United’s next manager

Majima said:
I agree in a vacuum, but LVG was definitely backstabbed by Woodward back then.

They convinced LVG to take 3 years instead of 2 years in the first place, knew in advance we would be his final club before retirement, then agreed with Mourinho & kept it a secret from LVG for 6 months, whilst LVG was having his authority gradually undermined over time, being repeatedly asked in the press every week about it. LVG even said afterwards he would have stepped aside come the summer if they had told him.

It was a total lack of class for sure.

You don't agree?
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They probably looked at what happened at City in the same reason when Pep was announced to take over next season while that season was going on and players suddenly turned on Pellegrini and stopped caring anymore knowing he's a goner. It's a tricky situation, but we were still in the run of finishing top 4 and if LvG and his players knew he's a goner whatever happening, a stronger collapse might have happened, with players not giving jack shite about LvG and results.

The bad thing was announcing the sacking that early, 2 days after winning the final. We should have delayed the sacking a week or so to let him celebrate a little.
 
el3mel said:
They probably looked at what happened at City in the same reason when Pep was announced to take over next season while that season was going on and players suddenly turned on Pellegrini and stopped caring anymore knowing he's a goner. It's a tricky situation, but we were still in the run of finishing top 4 and if LvG and his players knew he's a goner whatever happening, a stronger collapse might have happened, with players not giving jack shite about LvG and results.

The bad thing was announcing the sacking that early, 2 days after winning the final. We should have delayed the sacking a week or so to let him celebrate a little.
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From that angle, i can see the difficulty in both ways. Yeah it definitely felt classless, him not even getting the chance to celebrate his FA Cup win.

Congrats Louie you won the FA Cup! ... erm those stories are actually true. You're fired.

I just wish it was handled better, LVG was a good man, he didn't deserve that.
 
crossy1686 said:
For a man that's won nothing and in a 5 year management and spell failed to turn a club around after the club entered a series of bad results for the first and only time during his spell?
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Yeah, I think he'd be in contention for any of the jobs at Juve, psg, bayern, United or Real if these clubs parted ways with manager
 
SER19 said:
Yeah, I think he'd be in contention for any of the jobs at Juve, psg, bayern, United or Real if these clubs parted ways with manager
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I don't think he'd be first choice but he'd probably be in the conversation. He hasn't proven anything yet apart from his was given time to build a nearly team
 
crossy1686 said:
I don't think he'd be first choice but he'd probably be in the conversation. He hasn't proven anything yet apart from his was given time to build a nearly team
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Yep he'd be considered by all of these clubs and based on who is or isn't attainable at that time he could be in top 2 for many. His next job will be make or break though
 
glazed said:
Ok the long version:
We need a DoF to manage a rebuild.
The Premier League is dominated by the two/three clubs who have mastered the High Press.
Therefore we need to master the High Press too.
Poch is one of only three PL managers who can do this. Spurs are morons for losing him. Woodward is a moron if he doesn't grab him.
So we should grab him (but probably won't.)

But this is a rebuilding season. He might as well concentrate on that and come fresh to the fight in the summer.
Bit shit for Ole but he will suck it up. He's lucky to be there and he knows it.
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Nice recovery post bruv. I think that if we do go for Poch and put Ole in a DOF role, he won't be too miffed. I mean he wants what's best for United, and that might just be it. If it don't work out, we can put Ole back. Cost us some $$ but that's what happens when you take risks.
 
USREDEVIL said:
Nice recovery post bruv. I think that if we do go for Poch and put Ole in a DOF role, he won't be too miffed. I mean he wants what's best for United, and that might just be it. If it don't work out, we can put Ole back. Cost us some $$ but that's what happens when you take risks.
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Thanks. But I reckon Poch will be knackered. He needs to chill and plan. Ole can do the games and help shape things
 
Ole must be shitting himself now. If he goes on another bad run with Poch available he’s fecked.
 
