UK General Election 2015 | Conservatives win with an overall majority

How did you vote in the 2015 General Election?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 67 20.0%

  • Labour

    Votes: 152 45.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 15 4.5%

  • Green

    Votes: 23 6.9%

  • SNP

    Votes: 9 2.7%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 11 3.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.3%

  • Did not vote

    Votes: 43 12.8%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 1 0.3%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 4 1.2%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 9 2.7%
  • Total voters
    335
  • Poll closed .
Tory Manifesto Preview

David Cameron is expected to announce that people earning the minimum wage will not pay income tax under a Tory government.
 
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Tory Manifesto Preview

David Cameron is expected to announce that people earning the minimum wage will not pay INCOME tax under a Tory government.
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I've inserted a word for you above.

Indirect taxes are what cost low income families, not income tax.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Though a relevant correction, and thanks for that btw, i think you're being a bit mean-spirited to disregard the policy out of hand.
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I'm not dismissing it necessarily, but I think there is probably a much better way to spend this money rather than further rises in the income tax threshold. Remember, the headline is that 'it takes minimum wage jobs out of income tax' but the reality is that the VAST majority of the financial benefit of raising the income tax threshold is for middle-income workers (and potentially high earners as well if they don't lower the higher rate tax threshold accordingly)... the poor don't actually save much from this as they barely pay any income tax already (none if they earn less than £10k) whereas middle-earners take most of the tax saving.

Sorry, it's late and I'm tired, but I hope that's relatively coherent. It's smoke and mirrors.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
I'm not dismissing it necessarily, but I think there is probably a much better way to spend this money rather than further rises in the income tax threshold. Remember, the headline is that 'it takes minimum wage jobs out of income tax' but the reality is that the VAST majority of the financial benefit of raising the income tax threshold is for middle-income workers... the poor don't actually save much from this as they barely pay any income tax already (none if they earn less than £10k) whereas middle-earners take most of the tax saving.

Sorry, it's late and I'm tired, but I hope that's relatively coherent. It's smoke and mirrors.
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Understood, and it was perfectly coherent.

Reading further down the Telegraph's article, the policy does have the merit of being sustainably structured.

Under a Conservative government the minimum wage will be linked to the personal allowance, which the Tories want to increase to £12,500 by the end of the next Parliament.

It means that if the minimum wage increases faster than expected, workers will always be exempt from paying income tax.
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Understood, and it was perfectly coherent.

Reading further down the Telegraph's article, the policy does have the merit of being sustainably structured.
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Any word on whether they will lower the higher rate tax band to compensate? If not then this is just another bung for middle and high earners disguised as helping the poor. Clever Tory policy if that's the case.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Tory Manifesto Preview

David Cameron is expected to announce that people earning the minimum wage will not pay income tax under a Tory government.
Click to expand...

The only way they can achieve that is if they increase the personal allowance beyond the 17-18 expected limit of £11k and freeze the national minimum wage at £6.50 otherwise it does not work.

Freezing national minimum wage is in no way helpful to those who are on minimum wage.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
I'm not dismissing it necessarily, but I think there is probably a much better way to spend this money rather than further rises in the income tax threshold. Remember, the headline is that 'it takes minimum wage jobs out of income tax' but the reality is that the VAST majority of the financial benefit of raising the income tax threshold is for middle-income workers (and potentially high earners as well if they don't lower the higher rate tax threshold accordingly)... the poor don't actually save much from this as they barely pay any income tax already (none if they earn less than £10k) whereas middle-earners take most of the tax saving.

Sorry, it's late and I'm tired, but I hope that's relatively coherent. It's smoke and mirrors.
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Isn't this also quite a minor policy alteration? They'd already pledged to raise the threshold (and alter a higher band as well), it was talked about a lot at the time (conference maybe?) as it was costed at a fair few billion all told, this seems to be just locking that into future inflation. They've reduced tax credits and raised VAT at the same time so the "we've taken the lowest paid out of tax entirely" line that's been trotted out by Lib Dem and Tory alike is misleading to say the least.

