US Men's National Team Discussion

[WI_Red]

This is where USSF should do something along the way MLB and NHL have with their developmental systems, and the NBA to a lesser extent.

they did try something, Bradenton, and it was a disaster. It produced some out best players (Landon, Beasley, etc.) but it was the epitome of exclusion and was infamous in the way it (or I guess USSF scouts) ignored Hispanic players.

it being dissolved in favor of the MLS academies was a huge, relative, positive.

 

[MrMarcello]

they did try something, Bradenton, and it was a disaster. It produced some out best players (Landon, Beasley, etc.) but it was the epitome of exclusion and was infamous in the way it (or I guess USSF scouts) ignored Hispanic players.

it being dissolved in favor of the MLS academies was a huge, relative, positive.

I'm not hinting at a Bradenton thing but a full blown interconnected minor league type system that extends into the youth levels. There is a few lower levels at the moment but needs to be more widespread like MLB and NHL, even with the independent leagues.

 

[WI_Red]

I'm not hinting at a Bradenton thing but a full blown interconnected minor league type system that extends into the youth levels. There is a few lower levels at the moment but needs to be more widespread like MLB and NHL, even with the independent leagues.

I don't disagree at all. The first thing they could do to foster this would be to stop prohibiting solidarity payments. We are basically the only country in the world where these payments are not allowed. What benefit is there for a grassroots team to develop young players who get snapped up by MLS academies on a free?

Using Chris Richards as an example because he came up in the city I lived in. He played for 2 local clubs, Hoover Soccer Club (small but good) and then moved to Birmingham United (bigger and very good. Tessman also played here). After a brief, I think FC Dallas recommended, stop at a TX cub team he got snapped up by FCD. Based on what the local coaches told me, HSC and BU saw not one penny from those moves nor from his sale to Bayern. In almost all other countries they would have been due solidarity payments from FCD.

These payments could help reduced or replace pay to play fees. They could encourage players to go to their local clubs because they know the clubs have an incentive to showcase and foster their ability.

 

[Gator Nate]

I would agree. If you look at the top talent in the pool I think very few of them went the college route. For the dual nationals (Mussah, Dest, Brooks, etc.) the reason is obvious. For the remaining players I think they have seen that their best path forward is through academies and eventually Europe. I do have 2 concers though:

1. Pay to play: As long as the route to notoriety is through elite youth club teams there will always be the issue of countless top talents slipping through. The insane costs of these teams means that many kids are simply priced out. Some(all??) of the MLS academies are free, but..........(see #2)
2. MLS Academies: Sadly it seems that very few MLS teams are taking their academies seriously. Dallas, SLC, Atlanta (somewhat) and both NY teams seem to be committed, but the rest seem to not give a crap. There is no way that the combined academies of both LA teams should be producing zero national team players while Dallas can give us McKennie, Reynolds, Richards, Pomykal, Ferreira, and soon Tessman and Pepi.

Orlando City is one of the most expensive academies in our area. It's not free! Though they may offer scholarships to a select few. And their academy system was such a disaster a three or four years back that they blew it all up and started over. They also moved it from Sanford (north of town) to Lake Nona (east of town), but that's another matter. Prior to the restructure, their teams competed in our league, Greater Central Florida Youth Soccer (GCF), and their top teams weren't all that and other local clubs had squads just as good or better.

Agreed that few MLS teams take their academies seriously. But I also don't know much about the other economics of the MLS. I don't think it's great, but I don't know what the TV deals are like. Certainly not like the EPL.

And while GCF has the MLS logo prominently on their website, I don't get any sense of MLS presence or support in our league. Meanwhile, we were at a middle school game (separate from club, and much lower quality) for our son a couple months back, and a local "academy" associated with Bologna FC is handing out flyers. Several of the major European teams have associated academies here in Florida. I just got an e-mail from our league about an Arsenal-associated camp and Spurs have something going on that my friend sends his sons to.

Using Orlando City as an example, though, I would think you could send a couple of scouts throughout the state, heck, just inside central Florida, and find 20-30 kids ready to make the step into an academy at every age level. Basically, Florida has 22 million plus residents and TWO first-division teams. And I would think it would be easy for them to support and assist local leagues with coaching and referee training and the like. (By way of comparison, Austria has a population of just under 10 million, a twelve-team first division, and a national team.)

That said, ultimately a lot of this comes down to the MLS model, which is completely different from any other country in the world. There's the franchise system, and the new team fees that go up with every team that comes in. Pro/Rel will never happen because of this. And MLS still seems to be focused on using known names from the European leagues as the backbone to their PR-driven game. I mean, Nani is the star of Orlando City.

