UK Policing

[the hea]

Really have no issue with the cop's behaviour. He had just got punched how many times - 5-10? His judgement was probably totally impaired. Don't viciously assault cops if you don't want to catch some force in response.

This is exactly how I see it too, the police officer had caught a number of punches to the head just seconds before, one of his colleagues had been knocked to the ground. His number 1 priority in this situation is to neutralize the threat. Was his response perfect? No, the kick and stomp could have been avoided in a perfect world but considering the situation he was in it's fully understandable that they happened.

 

[RoadTrip]

I mean chat shit or feck around is much of a muchness really. Don't think that's the part to spilt hairs about.

I think the issue here is there are multiple things which can be true and you (and others on both sides) don't seem abke to acknowledge this.

-Attacking an armed police officer, whatever the circumstances of why they're there in the first place, is an incredibly dumb move. And you can't think you're going to end up in a good position there.

-In the USA, this man would be dead.

-The USA is not a good model for policing.

-The men being arrested committed a crime and I'm sure will end up behind bars. As they should.

-By the time of the head kicking, that men was restrained. That head kick was not a tactic to contain the situation any longer, it was purely to exact revenge.

-The police, especially armed police, should not be in the business of exacting revenge.

The last sentence is a thought experiment to see how far your feck around and find out ethos goes. Is it just a light head kicking? What if that head kicking leads to brain bleeds ( as I have seen)? What if he dies?

This pretty much sums it up well. I would add that I can understand why that cop lost his head after what happened. He’s human at the end of the day. But, as an officer, his job and responsibility is to remain calm. And what he did regardless was inexcusable. And theeefore he rightly should be punished too.

 

[RoadTrip]

This is exactly how I see it too, the police officer had caught a number of punches to the head just seconds before, one of his colleagues had been knocked to the ground. His number 1 priority in this situation is to neutralize the threat. Was his response perfect? No, the kick and stomp could have been avoided in a perfect world but considering the situation he was in it's fully understandable that they happened.

But as an officer, it’s part of his job to control his desire for revenge. Whilst I can UNDERSTAND why he lost his head, it doesn’t make what he did acceptable.

 

[Badunk]

Would be amazing if the bodycam audio had the arresting officer using derogatory language or something. We'd have to rethink our stances again.

Can't wait for the next installment.

 

[the hea]

But as an officer, it’s part of his job to control his desire for revenge. Whilst I can UNDERSTAND why he lost his head, it doesn’t make what he did acceptable.

I don't think it was about revenge. It all happend in such a short space of time that I think he was just acting on instinct in an extremly stressful situation. As I said in my previous post, it wasn't a perfect response but considering the circumstances I think it's a fully understandable one.
If however he did it just to get revenge and that can be proven then of course it changes the situation completely.

 

[SilentWitness]

I don't think it was about revenge. It all happend in such a short space of time that I think he was just acting on instinct in an extremly stressful situation. As I said in my previous post, it wasn't a perfect response but considering the circumstances I think it's a fully understandable one.
If however he did it just to get revenge on that guy and that can be proven then of course it changes the situation completely.

I don't know why you keep peddling this instinct and short space of time thing. He had time to get up and point his taser at the individual and clearly looks down on him immobilised before he kicks and stamps on him. It's purely revenge.

 

[RoadTrip]

I don't think it was about revenge. It all happend in such a short space of time that I think he was just acting on instinct in an extremly stressful situation. As I said in my previous post, it wasn't a perfect response but considering the circumstances I think it's a fully understandable one.
If however he did it just to get revenge and that can be proven then of course it changes the situation completely.

That’s a fair point, but I don’t think it changes what should be the conclusion. Unfortunately, cops have to cope with a higher amount of stress and act in a responsible way. Maybe the lead up is something that needs to be considered in the punishment, but again I reiterate that even if understandable, it isn’t acceptable. Cops are held to a higher standard as they should be.

 

[van Nistelrooy]

But as an officer, it’s part of his job to control his desire for revenge. Whilst I can UNDERSTAND why he lost his head, it doesn’t make what he did acceptable.

If you view the seconds prior to the head kick, teal punches the officer from behind and drags him to the ground as he is tasered by another officer. During the fall, teal has his hand on the side of the officer around where his gun is holstered. The officer who has just been assaulted, could easily have interpreted this as an attempt to take his weapon.

Teal is lucky he was tasered, or he could have ended up being shot.

 

[the hea]

I don't know why you keep peddling this instinct and short space of time thing. He had time to get up and point his taser at the individual and clearly looks down on him immobilised before he kicks and stamps on him. It's purely revenge.

