UK Policing

Shocking new footage. Unbelievable they were allowed bail.
 
11101 said:
It's all about what his honestly held belief was at the time after having been attacked, colleagues incapacitated and somebody grabbing his holster.

Don't forget these are not run of the mill police dealing with a Friday night town centre.
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You know that makes it worse not better right?

That a policeman entrusted with a weapon has THAT temperament?
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
If I was on a committee and he tried to argue all of that, I wouldn’t know whether to laugh at him or not.
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People have a misconception that the threshold for use of force is this really high bar and based on what a mutual party would think but that isn’t the case. It’s what the officer believes at the time and how he justifies his actions and with what use of force powers were used. As @11101 said..
“It's all about what his honestly held belief was at the time after having been attacked”.

That is the argument his solicitor will put forward. And then it’ll be up to the panel to decide whether the force used was firstly legal and then proportionate from his point of view.
 
Ludens the Red said:
On a side note, I do find it baffling the family decided to go with such an obnoxious solicitor now knowing what we do about what fully transpired. Heads deffo should have been kept down.
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The family probably doesn't have the money to hire anyone and lawyers of his reputation (from what I've seen in this thread) will either be smelling a payout and offering their services on a pay if you win basis or looking for the publicity the case will bring.
 
hobbers said:
Were both of the female officers armed as well as carrying tasers?

If they were, it's not exactly a great look that a 3 vs 2 situation with armed police could have ended up with 2 guns being taken off the police almost immediately. Lucky one of them gets back up and gets the taser shot off.
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JagUTD said:
Read it as wouldn't bother would've*


In an airport? It absolutely would. You aren't going to let a highly aggressive person loose in such a setting with any sort of weapon. In the US the first contact would have been the police shooting. Questions to follow. But around Europe and beyond, at the point the situation had escalated to such a point the risk level increased from an arrest gone wrong to a potential threat to the public. You're getting shot.

Even in the UK there are examples of a person trying to take a police officers weapon and lethal force being justified at that point. The UK is fairly reserved compared to even our closest neighbours when it comes to firearms so I've no doubt at all that the end restikt would have been worse for the guy elsewhere.
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Where is this idea that guns were taken off the police come from? The police haven't said that happened and I don't see any evidence in the video.

The police in their initial statement said it was a scuffle and that there was a danger the officers could have had their weapons taken, as if to excuse any disproportionate response, but they never said it actually happened.
 
Withnail said:
Where is this idea that guns were taken off the police come from? The police haven't said that happened and I don't see any evidence in the video.

The police in their initial statement said it was a scuffle and that there was a danger the officers could have had their weapons taken, as if to excuse any disproportionate response, but they never said it actually happened.
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They weren't taken off them but the risk of that happening was huge. The fact you have two armed officers dropped almost instantly, there's the potential for the guy who punched them to the ground going for their tasers or guns. Luckily he didnt and went for the male officer instead. Also lucky there was only 2 people fighting, because a third guy in the fight could have prevented the female officer getting back up and using the taser to end the guys aggression.

It's not clear in the video but the male officer might have had one or both of the guys trying to grab his taser or his holster as they were fighting.
 
hobbers said:
They weren't taken off them but the risk of that happening was huge. The fact you have two armed officers dropped almost instantly, there's the potential for the guy who punched them to the ground going for their tasers or guns. Luckily he didnt and went for the male officer instead. Also lucky there was only 2 people fighting, because a third guy in the fight could have prevented the female officer getting back up and using the taser to end the guys aggression.

It's not clear in the video but the male officer might have had one or both of the guys trying to grab his taser or his holster as they were fighting.
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Oh I see I misread your post and missed the "could have had'.

I've just seen a lot of people online claiming they had taken or were trying to take their weapons, of which there is no evidence, that I can see.

Certainly the guy lying prone after being tasered was no longer attempting to do much of anything. But yeah a very volatile situation.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
The family probably doesn't have the money to hire anyone and lawyers of his reputation (from what I've seen in this thread) will either be smelling a payout and offering their services on a pay if you win basis or looking for the publicity the case will bring.
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To be fair you’re entitled to free legal over here. He’d have been better getting that than this absolute chancer.
 
Deciding against posting again. Can’t be bothered.

It’s sad some want to take sides over this when there’s absolutely no winners here.