 

[Wolf1992]

Spot on with CONCACAF.

The college game is becoming less and less relevant in America. I only wish there were better regional second division leagues. I look at my home state of Florida and can only imagine we should have a better professional league in-state than some European countries, based on population alone.

Being good at Football is not just about having a big population, otherwise Japan,China, and United States should be better than Germany, Italy,France,Netherlands,Croatia,Portugal,Argentina,etc.

Neither Japan,China, and United States have the Football culture required to succeed, and they have been hiring european managers for their youth system for a couple of decades btw...still Japan and USA only produce the casual good players that are good but not great or top, casual good players that are also produced by poor countries who could only dream about having the top infrastructure that Japan and USA have.

The likes of Maradona,Platini,Cruyff,Pele,Van Basten, Zico,Zidane, Ronaldinho,Best,etc didn't start playing football on quality pitches built by the government or some wealthy businessman(in an attempt to make Football popular in his country) they started playing on the streets, wearing poor quality shoes, but loving the game more than anything.

Unluckily for China,Japan,United States,South korea,etc you won't become a great footballer just because you train 24/7... otherwise Ronaldinho,Maradona,R9 and other indisciplined legends would have never been considered the best.

 

[WI_Red]

Being good at Football is not just about having a big population, otherwise Japan,China, and United States should be better than Germany, Italy,France,Netherlands,Croatia,Portugal,Argentina,etc.

Neither Japan,China, and United States have the Football culture required to succeed, and they have been hiring european managers for their youth system for a couple of decades btw...still Japan and USA only produce the casual good players that are good but not great or top, casual good players that are also produced by poor countries who could only dream about having the top infrastructure that Japan and USA have.

The likes of Maradona,Platini,Cruyff,Pele,Van Basten, Zico,Zidane, Ronaldinho,Best,etc didn't start playing football on quality pitches built by the government or some wealthy businessman(in an attempt to make Football popular in his country) they started playing on the streets, wearing poor quality shoes, but loving the game more than anything.

Unluckily for China,Japan,United States,South korea,etc you won't become a great footballer just because you train 24/7... otherwise Ronaldinho,Maradona,R9 and other indisciplined legends would have never been considered the best.

I don't buy this argument at all.

Would you say that the majority of Germany or England or Frances player pools grew up in the conditions you mentioned? Not a single player you listed is still playing. Sure, training by itself will not make you a great player, you need to have innate skill. However, you also do not need to grow up poor playing on shit pitches in bare feet to develop that skill.

Look at the current (arguably) best young player in the world, Mbappe. He grew up playing in structured leagues and eventually moved to Clairfontaine at a very young age.

I am not arguing that the US is going to produce an Mbappe any time soon, if ever, just that they are not being prevented from doing so by the environment in which these kids learn the sport. Every generation of American player over the last 20 years has gotten better than the previous (with the exception of the one between Landon/Dempsey/Beasley and the current one, but that is down to Klinnsmans and MLS's fascination with European players). There are some real talents coming up behind this team and the sport is growing in popularity in leaps and bounds at the youth level. Hell, when I lived in Alabama (ALABAMA!) they were converting football fields to soccer fields to meet the demand for pitches.

We may never win a world cup, or produce a top 10 in the world player, but that will not be down to our kids having good pitches and shoes.

 

[Gator Nate]

Being good at Football is not just about having a big population, otherwise Japan,China, and United States should be better than Germany, Italy,France,Netherlands,Croatia,Portugal,Argentina,etc.

Neither Japan,China, and United States have the Football culture required to succeed, and they have been hiring european managers for their youth system for a couple of decades btw...still Japan and USA only produce the casual good players that are good but not great or top, casual good players that are also produced by poor countries who could only dream about having the top infrastructure that Japan and USA have.

The likes of Maradona,Platini,Cruyff,Pele,Van Basten, Zico,Zidane, Ronaldinho,Best,etc didn't start playing football on quality pitches built by the government or some wealthy businessman(in an attempt to make Football popular in his country) they started playing on the streets, wearing poor quality shoes, but loving the game more than anything.

Unluckily for China,Japan,United States,South korea,etc you won't become a great footballer just because you train 24/7... otherwise Ronaldinho,Maradona,R9 and other indisciplined legends would have never been considered the best.

I only partially agree here. The culture here is very different for sure. But I think much of it is down to the fact that American football, basketball, baseball, and hockey probably pull potential talent away from soccer far more than other sports in other countries.

I don't buy this argument at all.