Give Poch the role either now or end of the season, Solskjaer has been finished since the moment we lost to Palace mediocrity at its best. Poch had spurs competitive with some of the lowest NET spending in the league, he's developed some of the best players in the league, has a philosophy, uses the youth. Laughable if you think he's no good.
 
El Zoido said:
Ambition. :lol: He’s on the way to getting them relegated, that’s why he’s gone. He’s a busted flush and has won nothing.

Feck me the state of the caf. No words.
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Similar to Klopp before he went to Pool
Granted Klopp had won titles, but he came to the end of the cycle and had a very poor season. Many questioned the Pool appointed and now look.

5 months ago Poch had Spurs yes Spurs in a UCL final
 
glazed said:
Ok the long version:
We need a DoF to manage a rebuild.
The Premier League is dominated by the two/three clubs who have mastered the High Press.
Therefore we need to master the High Press too.
Poch is one of only three PL managers who can do this. Spurs are morons for losing him. Woodward is a moron if he doesn't grab him.
So we should grab him (but probably won't.)

But this is a rebuilding season. He might as well concentrate on that and come fresh to the fight in the summer.
Bit shit for Ole but he will suck it up. He's lucky to be there and he knows it.
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Guess you haven't been paying attention.

High pressing is applied in all PL teams nowadays.

Bournemouth, Leicester, Norwich, Burnley.. basically since it was first brought in the league by Klopp, everyone has been training to be able to press like them.

Then this phase of play of pressing to attack, sit back to defend and counter existed.

All teams are capable, but to sustain it with a large and quality squad over a long season is what separating Liverpool and City.
 
hobbers said:
No, we dont need to be shifting Ole into a dof role. We’ve already given him one job he isnt qualified for, no sense in making that same mistake twice.

If we get a dof, for the millionth time, that role goes to someone who knows how to do it. Not ole or rio or fletcher for christs sake.
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Precisely, this club isn't in a place or time where people can be given luxury to learn their trade and experiment. We need professionals who can deliver right now based on wealth of experience in the field.
 
dogwithabone said:
I wouldn’t want him here straight away. He looks tired and drained and a 6 month break from the game and a couple of good holidays will reignite him. A lean, tanned and hungry Pottechino will undoubtedly be the most sought after manager in world football come the summer.
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I tend to agree with this and after all the turmoil at Spurs I do feel he needs a break away from the game.

We should negotiate a deal for him to take over in the summer. Yes i know that view is probably going to unpopular but it's just how I feel.
 
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Not now... Poch looks tired and needs a break.
Let's see if he is still available at the end of the season if things don't go to well for us.
What happens if we make top 4 and win the Europa League ?
Give Ole a chance.....
 
Nakhon Phanom said:
Not now... Poch looks tired and needs a break.
Let's see if he is still available at the end of the season if things don't go to well for us.
What happens if we make top 4 and win the Europa League ?
Give Ole a chance.....
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Personally I would still want Pochettino to get appointed whatever happens with europa league. I do worry about him not being backed by our utterly useless board much like we have seen happen at Spurs though.
 
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el3mel said:
I don't agree with that kind of thinking at all, especially while we were playing at home but whatever. We won't agree on this.
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There is a sign positive from that game which is why people always quoted that game. To begin with we were already in disadvantage because we lost both Pogba & Martial which two our best players while Liverpool only lost Salah. This is not about mid table level thing, no team has obtained a point from Liverpool this season so far and Liverpool is title challenger contender, while we are still in rebuilding process.

And the most important thing is the drew result was like a lost for us because we should have won that game. During the match, Liverpool couldn't threatening de Gea at all. Klopp was pleased with the point because he knew he was even lucky enough to even get a goal & grab a point in that match.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
There is a sign positive from that game which is why people always quoted that game. To begin with we were already in disadvantage because we lost both Pogba & Martial which two our best players while Liverpool only lost Salah. This is not about mid table level thing, no team has obtained a point from Liverpool this season so far and Liverpool is title challenger contender, while we are still in rebuilding process.

