Under Ten Hag could Pogba have been sensational?

BuzzKillington said:
Giroud was also in that France team, it doesn’t make him a world class centre forward. I’m not saying Giroud was shit but nobody’s talking about his unrealised potential on the back of him winning a World Cup.
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Talk of a classic straw man and non sequitur fallacy.

First. The Debate isn't 'is Pogba world class". That's a straw man. The debate is can Pogba perform at optimum level in a tactically structured team. Juventus and France are proof he can, end of story.


Second. Giroud is irrelevant to the debate. He has never had issues in a tactical structure thus there is no reason to bring him up. So that us a non sequitur. Furthermore You also show up the inane level of distaste you have for Pogba when you try to dare equate the level of Giroud as a player to Pogba. Both in general and in that French world cup winning team. A team that was structured around Pogba and fully harnessed his best qualities that led them to glory.

BuzzKillington said:
Also was Pogba really all that important to that Juve team, or was he just a fairly promising young player, with a good highlights real and who the caf had a vested interest in hyping because we were shit at the time and had Morgan Schneiderlin in midfield?
The fact you can ask such a ludicrous question confirms what I stated early. You laughable lot prefer to pretend his Juventus years didn't happen. Prefer to pretend he was just a fringe young player being carried there. Prefer to pretend he had no defensive responsibility and the like is Pirlo( :lol: :lol:) "carried him defensively". Prefer to pretend his best season at United don't happen under a structured manager like Mourinho. The list is night endless....Facts and reality be damned in your quest to paint Pogba as overrated shit

BuzzKillington said:
On the main question, no EtH would have struggled the same as every other manager, because Pogba lacks application, concentration and drive to be the best. He’d have been the exact same frustrating player he was under all of our previous managers.
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As stated earlier. Conte and Allegri never struggled with him at Juve. Mourinho in his first 2 seasons here didn't either. But don't let them pesky facts get in the way of your desire to paint him a certain way.
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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Talk of a classic straw man and non sequitur fallacy.

First. The Debate isn't 'is Pogba world class". That's a straw man. The debate is can Pogba perform at optimum level in a tactically structured team. Juventus and France are proof he can, end of story.


Second. Giroud is irrelevant to the debate. He has never had issues in a tactical structure thus there is no reason to bring him up. So that us a non sequitur. Furthermore You also show up the inane level of distaste you have for Pogba when you try to dare equate the level of Giroud as a player to Pogba. Both in general and in that French world cup winning team. A team that was structured around Pogba and fully harnessed his best qualities that led them to glory.
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Is that really the debate? It's under Ten Hag's structure and system and what he would require of Pogba, no?

Besides that, Mourinho also had a tactical structure, and he didn't perform there (could be personal motivation too why he didn't as they fell out).

Juventus and France are merely proofs that he can perform at their way of playing. Has to be noticed though that besides the World Cup, Pogba hasn't always been good in his performances for France.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Is that really the debate? It's under Ten Hag's structure and system and what he would require of Pogba, no?

Besides that, Mourinho also had a tactical structure, and he didn't perform there (could be personal motivation too why he didn't as they fell out).

Juventus and France are merely proofs that he can perform at their way of playing. Has to be noticed though that besides the World Cup, Pogba hasn't always been good in his performances for France.
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The way we are set, I would say that ETH would expect the same things that Deschamps expects from Pogba. The way he was used by Juventus which was still very tactical is a bit too far from what I imagine ETH would demand.

As for the last point, it's only true for pre 2016, Pogba has been generally good to very good for France after the introduction of playmakers and Pogba having less to do in an attacking sense.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Is that really the debate?
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Clearly not. Yet BuzzKillington, certainly believes it is.....

ROFLUTION said:
It's under Ten Hag's structure and system and what he would require of Pogba, no?
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ETH operates a structured tactical system. Pogba thrived under Allegri and Juve in structured tactical systems. His best 2 seasons at United where the first 2 under Mourinho's structured tactical system. France won the world cup with him key in their tactical structured system. If you can't spot the pattern, we can't help you....