Would you say that the majority of Germany or England or Frances player pools grew up in the conditions you mentioned? Not a single player you listed is still playing. Sure, training by itself will not make you a great player, you need to have innate skill. However, you also do not need to grow up poor playing on shit pitches in bare feet to develop that skill.

Look at the current (arguably) best young player in the world, Mbappe. He grew up playing in structured leagues and eventually moved to Clairfontaine at a very young age.

I am not arguing that the US is going to produce an Mbappe any time soon, if ever, just that they are not being prevented from doing so by the environment in which these kids learn the sport. Every generation of American player over the last 20 years has gotten better than the previous (with the exception of the one between Landon/Dempsey/Beasley and the current one, but that is down to Klinnsmans and MLS's fascination with European players). There are some real talents coming up behind this team and the sport is growing in popularity in leaps and bounds at the youth level. Hell, when I lived in Alabama (ALABAMA!) they were converting football fields to soccer fields to meet the demand for pitches.

We may never win a world cup, or produce a top 10 in the world player, but that will not be down to our kids having good pitches and shoes.

Huntsville, maybe? I lived there 25 years ago and soccer was huge in that town even then.

Agreed, though. Things are getting better but, generally speaking, the MLS has little interest in developing top talent when it can just buy already-established European names in their twilight to bring in the fans. I think that could change if just a few clubs really started pushing their youth setups.

 

[WI_Red]

I only partially agree here. The culture here is very different for sure. But I think much of it is down to the fact that American football, basketball, baseball, and hockey probably pull potential talent away from soccer far more than other sports in other countries.


Huntsville, maybe? I lived there 25 years ago and soccer was huge in that town even then.

Agreed, though. Things are getting better but, generally speaking, the MLS has little interest in developing top talent when it can just buy already-established European names in their twilight to bring in the fans. I think that could change if just a few clubs really started pushing their youth setups.

Hoover (suburb of Birmingham and infamous for giving the world Rush Propst).

To further ram home the idea of increased popularity of soccer I pasted a picture below of the new Hoover Sports Complex. Those bottom 5 fields are all lined for soccer and lacrosse (another sport blowing up down there), not for football.

 

[Daydreamer]

I only partially agree here. The culture here is very different for sure. But I think much of it is down to the fact that American football, basketball, baseball, and hockey probably pull potential talent away from soccer far more than other sports in other countries.

There are multiple factors, but I think that this is the most important one.

For example, Lebron James is arguably the greatest basketballer of all time. But his, speed, strength, agility, reflexes, adaptability, resilience, leadership, temperament, work rate, focus etc mean he would likely have excelled in multiple sports. If he grew up in England he probably would have been kicking a ball since he could walk and had his pick of academies.

 

[Gator Nate]

There are multiple factors, but I think that this is the most important one.

For example, Lebron James is arguably the greatest basketballer of all time. But his, speed, strength, agility, reflexes, adaptability, resilience, leadership, temperament, work rate, focus etc mean he would likely have excelled in multiple sports. If he grew up in England he probably would have been kicking a ball since he could walk and had his pick of academies.

Qualifier: I wouldn't rate him as the greatest basketballer of all time. He think lacks leadership, resilience, and temperament for that. I was never a Jordan fan, but MJ actually had those qualities and raised the game of those around him. When the going gets tough, Lebron finds a new city.

That said, at 6' 9", Labron is almost exclusively a basketball player. Might've been a high jumper, but not likely any other sport where he could excel as he has in basketball. Smaller guys would make him look like a snail on any field larger than a basketball court.

 

[Wolf1992]

I don't buy this argument at all.

Would you say that the majority of Germany or England or Frances player pools grew up in the conditions you mentioned? Not a single player you listed is still playing. Sure, training by itself will not make you a great player, you need to have innate skill. However, you also do not need to grow up poor playing on shit pitches in bare feet to develop that skill.

Look at the current (arguably) best young player in the world, Mbappe. He grew up playing in structured leagues and eventually moved to Clairfontaine at a very young age.

I am not arguing that the US is going to produce an Mbappe any time soon, if ever, just that they are not being prevented from doing so by the environment in which these kids learn the sport. Every generation of American player over the last 20 years has gotten better than the previous (with the exception of the one between Landon/Dempsey/Beasley and the current one, but that is down to Klinnsmans and MLS's fascination with European players). There are some real talents coming up behind this team and the sport is growing in popularity in leaps and bounds at the youth level. Hell, when I lived in Alabama (ALABAMA!) they were converting football fields to soccer fields to meet the demand for pitches.

We may never win a world cup, or produce a top 10 in the world player, but that will not be down to our kids having good pitches and shoes.