And the most important thing is the drew result was like a lost for us because we should have won that game. During the match, Liverpool couldn't threatening de Gea at all. Klopp was pleased with the point because he knew he was even lucky enough to even get a goal & grab a point in that match.
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People are exaggerating. We had been good in big games under LvG too, even though we were crap for the majority of his second season and it didn't mean anything at the end. We raise our game in big games and accompany it with playing defensive football. Just like any proper under dog mid-table team will do really. Nothing to be proud of here. Don't mid-table clubs come to play against us with the same tactics, and don't we lose against teams who are on shite form and say we are their cup final ? I don't see the difference.
 
el3mel said:
People are exaggerating. We had been good in big games under LvG too, even though we were crap for the majority of his second season and it didn't mean anything at the end. We raise our game in big games and accompany it with playing defensive football. Just like any proper under dog mid-table team will do really. Nothing to be proud of here. Don't mid-table clubs come to play against us with the same tactics, and don't we lose against teams who are on shite form and say we are their cup final ? I don't see the difference.
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The positive under Ole so far is not just the big game though which what you fail to see. On the other hand, under LVG the only positive you can take is that we performed in big games.

Your way of thinking is naive not realistic. What Ole did in that Liverpool was realistic not being a naive. When you lost two of your best players, have midfield option that can't dominate or control midfield & playing against Liverpool who is title challenger level & also one of the European best team at the moment, you don't go attack with naive thinking when the score was already 1-0 up for us and Ole knows that our strength is our pace in attack & our defense not our midfield area.

In fact we only started defending in 2nd half in that game and we had to because Liverpool changed their formation, went full attack and we are already 1-0 up. Their midfield know how to keep the ball and better than ours.

Think first before jump into conclusion why the manager had to approach the game the way that you don't like.
 
Its not that i am Ole in at all costs, but i dont want Poch now. I really dont
  • He hasnt won a thing his entire career. Nothing
  • He did not "build" that Tottenham team, Levy did. Poch has said so much himself, his role there was more of a coach than a manager
  • Considering the circumstances he was showered with praise for getting Spurs as a regular top 4 contender. Spurs has always been top a top 6 team so its not that a big leap
  • Hes never had a job like this one, the pressure is massive compared to Spurs
  • Taking over mid season is not ideal for a new manager. If he takes over now and ends up outside top 4, the pressure on him will be massive to deliver in August
  • Maybe he needs a holiday? Cant imagine hes in the best place right now considering he just got sacked

I knew this would happen though. Poch gets sacked and everyone on the caf loses their shit. Someone like Allegri i get because hes actually managed big clubs and has a big trophy cabinet, but Pochettino is another spin at the wheel and despite what people think he wont guarantee success just because he took Spurs up one notch
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
The positive under Ole so far is not just the big game though which what you fail to see. On the other hand, under LVG the only positive you can take is that we performed in big games.

Your way of thinking is naive not realistic. What Ole did in that Liverpool was realistic not being a naive. When you lost two of your best players, have midfield option that can't dominate or control midfield & playing against Liverpool who is title challenger level & also one of the European best team at the moment, you don't go attack with naive thinking when the score was already 1-0 up for us. In fact we only started defending in 2nd half in that game and we had to because Liverpool changed their formation, went full attack and we are already 1-0 up. Their midfield know how to keep the ball and better than ours.

Think first before jump into conclusion why the manager had to approach the game that you didn't like.
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You are talking on no basis. I praised him to an extent after Liverpool game and said I myself I had no problems with defensive tactics in general. However I won't go and be proud of playing like an under dog in every big game and mention drawing with one at home as some sort of achievement in every thread as if we are Stoke fecking City pulling a point against big boys. I also found it funny how other people warming to the idea of playing overly defensive football and getting less than 38% possession in almost every big game while and Tom, Dark or Harry of managers will be slaughtered here for such approach and same exact people will be saying "Crap, worse teams have a go and play better against such teams while we park the bus". That is what was always being said here.