He had just taken 5 or 6 punches to the head, we have no idea in what shape he was and if he was able to fully analyze the situation in the time leading up to the kick.

 

[RoadTrip]

If you view the seconds prior to the head kick, teal punches the officer from behind and drags him to the ground as he is tasered by another officer. During the fall, teal has his hand on the side of the officer around where his gun is holstered. The officer who has just been assaulted, could easily have interpreted this as an attempt to take his weapon.

Teal is lucky he was tasered, or he could have ended up being shot.

All may be true. But at the point the officer kicks his head, he is clearly down.

 

[Wilt]

If you view the seconds prior to the head kick, teal punches the officer from behind and drags him to the ground as he is tasered by another officer. During the fall, teal has his hand on the side of the officer around where his gun is holstered. The officer who has just been assaulted, could easily have interpreted this as an attempt to take his weapon.

Teal is lucky he was tasered, or he could have ended up being shot.

Most likely in any other foreign airport he would have been shot.

 

[Drainy]

So the 'victim' was actually a scumbag after all and assaulted at least three officers, including two women.

The officer should have kicked him harder.

no, it doesn't change the calculus for what is reasonable and justified use of force much, if at all when the person is on the ground and no longer a threat and in fact makes it more likely that the 'motive' for the assault was unjustifed and the officer is incapable of holding that type of job, and should probably spend some cooling off time in the slammer.

Anyone who thinks 'good on the copper' should reflect on why they love 'old school policing' so much.

 

[Wilt]

no, it doesn't change the calculus for what is reasonable and justified use of force much, if at all when the person is on the ground and no longer a threat and in fact makes it more likely that the 'motive' for the assault was unjustifed and the officer is incapable of holding that type of job, and should probably spend some cooling off time in the slammer.

Anyone who thinks 'good on the copper' should reflect on why they love 'old school policing' so much.

I’d lay money the suspended police officer does not go to prison

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I don't think it was about revenge. It all happend in such a short space of time that I think he was just acting on instinct in an extremly stressful situation. As I said in my previous post, it wasn't a perfect response but considering the circumstances I think it's a fully understandable one.
If however he did it just to get revenge and that can be proven then of course it changes the situation completely.

Yeah that’s garbage but let’s play along…

So you’re saying this police officers “instinct” when he’s upset at someone’s behaviour and they’re on the floor… is to stamp on their head then kick them in the face?

Fine, he shouldn’t be in the police then.

 

[Sir Matt]

It's not by any means the same situation but I see some parallels in the response of some people to perhaps one of my most memorable moments as a young doctor, being called to see a schizophrenic patient on the ward.

He was getting amped up, the nurses were awful at verbally de escalating him but it could be done.

The 3rd time I was called, the nurses had also called security. The patient obviously escalated and the security likewise. It was so unnecessary.

I so vividly remember the absolute glee in one of the nurses' eyes and face that security were going to take this patient down. She even said something like yes! Now you'll see.

As I said, the situations are not the same. These guys are fecking idiots, regardless of how the police were acting before. But the glee with which some people are responding to the head kicking....reminds me a lot of that nurse. So odd.

This is a tangent to the thread but relevant to your post.

I'm currently carrying out a research project on police/security involvement with patient's in a hospital setting with a focus on using certain language to avoid escalating already agitated/disruptive patients. The most common feedback we've gotten from officers is about medical staff escalating patients, treating them poorly, or constantly giving them mixed messages.

One patient came in with a gunshot wound in his hand (accidentally self-inflicted, I think) and had been in the emergency department four hours. He was thirsty and became increasingly agitated by medical staff refusing to give him water. Security gets called in because of this and ultimately gives him the water, which calms him down.

Since I'm working with police and security, I'm obviously not working with impartial sources, but it's shocking how callous people in these positions can be. Hopefully we can show it works and then take it to the medical staff.

I would like to know what the police involvement prior to the most recent video was. I doubt they just walked up to him and started arresting him, but crazier things have happened.

 

[Drainy]

I’d lay money the suspended police officer does not go to prison

Probably not but in a just world it would be an aggravating factor which would favour prison

You can't have people going around meting out their own punishments

 

[Salt Bailly]

Can we have a poll to see how many caftards think it's ok to kick a criminal in the head but only if they're irrefutably a nonce?

 

[Bert_]

If someone attacks you and/or anyone else in your vicinity unprovoked, and you attack back and put them on the floor out cold, then no one would bat an eyelid. But if you then kicked and stomped on their head when they're out cold then best you can hope for is a common assault charge. At worst, attempted murder (if you don't kill them). This applies to the police as it does to everyone else. Why should someone be exempt because they wear a uniform?