We definitely seem to be in the reassurance stage of the campaign, Labour that they won't be profligate and the Tories that they won't be evil. Both will have a hard time convincing the unconvinced of either. We'll see if the Tories can get the extra 5 points they need in these last few weeks.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Tory Manifesto Preview

David Cameron is expected to announce that people earning the minimum wage will not pay income tax under a Tory government.
Click to expand...

This would be the minimum wage that the Tories were vehemently opposed to in the first place, warning that it would result in mass unemployment and a plummeting economy deprived of it's workforce.

Thing is, with no proof whatsoever, you just know the Tories would abolish the minimum wage tomorrow if they could get away with it.
 
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After a vastly improved TV debate i've been less than inspired by the Greens' manifesto launch. It's all rather vague, the matter of costing has reared its head without further examination of their proposals. How do they intend to fund the renationalisation of the rail network?


712 said:
This would be the minimum wage that the Tories were vehemently opposed to in the first place, warning that it would result in mass unemployment and a plummeting economy deprived of it's workforce.

Thing is, with no proof whatsoever, you just know the Tories would abolish the minimum wage tomorrow if they could get away with it.
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The passage of time does lead to some change you know, mindsets alter or adapt. Either way, the minimum wage has become part of the political furniture, indeed the Living Wage is the new target.

Given free rein what might other parties have attempted in the past. Do Labour still remain so inherently authoritarian that they would again push for 90 day pre-charge detention?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
After a vastly improved TV debate i've been less than inspired by the Greens' manifesto launch. It's all rather vague, the matter of costing has reared its head without further examination of their proposals. How do they intend to fund the renationalisation of the rail network?




The passage of time does lead to some change you know, mindsets alter or adapt. Either way, the minimum wage has become part of the political furniture, indeed the Living Wage is the new target.

Given free rein what might other parties have attempted in the past. Do Labour still remain so inherently authoritarian that they would again push for 90 day pre-charge detention?
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Tories promises about minimum wage, taxes and living wage are contradictory with one another. It is not possible for them to be achieved and I would consider them plain lies.
 
Despite the fact that they consistently feck everything up time after time, people still vote for Labour in their droves, not only that, they are going to have to snuggle up the SNP to form a government, a party that doesn't even want to be part of the UK.

Vote for those useless cnuts if you want, you'll get what you deserve. Gawd help us...
 
Colin129 said:
Despite the fact that they consistently feck everything up time after time, people still vote for Labour in their droves, not only that, they are going to have to snuggle up the SNP to form a government, a party that doesn't even want to be part of the UK.

Vote for those useless cnuts if you want, you'll get what you deserve. Gawd help us...
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Ahem... please elaborate on exactly what they fecked up so we can discuss?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
That is a topic of such overwhelming breadth, it would necessitate its own thread.
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He seemed to know exactly what he was talking about but I doubt he has anything other than preconceived notions instilled by the Conservative propaganda to back it up.

A question for all of you Conservatives out there how is it that after 5 years of amazing Conservative leadership, progress and economical growth you are staring defeat in the face and the support your received at the last elections has actually shrunk by quite a bit? Is it maybe because what you actually spout is in actual fact none other than glitter sprinkled bullshit?
 
LitterBug said:
He seemed to know exactly what he was talking about but I doubt he has anything other than preconceived notions instilled by the Conservative propaganda to back it up.

A question for all of you Conservatives out there how is it that after 5 years of amazing Conservative leadership, progress and economical growth you are staring defeat in the face and the support your received at the last elections has actually shrunk by quite a bit? Is it maybe because what you actually spout is in actual fact none other than glitter sprinkled bullshit?
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Replace Conservative for Labour in that and the length of government and it would read just the same. It's always the same though, look through history, Labour feck everything up and the Torys come along & sort everything out, but everyone hates them for it.
 
And it's always the same folks who get 'sorted out', though, isn't it?
 
Adrian Chiles is presenting on Fivelive at the minute, and he's not any better at the political build-up than the football.
 