The Ole in crowd are just changing almost every narrative to make Ole look good at the end, even if it contradicts their previous opinions.

Again, I myself haven't had much problems with defensive tactics since Mourinho days, but going on being proud of it and mentioning a draw at home with 32% in every thread as some sort of an achievement is honestly embarrassing for any United fan. I can't get how any of you don't feel that while typing this just for the sole purpose of making Ole look good. OK, decent defensive display and managed to hold them back, move on now, but nope, act like a mid-table club who can't believe how they parked the bus and managed a draw a big team.

You guys need to improve your expectations instead of focusing your sole efforts on just showing that Ole is doing a good job regardless of everything else.
 
el3mel said:
You are talking on no basis. I praised him to an extent after Liverpool game and said I myself I had no problems with defensive tactics in general. However I won't go and be proud of playing like an under dog in every big game and mention drawing with one at home as some sort of achievement in every thread as if we are Stoke fecking City pulling a point against big boys. I also found it funny how other people warming to the idea of playing overly defensive football and getting less than 38% possession in almost every big game while and Tom, Dark or Harry of managers will be slaughtered here for such approach and same exact people will be saying "Crap, worse teams have a go and play better against such teams while we park the bus". That is what was always being said here.

The Ole in crowd are just changing almost every narrative to make Ole look good at the end, even if it contradicts their previous opinions.

Again, I myself haven't had much problems with defensive tactics since Mourinho days, but going on being proud of it and mentioning a draw at home with 32% in every thread as some sort of an achievement is honestly embarrassing for any United fan. I can't get how any of you don't feel that while typing this just for the sole purpose of making Ole look good. OK, decent defensive display and managed to hold them back, move on now, but nope, act like a mid-table club who can't believe how they parked the bus and managed a draw a big team.

You guys need to improve your expectations instead of focusing your sole efforts on just showing that Ole is doing a good job regardless of everything else.
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If you think I am talking on no basis then you are simply not reading what I just said. People only took some positive from the Liverpool game because in reality we could have won that game because Liverpool barely even threat us at all.

We already in disadvantage to begin with by losing two of our best players Pogba & Martial. How do you expect us to play like what you wanted when we are missing those two?

Saying that we only went defensive mode in that Liverpool game means you only watched the 2nd half only and missed the first half. We actually went toe to toe in first half but had to go in defensive mode in second half because Liverpool changed their formation to go all out attack and we were 1-0 up. Realistically how do you expect us to play like what you wanted when we don't have midfield who can dominate & control the midfield against team who has been one of the best in Europe at the moment and have better midfield than us who can keep the ball well?

Still can't see why the manager has to go defensive approach in that game?
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
If you think I am talking on no basis then you are simply not reading what I just said. People only took some positive from the Liverpool game because in reality we could have won that game because Liverpool barely even threat us at all.

We already in disadvantage to begin with by losing two of our best players Pogba & Martial. How do you expect us to play like what you wanted when we are missing those two?

Saying that we only went defensive mode in that Liverpool game means you only watched the 2nd half only and missed the first half. We actually went toe to toe in first half but had to go in defensive mode in second half because Liverpool changed their formation to go all out attack and we were 1-0 up. Realistically how do you expect us to play like what you wanted when we don't have midfield who can dominate & control the midfield against team who has been one of the best in Europe at the moment and have better midfield than us who can keep the ball well?

Still can't see why the manager has to go defensive approach in that game?
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We play defensive football in most if not all big teams, getting consistently less than 38% possession, against or not against Liverpool, with or without Pogba and Martial. I brought our possessions stats in several big games extending from even our honeymoon period last season and they were all less than 38%. We are very defensive in big games under Ole. Just because people are warming to the idea and giving it better names now than they were previously, it doesn't really change that.
 