ROFLUTION said:
Besides that, Mourinho also had a tactical structure, and he didn't perform there (could be personal motivation too why he didn't as they fell out).
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This is myth. Pogba was excellent in Mourinho's first 2 season. He like most the squad fell out with Mourinho in the third.
ROFLUTION said:
Juventus and France are merely proofs that he can perform at their way of playing. Has to be noticed though that besides the World Cup, Pogba hasn't always been good in his performances for France.
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First, Pogba has constantly been accused of "saving his best for France not United" by the English press and United fans alike. Y'all can't reverse that and suddenly claim " he hasn't always been good for France". Pick a fight and stick to it.

Second, Juventus and France are proof he thrives in tactically structured teams. That has been under 3 very different managers. To thus imagine he'd flounder in ETH system is hence pure fantasy land. The latest chapter in the cafes long tradition of hating on Pogba for hating sake.
 
Pogba with Casemeiro potentially does well but not definate in the current setup, Pogba has always needed a strong XI to be in place for him to shine
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Clearly not. Yet BuzzKillington, certainly believes it is.....


ETH operates a structured tactical system. Pogba thrived under Allegri and Juve in structured tactical systems. His best 2 seasons at United where the first 2 under Mourinho's structured tactical system. France won the world cup with him key in their tactical structured system. If you can't spot the pattern, we can't help you....

This is myth. Pogba was excellent in Mourinho's first 2 season. He like most the squad fell out with Mourinho in the third.

First, Pogba has constantly been accused of "saving his best for France not United" by the English press and United fans alike. Y'all can't reverse that and suddenly claim " he hasn't always been good for France". Pick a fight and stick to it.

Second, Juventus and France are proof he thrives in tactically structured teams. That has been under 3 very different managers. To thus imagine he'd flounder in ETH system is hence pure fantasy land. The latest chapter in the cafes long tradition of hating on Pogba for hating sake.
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And we have seen what happens when Pogba has a "free" role, it was the case for France before 2016 and he was largely shoddy. It's the more tactical and cynical approach that turned things around for everyone including Pogba.
 
All Pogba needed was more time. But that’s modern football for you. Fans are impatient. They expect results now now now. He was barely here 6 years before people lost patience.
 
JPRouve said:
The way we are set, I would say that ETH would expect the same things that Deschamps expects from Pogba. The way he was used by Juventus which was still very tactical is a bit too far from what I imagine ETH would demand.

As for the last point, it's only true for pre 2016, Pogba has been generally good to very good for France after the introduction of playmakers and Pogba having less to do in an attacking sense.
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It could be about him being appreciated more too, but I really think it needs to be taken into account that the opponents at international level (and Italy for that matter) is way worse than that of Premier League where he gets pressured constantly. Don't wanna take anything away from him and his World Cup though, he did brilliantly.

In (knock-out) tournaments few teams are pressing all the time, but many have an approach of setting up defensively, to avoid defeat as it's a knock-out tournament, so that automatically creates less pressure on him than in Premier League where the pace and pressing is in 90 minutes and constantly. He does look a lot sharper at distributing the ball at France however, than at under Jose/Ole.

Goes for my reply to @Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber: The pressing in the Premier League didn't suit Pogba last time around, so you got to ask the question too if you believe he'd thrive under Ten Hag - Would he thrive under being pressured constantly again? A system is after all designed and tweaked to work to the league as that's what you aim to win.

The systems/structures at France and Juve are just suited for something else/other opponents, so it seems a bit strange to hold to this as proof of a lot. By the way you seem very presuming about all fans who think Pogba wouldnt thrive under Ten Hag, and you easily put them/me in a basket with tabloid-newspapers - quite unsuitable for any debate really that you're just yelling at posters open for debate - I just disagree with you, please don't generalise like that.
 
Cassidy said:
Large underestimation of ETH as a coach. Many were saying he wouldn’t use Bruno either because he lacks discipline etc.

ETH builds the team around the talents he has and he would have utilised Pogbas talents
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He's already made crucial changes in the midfield and the defence. Let's see how the side will look after two or three transfer windows and what choices he will make to maximise his impact

I like the man and he was my number one choice when Solskjaer got the sack, but every manager needs his own players. Even Klopp and Pep made massive changes to the squads they inherited. There's a misconception on here, since the Fergie days, that managers should be miracle workers. They are not. Although it's true that ETH is the the best manager we had in almost a decade

The argument i was trying to make isn't about Pogba's qualities. We know for a fact that ETH was looking for a different midfielder. He adjusted pretty well to not getting him. Eiksen may not be as good as Pogba in many aspects, but he is a manager's player. He does the basics well, he can hold his position and he moves to receive the ball, instead of waiting for it to reach his feet (which is a huge headache when you have to fit Pogba in your side). He's helping ETH as much as ETH helps him. Which, in fairness, it's the way it should be. Otherwise, we end up having endless discussions about x, z, y player's "best" position. Plus, as i said, Eriksen comes with no drama surrounding his every move or post on SM. And for me, that's a huge bonus.
 