Yeah, but Mbappé grew up in France a traditional Football country.

Also i didn't say that only players from poor background are great.
What i meant is that you can't create great players just by investing a lot on infrastructure or forcing Football onto the population because it's trendy.

If you don't have the Football culture, you don't have it. I mean Football in China,Japan, and United States it's behind 3-4 sports in terms of importance.Kids who want to be the best in those 3 countries might feel like they won't be appreciated enough in their own countries because Football isn't important enough, and people would prefer them to be in other sports such as baseball,table tennis, swimming, volleyball,etc
And you can't buy Football culture just by investing a lot of money on stadiums, foreign managers from top countries, semi-retired players from Europe and SouthAmerica etc...people who don't like Football won't like Football just because they see a better quality pitch/stadium, or a semi-retired top player every weekend.
For instance, Argentina ,outside of 2-3 big teams on their league, have poor quality stadiums/pitches, bad refeering, violent hooligans,poor security in the stadium,etc...but people keep going to watch their team every weekend (before Covid of course), they know their league has a lot of flaws but still watch to support their team.

 

[WI_Red]

Yeah, but Mbappé grew up in France a traditional Football country.

Also i didn't say that only players from poor background are great.
What i meant is that you can't create great players just by investing a lot on infrastructure or forcing Football onto the population because it's trendy.

If you don't have the Football culture, you don't have it. I mean Football in China,Japan, and United States it's behind 3-4 sports in terms of importance.Kids who want to be the best in those 3 countries might feel like they won't be appreciated enough in their own countries because Football isn't important enough, and people would prefer them to be in other sports such as baseball,table tennis, swimming, volleyball,etc
And you can't buy Football culture just by investing a lot of money on stadiums, foreign managers from top countries, semi-retired players from Europe and SouthAmerica etc...people who don't like Football won't like Football just because they see a better quality pitch/stadium, or a semi-retired top player every weekend.
For instance, Argentina ,outside of 2-3 big teams on their league, have poor quality stadiums/pitches, bad refeering, violent hooligans,poor security in the stadium,etc...but people keep going to watch their team every weekend (before Covid of course), they know their league has a lot of flaws but still watch to support their team.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

I think things are changing, slowly but still changing, here. I am not sure if you live in the states, but I can guarantee that the sport has grown exponentially since I was a kid both in prestige and in the skill of our players. We are not close to the traditional powers, but we have caught up with Mexico. Kids who never would have chosen the sport now are. Take Tanner Tessman for example. Grew up in Alabama, godfather is Dabo Sweeney (HC of Clemson American Football team), full scholarship to Clemson and he still chose to enter the FCD Academy. I think we are slowly building a culture and identity here, but the 2026 WC will be the referendum on this. All the current stars will be in their primes and the guys coming up now will be entering theirs, plus we will be hosting the tournament. I just hope and pray we will have a progressive, brave coach by then.....

 

[MrMarcello]

Ream starting again, get the popcorn and laughter ready.

 

[Zaphod2319]

This is a try out game for kids. Only reason for me to watch is to see if Dike can shine.

 

[Berbaclass]

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

I think things are changing, slowly but still changing, here. I am not sure if you live in the states, but I can guarantee that the sport has grown exponentially since I was a kid both in prestige and in the skill of our players. We are not close to the traditional powers, but we have caught up with Mexico. Kids who never would have chosen the sport now are. Take Tanner Tessman for example. Grew up in Alabama, godfather is Dabo Sweeney (HC of Clemson American Football team), full scholarship to Clemson and he still chose to enter the FCD Academy. I think we are slowly building a culture and identity here, but the 2026 WC will be the referendum on this. All the current stars will be in their primes and the guys coming up now will be entering theirs, plus we will be hosting the tournament. I just hope and pray we will have a progressive, brave coach by then.....

I think it's far too short-term to really tell anything.

 

[Mr. P Mosh]

This "golden generation" is impressive on paper, but it's not that good, at least not yet.

US Americans have been hyping these guys a lot I thought they'll dominate our guys but aside from Reyna (who gassed out) and the sub GK, none of those guys impressed me.

Pulisic's non existant game is not surprising since it's not the first time I saw him against us. He couldn't pass a not in form Liga MX fullback who is not even that athletic FFS.

And well, for this super talented US side, it was proved once again Mexico was the most technical side out there, the US looked better when the midflied was completely bypassed because McKennie couldn't even pass through Carlos Rodriguez (who's not in form either, sadly cuz he was a good prospect) and we know in the athletic deparment we'll always end up losing.