El Zoido said:
Ambition. :lol: He’s on the way to getting them relegated, that’s why he’s gone. He’s a busted flush and has won nothing.

Feck me the state of the caf. No words.
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3 months of bad results vs many years of overperformance.
I think the good outweighs the bad here.
 
el3mel said:
We play defensive football in most if not all big teams, getting consistently less than 38% possession, against or not against Liverpool, with or without Pogba and Martial. I brought our possessions stats in several big games extending from even our honeymoon period last season and they were all less than 38%. We are very defensive in big games under Ole. Just because people are warming to the idea and giving it better names now than they were previously, it doesn't really change that.
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I have just told you that we don't have midfield who can dominate & control the midfield and you still ignore this. How do you expect us to win great possession in the game with the midfield we got right now. I have said this before and I will say it again, think first before jump into conclusion why the manager had to approach the game the way that you don't like. It's about being realistic not being naive.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
I have just told you that we don't have midfield who can dominate & control the midfield and you still ignore this. How do you expect us to win great possession in the game with the midfield we got right now. I have said this before and I will say it again, think first before jump into conclusion why the manager had to approach the game the way that you don't like. It's about being realistic not being naive.
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That wasn't the narrative 1-2 years ago. Previously it was "worse teams have a go at big teams and try to play against them while playing better football". I mentioned that.
 
el3mel said:
That wasn't the narrative 1-2 years ago. Previously it was "worse teams have a go at big teams and try to play against them while playing better football". I mentioned that.
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I don't get your point.

Anyway, your way of thinking is naive. Ole is playing the strength that we are currently have in our squad and midfield is not the strength.

If you really do being serious giving credit on Ole after the Liverpool game then surely you understand why he went such an approach, but it looks like you got no clue why he did it and just randomly for no reason giving the man credit. If he went full trying to dominate the game full 90 mins against those top opposition like Chelsea, Liverpool & City with the injuries we had & our current level of midfield then it's 3 points loss.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
I don't get your point.

You are naive if you think right now we have the midfield who is capable to dominate against the likes of Chelsea, City & Liverpool. Ole is playing the strength that we are currently have in our squad and midfield is not the strength.

Your way of thinking is naive. If you really do being serious giving credit on Ole after the Liverpool game then surely you understand why he went such an approach, but it looks like you got no clue why he did it and just randomly for no reason giving the man credit. If he went full trying to dominate the game full 90 mins against those top opposition with the injuries we had & our current level of midfield then it's 3 points loss.
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No one is asking us to dominate big teams and get +60%, what is expected is being competitive with them and trading possession which is what should be expected from big clubs. Big games usually have shared possession of 45-55% or so, not consistently under 40% against almost everyone. If we are playing the under dog role, getting less than 38% possession and park the bus, OK, I'm not mad with that, decent defensive display, move on now, but nothing to be proud of and it is definitely not a sign for building any thing for the future to keep continously mentioning it left, right and center as some sort of a big thing. I don't get the huge thing in defending against big teams and getting a result from that? Literally most small teams in the league do that with us despite having no name managers. It's not a miracle. The achievement is actually being able to play a competitive style in big games.

Ironically all of this if it has been said 1-2 years ago from now no one would have disagreed but now it's being naive. It just shows how the narrative changes thanks to the present manager. People are more fine now with the under dog mentality than they were previously.

Defensive tactics aren't a big problem personally and I'm fine with it but they aren't a miracle and surely nothing to be very proud of.
 