ROFLUTION said:
It could be about him being appreciated more too, but I really think it needs to be taken into account that the opponents at international level (and Italy for that matter) is way worse than that of Premier League where he gets pressured constantly. Don't wanna take anything away from him and his World Cup though, he did brilliantly.

In (knock-out) tournaments few teams are pressing all the time, but many have an approach of setting up defensively, to avoid defeat as it's a knock-out tournament, so that automatically creates less pressure on him than in Premier League where the pace and pressing is in 90 minutes and constantly. He does look a lot sharper at distributing the ball at France however, than at under Jose/Ole.

Goes for my reply to @Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber: The pressing in the Premier League didn't suit Pogba last time around, so you got to ask the question too if you believe he'd thrive under Ten Hag - Would he thrive under being pressured constantly again? A system is after all designed and tweaked to work to the league as that's what you aim to win.

The systems/structures at France and Juve are just suited for something else/other opponents, so it seems a bit strange to hold to this as proof of a lot. By the way you seem very presuming about all fans who think Pogba wouldnt thrive under Ten Hag, and you easily put them/me in a basket with tabloid-newspapers - quite unsuitable for any debate really that you're just yelling at posters open for debate - I just disagree with you, please don't generalise like that.
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He wasn't appreciated at all. And no we shouldn't take into account the opponents at international level since the comparison that I'm making is mainly within international Football. Pogba has been far better in a more structured, tactical setup for France. And the probable reason is actually not flattering for Pogba, while he has good vision when it comes to passes, he is not smart when it comes to reading games situations at a larger scale, he can't control games to save his life unless he has clear instructions and a limited role which is what Juventus and France provided. The key for France or Juventus was that Pogba was a support player to a larger structure.
 
JPRouve said:
He wasn't appreciated at all. And no we shouldn't take into account the opponents at international level since the comparison that I'm making is mainly within international Football. Pogba has been far better in a more structured, tactical setup for France. And the probable reason is actually not flattering for Pogba, while he has good vision when it comes to passes, he is not smart when it comes to reading games situations at a larger scale, he can't control games to save his life unless he has clear instructions and a limited role which is what Juventus and France provided. The key for France or Juventus was that Pogba was a support player to a larger structure.
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But this thread - this debate - is about him working under Ten Hag and Premier League, as that's where we primarily play. Even when if/when we make it to the international top level with Champions League-football, it'd possibly be against coherent teams who press too (The teams who have the time to play week in, week out under the same tactics - international teams doesn't always have this continuity).

I'm just stating that we should take international teamlevel (and italian level) for what it is, and that it's not like Premier League, therefore it's hard to argue neither of them are proof he could cut it here under Ten Hag, as it's the pressing and tempo that has looked his problem under different managers and 6 years at United.
 
ROFLUTION said:
But this thread - this debate - is about him working under Ten Hag and Premier League, as that's where we primarily play. Even when if/when we make it to the international top level with Champions League-football, it'd possibly be against coherent teams who press too (The teams who have the time to play week in, week out under the same tactics - international teams doesn't always have this continuity).

I'm just stating that we should take international teamlevel (and italian level) for what it is, and that it's not like Premier League, therefore it's hard to argue neither of them are proof he could cut it here under Ten Hag, as it's the pressing and tempo that has looked his problem under different managers and 6 years at United.
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The point made is that Pogba has been better in structured organizations versus less structured organizations. It makes no logical sense to witness a pattern and then argue the opposite which is what you are doing. Pogba has been better for everyone in a structured system, even the Ole interim period is one where United played in a structured way, with everyone having clear roles, things went south for everyone when Ole tried to change things up.

Also Pogba has been good in the Premier League, he may not have matched the hype but he was mainly good until 2019 injuries piled on. Any narrative based on but it's not the PL is off the mark.
 
Only a matter of time before Lukaku style we should never have let him go threads emerge.
 