Mexico will have a rough time since we already lacked a backup number 9 for Jimenez, without him we're toothless at the front. And then we're back to the days we conceded in set pieces, and most of the CONCACAF sides are taller than us (aside from potencially El Salvador).

Like I said, Reyna is the one who could end up being their new Landon Donovan, kid's legit.

 

[Berbaclass]

This "golden generation" is impressive on paper, but it's not that good, at least not yet.

US Americans have been hyping these guys a lot I thought they'll dominate our guys but aside from Reyna (who gassed out) and the sub GK, none of those guys impressed me.

Pulisic's non existant game is not surprising since it's not the first time I saw him against us. He couldn't pass a not in form Liga MX fullback who is not even that athletic FFS.

And well, for this super talented US side, it was proved once again Mexico was the most technical side out there, the US looked better when the midflied was completely bypassed because McKennie couldn't even pass through Carlos Rodriguez (who's not in form either, sadly cuz he was a good prospect) and we know in the athletic deparment we'll always end up losing.

Mexico will have a rough time since we already lacked a backup number 9 for Jimenez, without him we're toothless at the front. And then we're back to the days we conceded in set pieces, and most of the CONCACAF sides are taller than us (aside from potencially El Salvador).

Like I said, Reyna is the one who could end up being their new Landon Donovan, kid's legit.

I think the problem is that the current US national team isn't even a reflection of the US game, mostly becasue they're all European-based players that have developed their games on our continent. They have had a handful of young players come through and had to move to Europe to get better because the playing standard of the MLS is just trash.

 

[WI_Red]

I know it’s not the same thing as the last 2 games, but having 2 paces, skillful players in MF makes a world of difference. Especially if one is Adams. Love that guy.

 

[Zaphod2319]

Im not sure these announcers know the terms they are using. The keep saying they thought Musah was cap tied for the Nations League which is not possible as he started for the US in friendlies. He definitely could have been cup tied if he played for a different team in the past year.

So far Dike’s first touch looks good, but not really fast to get his shot off.

 

[Berbaclass]

Im not sure these announcers know the terms they are using. The keep saying they thought Musah was cap tied for the Nations League which is not possible as he started for the US in friendlies. He definitely could have been cup tied if he played for a different team in the past year.

So far Dike’s first touch looks good, but not really fast to get his shot off.

I know you're allowed to play 3 competitive games maximum for a nation and still be able to switch.

 

[Zaphod2319]

Nice goal for Dike. Nice movement forward and excellent placement. I hope we can have people challenge Sargent. I just think Sargent gets the yips when he needs to strike. Sargents work rate has improved.

 

[WI_Red]

Aaronson has looked great. That move to RBS seems to have really upped his game.

 

[NYAS]

That was absolutely filthy from Aaronson

Bring him in to back up Bruno.

 

[WI_Red]

That was absolutely filthy from Aaronson

Bring him in to back up Bruno.

Adams (if he could stay healthy) is the players I would love Utd to get. He’s a poor mans Kante and still only 21.

edit: just turned 22

 

[L3G4CY15]

I thought I had set to record the game, but I guess I didn’t. I’ve missed up until now. How have we looked? I’m guessing good by the score haha

 

[WI_Red]

I thought I had set to record the game, but I guess I didn’t. I’ve missed up until now. How have we looked? I’m guessing good by the score haha

looked pretty good. Aaronson has been the standout. Adams has done Adams things, which means CR has had no joy whatsoever. Dike has and Mussah have had bright moments as well.

 

[L3G4CY15]

Questions for any non American that may be in here. Has your view of America as a footballing country changed at all with this crop of players? Also which American do you think will have the best club career?

 

[sport2793]

This "golden generation" is impressive on paper, but it's not that good, at least not yet.

US Americans have been hyping these guys a lot I thought they'll dominate our guys but aside from Reyna (who gassed out) and the sub GK, none of those guys impressed me.

Pulisic's non existant game is not surprising since it's not the first time I saw him against us. He couldn't pass a not in form Liga MX fullback who is not even that athletic FFS.

And well, for this super talented US side, it was proved once again Mexico was the most technical side out there, the US looked better when the midflied was completely bypassed because McKennie couldn't even pass through Carlos Rodriguez (who's not in form either, sadly cuz he was a good prospect) and we know in the athletic deparment we'll always end up losing.

Mexico will have a rough time since we already lacked a backup number 9 for Jimenez, without him we're toothless at the front. And then we're back to the days we conceded in set pieces, and most of the CONCACAF sides are taller than us (aside from potencially El Salvador).

Like I said, Reyna is the one who could end up being their new Landon Donovan, kid's legit.