Colin129 said:
Replace Conservative for Labour in that and the length of government and it would read just the same. It's always the same though, look through history, Labour feck everything up and the Torys come along & sort everything out, but everyone hates them for it.
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The modern paradigm (post war) is that Labour overspend to correct the Tories underspend, and the Tories underspend to correct Labour's overspend. I kind of wish we might have someone who got the right balance in the first place, but I guess equilibrium is better than nothing.
 
The policy proposals are obviously open to debate, however this has certainly been Cameron's best public appearance of the campaign so far.
 
Reading the Labour manifesto and seeing Tony Blair being wheeled out again has pretty much made me u-turn on my decision to vote for them. Back to undecided territory again.
 
Colin129 said:
Replace Conservative for Labour in that and the length of government and it would read just the same. It's always the same though, look through history, Labour feck everything up and the Torys come along & sort everything out, but everyone hates them for it.
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You've still not answered any of my posts. Labour lead the country for 13 years prior to the Conservatives and they had a comfortable majority after very election while the Conservatives have not been a majority for 18 years.

What exactly did Conservatives set right? Please don't say the economy that Labour wrecked otherwise you'd be a bigger laughing stock than I already think you are.
 
LitterBug said:
You've still not answered any of my posts. Labour lead the country for 13 years prior to the Conservatives and they had a comfortable majority after very election while the Conservatives have not been a majority for 18 years.

What exactly did Conservatives set right? Please don't say the economy that Labour wrecked otherwise you'd be a bigger laughing stock than I already think you are.
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I honestly couldn't be bothered, I'm not going to change your mind & you definitely aren't going to change mind. Enjoy your shitty Labour government as they feck the country over yet again.
 
Colin129 said:
I honestly couldn't be bothered, I'm not going to change your mind & you definitely aren't going to change mind. Enjoy your shitty Labour government as they feck the country over yet again.
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Well considering the stats people are worse off now than they were in 2010 or even 2008-2009 which was the height of the global recession so this would suggest that its the other way around. I don't want to change your mind, I want you to put up or shut up on the rubbish that you spout.

The funniest thing so far has been Cameron pretty much telling Paxman that more people have been using food banks because of the Conservative PR machine working hard to tell people they're available :lol:
 
Colin129 said:
I honestly couldn't be bothered, I'm not going to change your mind & you definitely aren't going to change mind. Enjoy your shitty Labour government as they feck the country over yet again.
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Sounds like a very sad story, maybe I'll tell my kids that one in the future. Poor Torys, always doing whatever it takes to right the ship and helping everyone out each time, yet it's weird because huge amounts of people benefiting from this wonderful government who have saved the country, still seem to think they are totally shit, despite having enjoyed their brief resurgence after so many years of being under labour terror.
 
"We let rich employers pay such a shit wage that employees don't even reach the tax threshold. That's if they even pay a wage, which fewer of them do since we also let them exploit benefit claimants for free labour"
 
Hectic said:
Sounds like a very sad story, maybe I'll tell my kids that one in the future. Poor Tories, always doing whatever it takes to right the ship and helping everyone out each time, yet it's weird because huge amounts of people benefiting from this wonderful government who have saved the country, still seem to think they are totally shit, despite having enjoyed their brief resurgence after so many years of being under labour terror.
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Well it's quite easy to give the impression that everything is rosy if you spend like there is no tomorrow, i.e. bribe the electorate in to thinking that funds are unlimited. All those years of fat that the previous Labour government enjoyed, they never put a single penny aside for a rainy day, oh yes, because it was supposed to be end of boom & bust, wasn't it? That didn't turn out too well then did it? So they left a bare cupboard, a mess for someone else to sort out, like they always do.

@bishblaize made a decent point in his post though, Labour overspend and drop the country in the shit, then the Tories are forced to underspend to stop the country going over the precipice, which makes them unpopular because everyone wants something for nothing.
 
@LitterBug

I voted Tory in 2010 and i could probably name a dozen things i've objected to without much difficulty, surely over a thirteen year period of government you are able to offer a like sum? Take one of the areas where Tory and Lib Dem found common ground, opposition to Labour's infringements of civil liberties.