JPRouve said:
The point made is that Pogba has been better in structured organizations versus less structured organizations. It makes no logical sense to witness a pattern and then argue the opposite which is what you are doing. Pogba has been better for everyone in a structured system, even the Ole interim period is one where United played in a structured way, with everyone having clear roles, things went south for everyone when Ole tried to change things up.

Also Pogba has been good in the Premier League, he may not have matched the hype but he was mainly good until 2019 injuries piled on. Any narrative based on but it's not the PL is off the mark.
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I really don't agree that he's been good compared to his skills except the season he scored 13 goals, so it seems we're entering this debate with different premises/views on it. Good compared to lesser players yes, but seldom good for United as a team. He had stints where he'd be good for the team in 5-6 games and performing/not injured (5-6 games is a stretch however) but then for the remaining games he'd be dwelling on the ball and not defensively sound enough or just performing badly - that's either a sign of a bad team he plays under or a player who can't cope with the league/is not focused here. There were so many examples of Pogba not being focused or just plain bad against midtable teams.

I understand your point about structured vs less structured, but the overall debate is whether he would thrive here under Ten Hag - So the factors of whether he'd do that is not just about structure vs less structure. It's about much more, and it's about the pace and pressure of the Premier League, the quality of the opponents, the systems of the opponents too. You just need to have watched Pogba against lesser teams to figure that out - he just wasn't focused or good at playing it out under pressure, which is a huge thing under Ten Hag and in current day Premier League football. It's simply really, therefore he'd have a hard time thriving under Ten Hag (Not in Juve, Not in France - the thread is about under Ten Hag).
 
ROFLUTION said:
I really don't agree that he's been good compared to his skills except the season he scored 13 goals, so it seems we're entering this debate with different premises/views on it. Good compared to lesser players yes, but seldom good for United as a team. He had stints where he'd be good for the team in 5-6 games and performing/not injured (5-6 games is a stretch however) but then for the remaining games he'd be dwelling on the ball and not defensively sound enough or just performing badly - that's either a sign of a bad team he plays under or a player who can't cope with the league/is not focused here. There were so many examples of Pogba not being focused or just plain bad against midtable teams.

I understand your point about structured vs less structured, but the overall debate is whether he would thrive here under Ten Hag - So the factors of whether he'd do that is not just about structure vs less structure. It's about much more, and it's about the pace and pressure of the Premier League, the quality of the opponents, the systems of the opponents too. You just need to have watched Pogba against lesser teams to figure that out - he just wasn't focused or good at playing it out under pressure, which is a huge thing under Ten Hag and in current day Premier League football. It's simply really, therefore he'd have a hard time thriving under Ten Hag (Not in Juve, Not in France - the thread is about under Ten Hag).
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What skills are you talking about? Because judging Pogba on goals is a bit dubious. The rest has been talked about ad nauseum and isn't worth a new conversation.
 
JPRouve said:
What skills are you talking about? Because judging Pogba on goals is a bit dubious. The rest has been talked about ad nauseum and isn't worth a new conversation.
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His technical+physical+visionary skills. With those in mind, I think he should have performed better and been better consistently, but his focus against lesser sides has mostly been his problem. And I agree with the latter part^
 
His career is already in danger of being completely spoiled by the constant long term injuries, so I dont belive Pogba would even get the chance for any stretch of games.

At this stage I am not sure he will ever play 10 games in a row again.
 
He definitely would have been injured, that is one thing we are all certain off. Everything else is all up for debate. Personally he doesn't warrant the circus he brings with him.
 
The question on everyone's lips is.. what haircut would he be sporting if playing under EtH? Would he have shaved it completely bald in a show of solidarity with his manager? Or, let it grow out into a massive Fellaini style afro in an act of rebellion after being benched?

Interesting food for thought, but I guess we'll never quite know for sure
 
He's been teaching us all a lesson moving us to Juve and showing what we had last season and are missing this season. Why bring him back into the picture?
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Graeme is that you?
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Pogba has 0 work rate off the ball, he doesn't press. And he doesn't offer near as much as an actual world class player would in central midfield. Such an undisciplined passenger would never get into the team under ETH. Would've been identified as a bigger problem than De Gea and Ronaldo are currently.
 