Mainoldo said:
When did he beat him with a new and inferior squad?
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We (Ole) beat Tottenham (Poch) away 13. january, and at 25 july.
Bobcat said:
Its not that i am Ole in at all costs, but i dont want Poch now. I really dont
  • He hasnt won a thing his entire career. Nothing
  • He did not "build" that Tottenham team, Levy did. Poch has said so much himself, his role there was more of a coach than a manager
  • Considering the circumstances he was showered with praise for getting Spurs as a regular top 4 contender. Spurs has always been top a top 6 team so its not that a big leap
  • Hes never had a job like this one, the pressure is massive compared to Spurs
  • Taking over mid season is not ideal for a new manager. If he takes over now and ends up outside top 4, the pressure on him will be massive to deliver in August
  • Maybe he needs a holiday? Cant imagine hes in the best place right now considering he just got sacked

I knew this would happen though. Poch gets sacked and everyone on the caf loses their shit. Someone like Allegri i get because hes actually managed big clubs and has a big trophy cabinet, but Pochettino is another spin at the wheel and despite what people think he wont guarantee success just because he took Spurs up one notch
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Agree.

Poch have just taken a team that he have coached for 5 years, down to the 14th. place. I dont think he has what it takes to manage Manchester United at its curent state.

I think the best idea is to let Ole keep on with the rebuild that he just started on.

The only managers i think it would be worth to restart the rebuilding process for, is 1. Klop and 2. Pep.
 
Bobcat said:
Its not that i am Ole in at all costs, but i dont want Poch now. I really dont
  • He hasnt won a thing his entire career. Nothing
  • He did not "build" that Tottenham team, Levy did. Poch has said so much himself, his role there was more of a coach than a manager
  • Considering the circumstances he was showered with praise for getting Spurs as a regular top 4 contender. Spurs has always been top a top 6 team so its not that a big leap
  • Hes never had a job like this one, the pressure is massive compared to Spurs
  • Taking over mid season is not ideal for a new manager. If he takes over now and ends up outside top 4, the pressure on him will be massive to deliver in August
  • Maybe he needs a holiday? Cant imagine hes in the best place right now considering he just got sacked

I knew this would happen though. Poch gets sacked and everyone on the caf loses their shit. Someone like Allegri i get because hes actually managed big clubs and has a big trophy cabinet, but Pochettino is another spin at the wheel and despite what people think he wont guarantee success just because he took Spurs up one notch
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The ‘won nothing’ tag will inevitably hang over him but he’s had to compete with City at full force for his entire tenure and a resurgent Liverpool in the past couple of seasons. He’s done a pretty decent job in the circumstances. Don’t forget too his success at previous clubs in developing a very watchable brand and some astute signings.
 
el3mel said:
No one is asking us to dominate big teams and get +60%, what is expected is being competitive with them and trading possession which is what should be expected from big clubs. Big games usually have shared possession of 45-55% or so, not consistently under 40% against almost everyone. If we are playing the under dog role, getting less than 38% possession and park the bus, OK, I'm not mad with that, decent defensive display, move on now, but nothing to be proud of and it is definitely not a sign for building any thing for the future to keep continously mentioning it left, right and center as some sort of a big thing. I don't get the huge thing in defending against big teams and getting a result from that? Literally most small teams in the league do that with us despite having no name managers. It's not a miracle. The achievement is actually being able to play a competitive style in big games.

Ironically all of this if it has been said 1-2 years ago from now no one would have disagreed but now it's being naive. It just shows how the narrative changes thanks to the present manager. People are more fine now with the under dog mentality than they were previously.

Defensive tactics aren't a big problem personally and I'm fine with it but they aren't a miracle and surely nothing to be very proud of.
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How do you expect the team to be competitive with midfield who is incapable to dominate & control midfield? With a midfield clearly worse than Chelsea, Liverpool & City, how?

What's the point giving Ole the credit after the Liverpool game if you can't even understand why he went the approach that he did, it was just a big fat lie praise that you gave him.

Under Jose Mourinho we played parking the bus. Under Ole, we play more a counter press. You need to understand the difference here. If it was under Mourinho we would have park the bus and play defensive mode against Brighton as soon as they scored that 1 goal to made it 2-1. Under Ole, we went for another goal.
 