You're delusional if you think this and are in for a world of hurt for the next few years with this attitude. You're bashing Pulisic who just won the CL, when was the last time a Mexican player won the CL? The US manager set up the team to fail and didn't even put the best midfielders in the lineup to control the game. He made the best young attacking RB in the world look like a USL championship player and played him out of position. For your sake I hope he stays in the job because if a half decent manager shows up...

Once this team matures they will win multiple games at Azteca, one hundred percent sure of that.

 

[WI_Red]

You're delusional if you think this and are in for a world of hurt for the next few years with this attitude. You're bashing Pulisic who just won the CL, when was the last time a Mexican player won the CL? The US manager set up the team to fail and didn't even put the best midfielders in the lineup to control the game. He made the best young attacking RB in the world look like a USL championship player and played him out of position. For your sake I hope he stays in the job because if a half decent manager shows up...

Once this team matures they will win multiple games at Azteca, one hundred percent sure of that.

Rafa Marquez I believe. Of course our very own Chicharito should have been the last. Stupid Barca.

Anyways, I don't think Pulisic had his best game, and Dest looked way out of it. I am agreement this is 90% due to GB's bad/cowardly tactics. Pulisic will always get the benefit of the doubt from me because as a teenager he was the only one who showed up for the <game that shall not be named> and tried to singlehandedly drag us over the line.

 

[Mr. P Mosh]

You're delusional if you think this and are in for a world of hurt for the next few years with this attitude. You're bashing Pulisic who just won the CL, when was the last time a Mexican player won the CL? The US manager set up the team to fail and didn't even put the best midfielders in the lineup to control the game. He made the best young attacking RB in the world look like a USL championship player and played him out of position. For your sake I hope he stays in the job because if a half decent manager shows up...

Once this team matures they will win multiple games at Azteca, one hundred percent sure of that.

What does Pulisic winning the UCL (All by himself? I doubt it) with the game against Mexico?

The times he has played against Mexico he's been nulified, he didn't do much against Honduras either. He might be really talented, I don't care, it's not showing in the CONCACAF game. Rafa Marquez was an amazing player but that doesn't mean he didn't let us down against the US, even if he was a boss at Barca.

That so called best young attacking RB did nothing. He could be great in future games, of course, but so far, for all this talk about all this "amazing talent" they still looked the lesser technical side with the athletic edge on their side, just like before. And I think for you guys it's better that way, the 2000s playstyle was the one that got you better results.

But well, for what I saw, Reyna already looks like the better talent, at least for the USMNT, as a Mexican I'd expect him more to be that new "Landon Donovan" that any of the other guys. Kid looks legit.

 

[Mr. P Mosh]

Rafa Marquez I believe. Of course our very own Chicharito should have been the last. Stupid Barca.

Anyways, I don't think Pulisic had his best game, and Dest looked way out of it. I am agreement this is 90% due to GB's bad/cowardly tactics. Pulisic will always get the benefit of the doubt from me because as a teenager he was the only one who showed up for the <game that shall not be named> and tried to singlehandedly drag us over the line.

Technically, the last Mexican who won a UCL was Jonathan Dos Santos, but I even doubt he played that season.

--------

Your coach may not be the best, but he adjusted well in some instances, and Martino didn't always had a good answer. But well, Martino isn't a tactical genius either, he's shown once he lost Jimenez he also lost his only gameplan.

I can blame Martino for starting without a real CF, but I can't blame him for Lozano's bad finishing or Antuna's horrible decision making. Just like your coach is not at fault if Pulisic couldn't beat one-on-one a not in form Liga MX RB, c'mon.

They're young and might have a higher ceiling, but they're aren't that mythical side that will light up the football world, and I even doubt they'll dominate Mexico as many of you already fantazise about, even if we end up playing only Liga MXers.

 

[WI_Red]

Technically, the last Mexican who won a UCL was Jonathan Dos Santos, but I even doubt he played that season.

--------

Your coach may not be the best, but he adjusted well in some instances, and Martino didn't always had a good answer. But well, Martino isn't a tactical genius either, he's shown once he lost Jimenez he also lost his only gameplan.

I can blame Martino for starting without a real CF, but I can't blame him for Lozano's bad finishing or Antuna's horrible decision making. Just like your coach is not at fault if Pulisic couldn't beat one-on-one a not in form Liga MX RB, c'mon.

They're young and might have a higher ceiling, but they're aren't that mythical side that will light up the football world, and I even doubt they'll dominate Mexico as many of you already fantazise about, even if we end up playing only Liga MXers.