MadDogg said:
In a midfield two? Nope, just like he didn't succeed there with the other managers. If we dropped Bruno and played Pogba as the most attacking of a three man midfield...still no just because of the injuries. The younger Pogba probably would have succeeded in that set-up though.


France basically always play a third central midfielder on the wing to help that midfield out.

I looked into it in detail a couple of years ago, and over a period of three or four years France only played Pogba in a true midfield two 4 times. All against very weak teams (two outside the top 100 ranked nations, two outside the top 50). The rest of the time they either played a three man midfield or what is listed as a two man midfield but with one of their 'wingers' being a player who normally plays as a central midfielder. It was worth noting that during the periods where Pogba was injured they were much more likely to play a proper two man midfield with true wingers on either side.

This was a couple of years ago so maybe there's been a change since then, but it was definitely true around that World Cup.

Borys said:
I'm pretty sure this has been proven mamy times Pogba doesn't play in midfield two for France, there's always another supporting midfielder.

Anyway, if I look at his skill set, he would do great in midfield three with Casemiro and Eriksen. He needs to be free of defensive duties to be at his best.

That said, his skills have never been an issue, rather mentality, discipline, focus, willingness to dribble past multiple opponents in his own half etc. This guy is seriously overrated (because of very high ceiling), but I'm very glad he's someone else's problem now.
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I understand and I will take your words for it, I haven't watched to much of him for France but I always say a midfield two is not really a midfield to because you always have fullbacks or number 10's tacking in or dropping deep to help the midfield.
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padzilla said:
Only a matter of time before Lukaku style we should never have let him go threads emerge.
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Even if he starts turning it on at Juve, like Lukaku he will be associated with moving to a much more relaxed league and stat padding there. Getting rid of Pogba and signing Eriksen was one of the best decisions the club has made in a long time.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I'm sorry. I find it hard to take anyone seriously who believes such obvious myth. Pogba's first 3 seasons in the EPl were never a struggle. He only started waning once constant injury set in
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People are being extremely silly, I already made the count in the past and based on MotM awards from the caf, Pogba was by far our best performers according to the caf up until Bruno joined. And then I stumbled on the following post, it's a good thing that Pogba somehow couldn't handle the PL:
roonster09 said:
Since he joined the club (from 2016-17 to 2018-19 season) only Delli Alli and David Silva have contributed to more goals than Pogba (only CM and AM are considered*) but somehow he has not done anything of note in PL.

They all played most games as AM whereas Pogba played most games in midfield and in midfield 2.

* games where they played as CM/AM are considered, for example any games where Eriksen or Ozil played as wingers won't be considered in filter condition.

KdB stats would have been even better but he was injured for almost whole 2018-19 season.

PlayersG+AGamesTotal Mins
Dele Alli
52​
85​
7290​
David Silva
46​
83​
7055​
Paul Pogba
44​
87​
7592​
Kevin De Bruyne
43​
62​
5302​
Mesut Özil
30​
67​
5805​
Christian Eriksen
24​
64​
5663​
Luka Milivojevic
23​
73​
6481​
Gylfi Sigurdsson
22​
35​
3008​
Aaron Ramsey
20​
35​
2811​
Georginio Wijnaldum
19​
65​
5579​
Eden Hazard
18​
28​
2302​
Ilkay Gündogan
18​
47​
3928​
Abdoulaye Doucouré
17​
71​
6351​
Manuel Lanzini
17​
43​
3581​
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JPRouve said:
People are being extremely silly, I already made the count in the past and based on MotM awards from the caf, Pogba was by far our best performers according to the caf up until Bruno joined. And then I stumbled on the following post, it's a good that Pogba somehow couldn't handle the PL:
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You can argue anything with stats!

Someone will probably say this.
 
bringbackbebe said:
He's been teaching us all a lesson moving us to Juve and showing what we had last season and are missing this season. Why bring him back into the picture?
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Its a discussion on a forum. If you don’t want to be part of it you don’t have to
 
adexkola said:
You can argue anything with stats!

Someone will probably say this.
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I'm sure people will but the reality is that objectively Pogba has been to the level of a top midfielder(not the best but still among them) in the PL when fit and the majority of the caf thought so on the days the games were played. The question is how his good games turned into bad ones months after they were actually played, that's an incredible mystery.
 