 

[Drainy]

Can we have a poll to see how many caftards think it's ok to kick a criminal in the head but only if they're irrefutably a nonce?

I suspect that a lot of responses would be meme/ shitpost yeses, but the rational or serious answer is no

 

[11101]

Least surprising post ever.

I know when you disagree with me I'm probably on the right side of public opinion.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

I imagine the new footage will do precisely zero to alter the perspective of either side.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Unless you want to end up with a more militarised, authoritarian police force that will inevitably brutalise less and less deserving people more and more often, you can't have them literally stomping on heads of people tasered and lying flat on the floor just because some morons started a brawl and swung some sloppy arm punches around. That's a level of force that has a decent chance of being lethal. I know you Brits can afford to act like the strongman tough guy with things like this because it's a fairly rare occurrence to see police reacting so violently, and you're not actually likely to be potentially killed/smashed to pulp for any bouts of such ill-considered thuggery, unlike somewhere like usa/russia, but justifying and accepting red-mist responses like this is a a good way to start if you want to get there eventually.

 

[Zen86]

After an onslaught like that, he fully deserves a kick in the head.

 

[Dan_F]

This is a tangent to the thread but relevant to your post.

I'm currently carrying out a research project on police/security involvement with patient's in a hospital setting with a focus on using certain language to avoid escalating already agitated/disruptive patients. The most common feedback we've gotten from officers is about medical staff escalating patients, treating them poorly, or constantly giving them mixed messages.

One patient came in with a gunshot wound in his hand (accidentally self-inflicted, I think) and had been in the emergency department four hours. He was thirsty and became increasingly agitated by medical staff refusing to give him water. Security gets called in because of this and ultimately gives him the water, which calms him down.

Since I'm working with police and security, I'm obviously not working with impartial sources, but it's shocking how callous people in these positions can be. Hopefully we can show it works and then take it to the medical staff.

I would like to know what the police involvement prior to the most recent video was. I doubt they just walked up to him and started arresting him, but crazier things have happened.

I asked the same thing last night and got no response, so I’m assume we don’t know what the original arrest attempt was for.

Whilst attacking police officers is hardly ever justifiable, there’s clearly situations that can lead to people feeling like they need to do so. I’m not saying that’s the case here but it would help with context.

 

[whitbyviking]

Cafe is a weird place, having a family friend lose his life due to being on the end of one punch. I'd want the scum bag of a man, who is punching a female officer in the face prosecuted as harshly as possible and I'd also like to see the police officer who kicked and stamped on someone's head prosecuted harshly too.

This. Neither side should be absolved of blame for the incident because of circumstances. They both committed illegal acts and punished as such.

 

[sizzling sausages]

How the feck are so many of you justifying kicking someone in the head and then stamping on them while they're lying on the ground?

 

[11101]

How the feck are so many of you justifying kicking someone in the head and then stamping on them while they're lying on the ground?

Have you seen the full video? 5 seconds before the guy is punching the officer and trying to avoid restraint, having already injured three and attempted to grab a weapon. He then moves to get back up despite being tasered. Consider what happens if he does get up and manages to get hold of one of their guns.

It's all about what his honestly held belief was at the time after having been attacked, colleagues incapacitated and somebody grabbing his holster.

Don't forget these are not run of the mill police dealing with a Friday night town centre.

 

[Rado_N]

I know when you disagree with me I'm probably on the right side of public opinion.

I guess given that you align with the same section of the public as Lee Anderson that makes total sense.

 

[Pexbo]

I guess given that you align with the same section of the public as Lee Anderson that makes total sense.

Someone grab the Aloe Vera!

 

[sizzling sausages]

Have you seen the full video? 5 seconds before the guy is punching the officer and trying to avoid restraint, having already injured three and attempted to grab a weapon. He then moves to get back up despite being tasered. Consider what happens if he does get up and manages to get hold of one of their guns.

It's all about what his honestly held belief was at the time after having been attacked, colleagues incapacitated and somebody grabbing his holster.

Don't forget these are not run of the mill police dealing with a Friday night town centre.

They too need locking up:

The guy who kicks him has a few seconds to process the scene before he goes for the kick. It's not a split second decision. If you have that time to process the situation and still decide to kick and stomp on a person who's on the floor then you shouldn't be a police officer.

Goes without saying that the 2 guys deserve severe punishment for fighting with the officers.

 

[Drainy]

The guy who kicks him has a few seconds to process the scene before he goes for the kick. It's not a split second decision. If you have that time to process the situation and still decide to kick and stomp on a person who's on the floor then you shouldn't be a police officer.