Martino did well in the first half to adjust to the US game plan by switching things up to isolate Ream and attack him constantly. Berhalter did not adjust until, finally, he removed Ream and moved Acosta to the FB position. There are definitely questions around Mexico's set piece coaching as it looked like we could score on almost every corner/free kick.

Also, not sure where your last statement came from. Not only have I not "fantasized about dominating Mexico", but I stated up top that I want Mexico to be good. The only way we both continue to improve is by pushing each other. Canada's improvement and Jamaica possibly getting a huge influx of talented dual nationals will help the region. CONCACAF has suffered from, until the last 20 years, being a 1 team region. The better the competition the better teams need to be to get to the world cup.

 

[Zaphod2319]

 

[WI_Red]

Oh god no. no, no, no, no.

That team is a mess and he is in a great position at RBL with Marsch coming in. Adams is the most crucial player for the US right now and the last thing we need is him picking up the Arsenal taint.

 

[WI_Red]

In a rare example of me NOT derailing a thread I am replying to @firstkuyttouch's question from the Gold Cup thread in the proper one.

maybe not the thread for it, but would love to know who people think the top 25 USA players are at present. A couple years ago would’ve personally thought Yedlinny, Miazga and uhhh Brek Shea would be near the top so obviously I have nothing to bring to the conversation. Except perhaps John Brooks v Belgium in 2014 should be taught in classes

Wow, a Brek Shea sighting! Hand raised, I did buy him for my United FM save a couple years running. There was some talent there, but he just never grew into it. Miazga made the stupid mistake of going to Chelsea and I think it completely blocked his development. Being shipped around a few times a year on loan does a player no favors. Yedlin is who Yedlin is. In this age of our lord and savior Sergino Dest there is no room.

As for the top 25 players at the moment, here are my (likely bad) thoughts.

Tier 1: The current stars
1. Pulisic - Chelsea: Until Reyna or Adams takes it off him he is the top US players. The fitness issues are a worry though.
2. Adams - RBL: My favorite US player and someone I would love to see at United. His stock is going to explode under Marsch at RBL.
3. McKinnie - Juve: A little worried how Allegri is going to use him. Pirlo loved him and under him Weston's game grew so much.
4. Brooks - Wolfsburg: Best US defender since Eddie Pope. His loss of pace is concerning if we can't find the right partner for him (paging Chris Richards!)
5. Sergino Dest - Barca: Some may quibble with this, but I think he is that good currently. Berhalter using him as a left back is a crime and he should be sent to the Hague for doing so.

Tier 2: The next generation of stars
6. Gio Reyna - Dortmund: His playing time is too inconsistent to be higher, but he should get there this year with Sancho moving on. The sky is the limit with him.
7. Yunnus Musah - Valencia: Until he is officially cap tied in WCQ I am going to be nervous. He is the perfect player to fit into a midfield 3 with Adams and McKinnie. He has looked so good.
8. Tim Weah - Lille: STAY HEALTHY PLEASE!
9. Brendan Aaronson - RBS: Will be interesting if he continues the meteoric rise he had under Marsch. Really really like his game.
10. Chris Richards - Bayern: I was getting worried until he went to Hoffenheim. He is the perfect partner for Brooks (pace, right footed, excellent reader of the game, good passer)

Tier 3: Good but "old" (with this team old is over 23)
11. Zak Steffen - City: The worst best goalkeeper in a long time. Breaks a long run of this being the best US position (I miss you Fiedel/Keller/Howard!!!!!)
12. Reggie Cannon - Boevista: Decent RB who is so decently decent that Berhalter does the (in)decent thing and plays Dest on the Left. Motherfecker.

Tier 4: A basket of strikers. Pick one.
13. Josh Sargeant - Bremen: Please
14. Daryl Dike - Orlando: Learn
15. Matthew Hoppe - Schalke: To Score
16. Jordan Siebatcheu - Rennes: Goals

Tier 5: The MLS old guys

Walker Zimmerman? Aaron Long? Zardes? Acosta?????

Tier 6: The European Youngsters
17. Bryan Reynolds - Roma: Great, another right back for Berhalter to play on the right over Dest
18. Konrad de la Fuente - Marseille: There is a player there, just not sure what it is.
19. Nicholas Gioacchini - Caen: Meh. See Tier 4

Tier 7: The MLS Youngsters
20. Caden Clark - RBNY (for now): Tricky attacking MF/Forward/Winger. On his way to RBL in January
21. Paxton Pomykal - FC Dallas: For a tiny dude he is very aggressive and has good skill too. Injuries derailed him in 2021 so far (and the disaster that is FCD)
22. Ricardo Pepi - FC Dallas: Hopefully he is he one who skips past the dreaded Tier 4.
23. Miles Robinson - Atlanta United: Only here because his Gold Cup has been great. Watch him commit 4 howlers tonight.
24. Gio Bussio - KC: Same as Robinson. Need to figure out his best position. Not dynamic enough for an 8, but beaten too easily to be a 6.
25. Cade Cowell - SJ: Dude scores goals. Dude is big dude.