All of the footage is hard to watch for anyone with empathy.
 
TheReligion said:
Deciding against posting again. Can’t be bothered.

It’s sad some want to take sides over this when there’s absolutely no winners here.

All of the footage is hard to watch for anyone with empathy.
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The ones arrested will deserve everything they get for attacking officers doing their job. The cop who kicked the guy in the head after he was down/tazzered isn't fit to be a gun carrying cop - although it would seem that the kick wasn't quite a premeditated and the original video suggested. Both things can be true at the same time.
 
What happened before they attacked the cops? Sounds like the cops were responding to another incident.
 
van Nistelrooy said:
If you view the seconds prior to the head kick, teal punches the officer from behind and drags him to the ground as he is tasered by another officer. During the fall, teal has his hand on the side of the officer around where his gun is holstered. The officer who has just been assaulted, could easily have interpreted this as an attempt to take his weapon.

Teal is lucky he was tasered, or he could have ended up being shot.
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I mean, you could *maybe*argue he had more reason to shoot him while being assaulted than he did for kicking and stomping him after he was tazed and on the ground. That's how wrong I think that was.
 
This reminds me of a situation involving one of our former neighbours, who was notorious for being escorted home by the police in the early hours of the morning. He was known by name to them, and would frequently wander the nearby streets pished out of his skull. One morning all you could hear outside was "Ok Tam, time to get to bed. Keep walking. That's it, Tam. Sleep it off."

About five minutes later there's two police vans screeching to a halt and chaos on a side road, with a small gathering of people from surrounding houses now huddled around, swearing at a couple of coppers, one rowdy teenager being wrestled to the floor, another getting dragged into another van that had come from the other end of the street. I went out to see what was going on and the drunk guy's front door is open - that's where they were all congregating - and two loud wifeys shouting about one of the officers breaking Tam's nose.

When it died down I found out from one of the other neighbours that an officer had launched himself at Tam after he had told him to "feck off", a kid had watched it unfold, ran to tell his dad, which ultimately resulted in this big hoohah. I thought it was quite impressive that the police had turned up so quickly.

Except that's not all that had happened. Tam had indeed told a copper to "feck off" and a copper had indeed launched himself at Tam, but only after Tam had been escorted to his front door by a female officer, who he suckered punched mid conversation when she turned to talk to her colleague a few feet to the side. The male officer called it in as he was subduing Tam, at which point some kid walked past and heard Tam say "you've broke my nose" (his nose wasn't broken, the female officer's was though).

Things quickly went from 0-to-shitstorm because not all the info was available at the time.

I am IN NO WAY excusing what the officer in the video did. We need standards in our policing. I just thought that the stories are similar in some regards.
 
TheReligion said:
Deciding against posting again. Can’t be bothered.

It’s sad some want to take sides over this when there’s absolutely no winners here.

All of the footage is hard to watch for anyone with empathy.
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I'll be honest mate, I struggle to square this with the overall sentiment on this thread.

There is essentially no argument, especially now, from anyone on here that the two civilians are massive twats. I'm sure there's more context to come from the story but regardless there is no justification to attack armed police officers and you can't possibly think it's going to end well for you.

They will rightly see prison time.

The major source of ongoing disagreement is whether or not it's OK for a police officer to boot someone in the head once they have been essentially subdued. As someone above said, it almost would have been more more understandable if the officer had shot during the altercation itself.

There is rightly no defence for the idiots who punched the officers.
 
Wibble said:
What happened before they attacked the cops? Sounds like the cops were responding to another incident.
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The rumours (not verified as far as I'm aware) are that the mum of the two guys attacking the police was on a flight to the UK and racially abused on the plane.

On landing she then pointed him out to the 2 guys. They confronted him. This confrontation then escalated.

How this then went to these guys punching police officers (if true) I have absolutely no idea.
 
Seems the family have dropped Yakoob, gone with a different lawyer and are trying to take the heat out of the general situation, which I think is the honourable and right thing to do.
 
africanspur said:
The rumours (not verified as far as I'm aware) are that the mum of the two guys attacking the police was on a flight to the UK and racially abused on the plane.

On landing she then pointed him out to the 2 guys. They confronted him. This confrontation then escalated.

How this then went to these guys punching police officers (if true) I have absolutely no idea.
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What a shit show.
 
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