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UNITED ACADEMY said:
How do you expect the team to be competitive with midfield who is incapable to dominate & control midfield. With a midfield clearly worse than Chelsea, Liverpool & City. How?

What's the point giving Ole the credit after the Liverpool game if you can't even understand why he went the approach that he did, it was just a big fat lie praise that you gave him.
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What makes the midfield not being able to compete and share a possession of 45-55? Just because you think that doesn't mean it's an absolute fact. With a Matic-Herrera-Pogba we also got less than 38% last season when we defeated Chelsea and Arsenal in FA Cup, Spurs in the league and drew 0-0 to Liverpool at OT. Was that midfield not being able to compete too? It's Ole's style as simple as that. He has done it with all midfield combinations even during honeymoon period, not just the current season.

He got credit for holding down Liverpool attack and put on a decent defensive display. That's it. There's nothing else miraculous about this game to keep mentioning it all the time. We put on a good defensive set up and managed to contain Liverpool, OK, move on. Definitely won't be the type of football we will building on for the upcoming future if you ask me to take it as any sign or indication. And as United fans, we shouldn't be mentioning a draw at home with 32% against a big team as a big achievement. You know, you can credit the manager for certain things without acting like it's a miracle.
 
Oh my! Mourinho appointed Spurs manager on deal until end of 2023 season! This is going to be drama :lol:
 
I think he is a fantastic manager. I think people take what he has done at spurs for granted, considering the money they've spent. His players play for him and he manages to develop them well. The state of Spurs today is what it is due to Levy.

The best case would be that he takes 6 months off, we see out the season with Ole and make a non-sentimental decision about how to proceed.

It being unfair to Ole should have no bearing at all. If we don't see a clear strategy, with a clear style of play, and the ability to win games consistently, then we cannot pass Poch up. And if Ole does manage to turn it around, then we wouldn't need to change.
 
meamth said:
Guess you haven't been paying attention.

High pressing is applied in all PL teams nowadays.

Bournemouth, Leicester, Norwich, Burnley.. basically since it was first brought in the league by Klopp, everyone has been training to be able to press like them.

All teams are capable, but to sustain it with a large and quality squad over a long season is what separating Liverpool and City.
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I think many teams try it. Only three have the technical sophistication to successfully apply it. I simply don't think the Liverpool squad is all that amazing. What sets them apart is the quality of their coaching.

A lot of managers, Ole included, think they are high pressing. But most of the time they're leaving huge gaps because their players aren't good enough, bright enough, or well coached enough to master the system.
 
el3mel said:
It's honestly embarrassing to keep saying such a thing as an achievement. We are acting as if we are Stock City who managed to draw against one of the big boys. Full midtable club mentality that.

Won't even comment on that fantastic job part that.
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You are missing the point of the discussion.

We are talking about Oles job with rebuilding our curent team, which is the bench mark for any manager we consider to hire.

And I dont think Poch would be able to do a better job than Ole at Manchester United, the way things are here.

Of topic 1: Yes, Poch has been a good coach.

Of topic 2: I dont think anyone is "proud" of taking points from Liverpool or Chelsea, in a historical context. But that is good results for our team right now. That doesent mean supporters are proud about that now ither.
 
mancave bear said:
You are missing the point of the discussion.

We are talking about Oles job with rebuilding our curent team, which is the bench mark for any manager we consider to hire.

And I dont think Poch would be able to do a better job than Ole at Manchester United, the way things are here.

Of topic 1: Yes, Poch has been a good coach.