Goes without saying that the 2 guys deserve severe punishment for fighting with the officers.

Yes but he looks up at him, looks up! Clearly a threat!

 

[Lu Tze]

The guy who kicks him has a few seconds to process the scene before he goes for the kick. It's not a split second decision. If you have that time to process the situation and still decide to kick and stomp on a person who's on the floor then you shouldn't be a police officer.

Goes without saying that the 2 guys deserve severe punishment for fighting with the officers.

Ah, a few seconds after getting hit in the head 5-10 times, that's plenty of time to arrive at perfectly rational, calculated decisions on use of force.

 

[NotThatSoph]

Ah, a few seconds after getting hit in the head 5-10 times, that's plenty of time to arrive at perfectly rational, calculated decisions on use of force.

Most violent crimes aren't done by perpetrators in a perfectly rational state of mind. This cop was probably feeling all kinds of things when he kicked a prone defenseless person in the head, just like almost all other headkickers throughout history.

 

[Oldyella]

Lucky they are alive tbh. Kick in the head, could have been far worse.

 

[2mufc0]

I would like to know what the police involvement prior to the most recent video was. I doubt they just walked up to him and started arresting him, but crazier things have happened.

Well according to social media the mother was racially abused and the 2 men got into a scuffle, so the police came to arrest them.

I've been thinking why would they react and resist like they did. I replayed the cctv footage a number of times as things happened so fast and this what I think happened :

1. Police officers rush up to blue shirt with his back turned, there doesn't appear to be any introduction or dialogue explaining the arrest before making the arrest. Blue has his back turned and clearly isn't a threat so not sure why the officer went in like this.
2. Officer grabs blue shirt from behind who appears to be shocked and turns around like wtf is going on.
3. Officer violently grabs blue shirt by the neck forcing his head down.
4. Black shirt sees this and pushes the officer off blue shirt
5.officer reacts to black shirt by throwing the first punch. Then a brawl breaks out.
6. Officer pulls out tazer and black shirt realises the crazy situation and de-escalates by sitting down and putting his hands up.
7. Blue shirt carries on with his rampage and gets subdued by the taser.
8. Officer comes in and boots blue shirt in the head and follows up with a stomp

It goes without saying you shouldn't be swinging at the police but I don't think the officers went about the job the best way. It appears they went in looking to rough up while making the arrest. I do think their lawyer will argue mitigating circumstances, as the officers grabbed him from behind without introduction and the rough handling which initiated it all. All 3 should be punished appropriately.

 

[arnie_ni]

Cafe is a weird place, having a family friend lose his life due to being on the end of one punch. I'd want the scum bag of a man, who is punching a female officer in the face prosecuted as harshly as possible and I'd also like to see the police officer who kicked and stamped on someone's head prosecuted harshly too.

This is it here. They are both in the wrong and need punished.

 

[Salt Bailly]

The cop graduated from the Derek Vinyard School of De-escalation.

 

[Ludens the Red]

think the video changes things significantly, probs more than people realise in terms of job status. My personal opinion is still that it was a case of red mist and the threat was neutralised and so the force is excessive.

But that officer in that moment can make the case that he’s in an uncontrolled high risk environment with multiple people attacking him and his colleagues. A taser doesn’t have a 100% success rate, the subject isn’t actually in handcuffs and so he could argue that in that split second he thought the subject would get up (continue assault, possibly take his gun etc) and so he used the maximum force available to keep him down.

On a side note, I do find it baffling the family decided to go with such an obnoxious solicitor now knowing what we do about what fully transpired. Heads deffo should have been kept down.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

But that officer in that moment can make the case that he’s in an uncontrolled high risk environment with multiple people attacking him and his colleagues. A taser doesn’t have a 100% success rate, the subject isn’t actually in handcuffs and so he could argue that in that split second he thought the subject would get up (continue assault, possibly take his gun etc) and so he used the maximum force available to keep him down.

If I was on a committee and he tried to argue all of that, I wouldn’t know whether to laugh at him or not.

 

[buchansleftleg]

He's trusted with a weapon that could end someone's life. One day he could find himself in a more volatile situation and have to make a life or death call in a split second. He's demonstrated he can't do that.

So at the very least he should be taken off firearms duties. And he will be very lucky if thats all that happens to him.

Totally agree with this. If this was just a normal cop losing his rag after being hit it would be a serious disciplinary incident but they would have some mitigation.

If you're carrying round an assualt rifle you need to be trusted to act calmly in the most stressful of situations.

He'll be lucky to be bumped down to traffic cop after this epsiode at best.