Its a bakers 25, so you get a bonus

26. James Sands - NYC: Best player at gold cup so far. Really impressed me. Hope he gets to Europe soon.

 

[redrobed]

Oh god no. no, no, no, no.

That team is a mess and he is in a great position at RBL with Marsch coming in. Adams is the most crucial player for the US right now and the last thing we need is him picking up the Arsenal taint.

Got to agree with this. Last thing we need is him signing for serial losers like Arsenal. Hopefully he stays at Red Bull.

 

[firstkuyttouch]

Cheers for the excellent post, question for you, if it’s the 2010 Bradley team, lots of limited players but a cohesive unit I’d say, versus today’s team- handful of exceptional talent but coached by Josh Kroenke’s spirit twin, which team would you pick to win?
DaMarcus at LB, Fabian at RB, and Jozy up top? Call me drunk, but I think I’m picking em

 

[WI_Red]

Cheers for the excellent post, question for you, if it’s the 2010 Bradley team, lots of limited players but a cohesive unit I’d say, versus today’s team- handful of exceptional talent but coached by Josh Kroenke’s spirit twin, which team would you pick to win?
DaMarcus at LB, Fabian at RB, and Jozy up top? Call me drunk, but I think I’m picking em

working on an excellent whiskey at the moment, so I have some thoughts forming. Here is the 2010 team I would have chosen vs now (I am sure I am fecking this up and I am using GB’s preferences for 2021, which hurts me.)

GK: Howard vs Turner(I am a convert): Howard, but Turner has been so so good in the gold cup this is getting closer than if it had been Steffen.

RB: Cherundolo vs Cannon: Cherundolo, Dolo is the best RB in US history not named Dest, but feck Berhalter

LB: Beasley vs Dest: Dest but I am angry he is on the left. It’s like playing Shaw on the right because Telles is decent and we have no other right backs. Madness.

CBR: Gooch vs Richards: Gooch is my favorite US defender not named Eddie Pope. Richards might win this soon but Gooch was so dominant and intimidating in the air.

CBL: Bocanegra vs Brooks: Brooks is the best CB since Pope and maybe the best ever. Nova was a great leader and excellent CB though.

DM: Bradley vs Adams: Adams, although young Bradley was good I think Adams is one of our best MF’s ever even at 21.

CM: Feilhaber vs McKinnie: McKinnie, but Feilhaber was not too shabby. Still not that close.

CM: Edu vs Acosta: Acosta. In my mind it would be Musah here but Berhalter gonna Berhalter. It’s close if it is Acosta, but Musah is awesome.

going with a front 3 here and both 3’s are kind of interchangeable, so let’s compare the groups:

Dempsey, Donovan, Altidore vs. Reyna, Pulisic, and uhm…. a warm body? DDA for now, but in 2 years it’s going to be Pulisic, Reyna and someone. Reyna is going to be our best player ever.

so if they played today I think I would agree. The 2010 team is just more experienced. However, the 2022 team is a different story if Richards/Musah become who I think the will and some sort of striker emerges.

 

[11 forwards]

Millions of kids in the USA play pick up soccer. There are millions and millions of immigrants from Mexico, Europe, Africa and South America and just about all of them and all of their kids play soccer.

This whole idea of playing football on the street with your shit mates is what creates professionals is complete non-sense anyway. Playing and training with the best kids in the country with the best coaches in the country is what creates the best players. Not kicking a ball at cars in the street.

How does the one eliminate the other? I know noone who has started off as kids having the best coaches in the country. You need a huge base to get to the stars.

It's crucial to have coaches down the line on all levels to bring talents further. It's been lacking a bit here in Norway. While a tiny winter country like Iceland is getting enough talent out of their 360 000 people for number 52 last fifa ranking.

 

[bosskeano]

well the US had another brilliant result tonight and have now beaten the Mexican squad in back to back finals this summer

this game was all the more impressive considering there were 8 first team starters last night for Tata while the US had only one(Acosta) carryover from teh Gold Cup final

A VERY experience Mexican side against a VERY Inexperienced American side but still the same result. The mexican side started out much stronger as one would expect and despite some pretty glaring technical errors with their passing, the US grew into the game and really were the better side from about the 60th minute on.