Brophs said:
All Pogba needed was more time. But that’s modern football for you. Fans are impatient. They expect results now now now. He was barely here 6 years before people lost patience.
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Anyone who thinks he should have stayed is genuinely bonkers.
 
Ole'sgunnarwin said:
Anyone who thinks he should have stayed is genuinely bonkers.
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Bonkers is a strong word, but the correct word. It was evident after only one season that Pogba wanted out of OT...but he loved the cash that was firehosed into bank account every week and rode out his contract for every pound he could get out of the club while still putting in the bare minimum of effort while his agent made a mockery of us. Pogba was offered an incredible extension but by this summer he had banked enough off the club and decided to go back to a more leisurely league and wind down his career. Anyone who thinks he should have stayed at OT is truly and genuinely bonkers.
 
Watch his docu. I think the answer to this question is not obvious. I question his mentality. Perhaps Ten Hag would have gotten him in line.
 
He has the talent, so if he was coached properly by ETH in his early age, Pogba would have been sensational. But not the current Pogba though because he has been coached badly. Lazy and not good positionally, which is becoming his habit.
 
JPRouve said:
I'm sure people will but the reality is that objectively Pogba has been to the level of a top midfielder(not the best but still among them) in the PL when fit and the majority of the caf thought so on the days the games were played. The question is how his good games turned into bad ones months after they were actually played, that's an incredible mystery.
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It's because the majority of United fans don't watch anything other than United and a few other PL games, so when we sign a player like Pogba they immediately assume he's going to be Roy fecking Keane with flair. Everyone thought he'd be some box to box monster midfielder (I guess because of his physique?), when he was always much more of a technical/creative 8 that defended "okay" because he was tall.

So the entire time he was here he was slandered when he was shite, and when he played well/fantastic it was "he's too inconsistent, only does this once every 5 games". There's never been a more underappreciated footballer in club history. And I'm not even some huge Pogba fan, I thought it was time for him to go and his injury proneness/baggage with the club got to be too much by the end. But Christ sake, many would probably argue that Scott McTominay has had a better United career because he ran around a bunch and fouled people.

It's just a shame, because he's going to be forever remembered as this villain when his biggest crime was having some shit spells of form, a mouthy agent, and getting haircuts. By all accounts he was beloved in the dressing room, trained hard, and very professional off the pitch. But pull up any Pogba United montage and you're quickly remembered how brilliant he could be for us in a ton of awful sides with normally 0 midfield quality around him barring the early days of Matic.
 
TheReligion said:
I think it’s clear we were chasing De Jong this summer to be our deep lying playmaker and also a player who can drive forward with the ball to create openings in the middle of the pitch.

Whilst Eriksen has settled in to the DLP role very well we currently don’t have a number 6 that can burst forward with the ball, something which I feel is a pretty good quality to have in terms of playing out of a press.

Now we all know Pogba was a physical presence in the midfield, great range of passing, good vision and the ability to drive forward. Essentially what De Jong is (although weaker defensively). What seemed to let him down was the amount of time he often took on the ball and the reluctance to do things first time, along with tactical awareness of risk taking in specific areas of play.

Could Ten Hag have coached these missing pieces in to Pogba given we have already seen some improvements to much lesser talented players in the squad?

Its all speculative of course but you can’t help but wonder given this is our first real hands on manager who is known for improving not only the team but individuals.

Casemiro-Pogba-Eriksen/Bruno would have had a bit of everything on paper.
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I think Pogba would if anything have been an even worse fit for EtH than he was for his predecessors. I don't think you can assume that his shortcomings could be "coached out of him", especially at his age. Nor that he's essentially "what De Jong is" but just weaker defensively. In fact, he is in some respects the opposite of what De Jong is. FDJ does quick, efficient distribution and top notch ball-carrying and brings creativity and all-round situational reading. Safety and efficiency plus creative added value. Pogba has creative added value too, but is downright defective when it comes to safety and efficiency. FDJ is a bread and butter player with some foie gras thrown in, Pogba is, essentially, a luxury player. FDJ makes everyone around him better, Pogba only has a sustainable game if others around him compensate effectively for his weaknesses.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I'm sorry. I find it hard to take anyone seriously who believes such obvious myth. Pogba's first 3 seasons in the EPl were never a struggle. He only started waning once constant injury set in
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He always struggled against the press and was often useless against teams that parked the bus.
 
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