workers aren't doing anything different ?







Because of the increase in cost of living? You can’t just keep profits going up at the expense of the little guy as some of them struggle to afford the bus to work.
Or how about Because it’s the right thing to do?
 
I’m a believer in that it’s the workers who are the soul of the company - it’s them that delivers the performances leading to profits. It’s only right that they get something back

I once had a site director who called us group of leaders in to tell us they weren’t giving us a pay rise that year because of x y and z
He then stupidly said that because of our performance he’d be getting his bonus
Needless to say that we got our pay rise after that
 
Because of the increase in cost of living? You can’t just keep profits going up at the expense of the little guy as some of them struggle to afford the bus to work.
Or how about Because it’s the right thing to do?
That’s the point he’s trying to make. There’s no incentive for the capitalist, operating on free market principles, to increase cost/reduce his profit margin for the workers’ benefits.
 
That’s the point he’s trying to make. There’s no incentive for the capitalist, operating on free market principles, to increase cost/reduce his profit margin for the workers’ benefits.

What about public perception - case in point, Sanders' recent pressure to increase Amazon's minimum wage to $15, where the company capitulated when it discovered a public backlash was not in its best interests ? He's doing the same to McDonalds now as well. In both instances the companies are operating on free market principles where a degradation in brand value could affect its bottom line.
 
What about public perception - case in point, Sanders' recent pressure to increase Amazon's minimum wage to $15, where the company capitulated when it discovered a public backlash was not in its best interests ? He's doing the same to McDonalds now as well. In both instances the companies are operating on free market principles where a degradation in brand value could affect its bottom line.
You mean the one when they slashed bonuses the day after, effectively leaving the workers no better than before?