Of topic 2: I dont think anyone is "proud" of taking points from Liverpool or Chelsea, in a historical context. But that is good results for our team right now. That doesent mean supporters are proud about that now ither.
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Why not?
 
el3mel said:
What makes the midfield not being able to compete and share a possession of 45-55? Just because you think that doesn't mean it's an absolute fact. With a Matic-Herrera-Pogba we also got less than 38% last season when we defeated Chelsea and Arsenal in FA Cup, Spurs in the league and drew 0-0 to Liverpool at OT. Was that midfield not being able to compete too? It's Ole's style as simple as that. He has done it with all midfield combinations even during honeymoon period, not just the current season.

He got credit for holding down Liverpool attack and put on a decent defensive display. That's it. There's nothing else miraculous about this game to keep mentioning it all the time. We put on a good defensive set up and managed to contain Liverpool, OK, move on. Definitely won't be the type of football we will building on for the upcoming future if you ask me to take it as any sign or indication. And as United fans, we shouldn't be mentioning a draw at home with 32% against a big team as a big achievement. You know, you can credit the manager for certain things without acting like it's a miracle.
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But you also ignoring that we had games where we had similar possession.

46% vs 54% is what we got at home against Chelsea this season when we beat them 4-0.

52% vs 48% is what we got at home against Chelsea 1-1 last season end of the season.

55% vs 45% is what we got at away against Arsenal 1-1 this season.

46% vs 54 is what we got at away against Arsenal 0-2 last season.

You fail to understand why Ole had to go such a approach sometimes. Your way of thinking is naive.

You even used 1-2 years ago as example which actually different. If we had to defend then we had to defend depends on the situation we are in. While under Jose, we could go defensive approach even against the lesser team. Under Jose Mourinho we played parking the bus. Under Ole, we play more a counter press. Against team who can dominate midfield, Ole decided to approach the game differently and playing our strength not our weakness.

You need to understand the difference here. If it was under Mourinho we would have park the bus and play defensive mode against Brighton as soon as they scored that 1 goal to made it 2-1. Under Ole, we went for another goal.
 
dogwithabone said:
The ‘won nothing’ tag will inevitably hang over him but he’s had to compete with City at full force for his entire tenure and a resurgent Liverpool in the past couple of seasons. He’s done a pretty decent job in the circumstances. Don’t forget too his success at previous clubs in developing a very watchable brand and some astute signings.
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That's not entirely true though is it? Leichester won the league in 15/16 when basically ever other big team was busy shitting themselves, that does not reflect well on him imo. When he took over at the end of 13/14 that Spurs team had the likes of Danny Rose, Verthongen, Walker, Soldado, Townsend, Sigurdson, Eriksen, Lloris and Kane was on the cusp of breaking through. Not only was that quite a good core to work with, most of them were quite young as well

If you look at spending only then its clear that Spurs have been punching above their weight under Poch, but as we have emphatically shown the last years, spending does no equal a good squad and small spending can build you a good squad if you know what you are doing. In either case, Levy has been the one doing the transfer business, not Poch

kafta said:
I think he is a fantastic manager. I think people take what he has done at spurs for granted, considering the money they've spent. His players play for him and he manages to develop them well. The state of Spurs today is what it is due to Levy.

The best case would be that he takes 6 months off, we see out the season with Ole and make a non-sentimental decision about how to proceed.

It being unfair to Ole should have no bearing at all. If we don't see a clear strategy, with a clear style of play, and the ability to win games consistently, then we cannot pass Poch up. And if Ole does manage to turn it around, then we wouldn't need to change.
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Could not agree more. Changing managers mid season is stupid for so many reasons. Anyone thinking Poch will transform us simply by his magical coaching abilities needs a reality check. If he took over today we would probably limp on as we have, maybe we got slightly better, maybe we got slightly worse, but taking over a new squad, in a new club and transforming them mid season simply does not happen.

If Poch takes over now and does not instantly improve us, i can guarantee you that the knives will be out by the end of the season, and suddenly we would be out shopping for another one. If there are no signs of progress come May then by all means, get Poch and give him a shot, but getting him now would put him (Poch) in an incredibly difficult spot
 
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