Though i myself am struggling to support the Conservatives this on this occasion, i waited a decade to be rid of Labour and see little in their policies to suggest that they are deserving of a return to office.
 
There is so little logic behind selling off an increased amount of social housing. Clever ploy though as it targets primarily Labour areas.

I just wish one bloody party had the balls to do something about the housing crisis but they're all too scared to deter the asset inflation.
 
Colin129 said:
@bishblaize made a decent point in his post though, Labour overspend and drop the country in the shit, then the Tories are forced to underspend to stop the country going over the precipice, which makes them unpopular because everyone wants something for nothing.
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Not quite the point I was making. Both are ideologically driven and both are too far in their given direction. Labour may overspend, but the Tories starve the infrastructure the country relies on. When Labour won in 1997 the state of schools, the NHS & transport for example were a disgrace. I see that as leaving the country in the shit every bit as much.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I voted Tory in 2010 and i could probably name a dozen things i've objected to without much difficulty, surely over a thirteen year period of government you are able to offer a like sum? Take one of the areas where Tory and Lib Dem found common ground, opposition to Labour's infringements of civil liberties.

Though i myself am struggling to support the Conservatives this on this occasion, i waited a decade to be rid of Labour and see little in their policies to suggest that they are deserving of a return to office.
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Is this the same coalition that has propelled the UK into the group of countries with some of the highest levels of internet censorship?
 
Colin129 said:
Well it's quite easy to give the impression that everything is rosy if you spend like there is no tomorrow, i.e. bribe the electorate in to thinking that funds are unlimited. All those years of fat that the previous Labour government enjoyed, they never put a single penny aside for a rainy day, oh yes, because it was supposed to be end of boom & bust, wasn't it? That didn't turn out too well then did it? So they left a bare cupboard, a mess for someone else to sort out, like they always do.

@bishblaize made a decent point in his post though, Labour overspend and drop the country in the shit, then the Tories are forced to underspend to stop the country going over the precipice, which makes them unpopular because everyone wants something for nothing.
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The Tories supported Labour's spending commitments (by promising to match them if they were in power) from 1997 to 2008.
 
Further privatisation of the social housing stock strikes me as a very bad idea - it's a big part of the reason the housing market in this country is in the mess it is!

"Private landlords have bought up half of the former council homes in some of London's poorest boroughs by exploiting Margaret Thatcher's celebrated right-to-buy scheme, an analysis reveals.

Tower Hamlets, where four in 10 children live in poverty, has the highest proportion of homes that were sold through right-to-buy but are now believed to be privately let, at 50%. In Barking and Dagenham, home to some of the poorest London wards, 41% of homes sold through right-to-buy are now privately let; and the figure is 49% in Enfield, where a recent report suggested almost one in three children live in poverty."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/12/right-to-buy-housing-scandal

And guess who pays most of those private rents... the taxpayer, through housing benefit. It's more smoke and more mirrors.
 
rednev said:
Is this the same coalition that has propelled the UK into the group of countries with some of the highest levels of internet censorship?
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The restrictions on kink which were brought in last year are a complete nonsense, said as much at the time.

Alternatively, Labour attempted to introduce both ID Cards (with justifications that changed by the week) and 90 day pre-charge detention.
 
rednev said:
The Tories supported Labour's spending commitments (by promising to match them if they were in power) from 1997 to 2008.
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And of course massive deregulation of the market whenever possible which turned out well.

Neither party are economically literate as far as I'm concerned, the rhetoric is nonsense it just so happens the economic cycles have led to a certain narrative. If they are they both give a bloody good impression dumbing it down to a tabloid reading level
 
bishblaize said:
Not quite the point I was making. Both are ideologically driven and both are too far in their given direction. Labour may overspend, but the Tories starve the infrastructure the country relies on. When Labour won in 1997 the state of schools, the NHS & transport for example were a disgrace. I see that as leaving the country in the shit every bit as much.
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Do you seriously claim that the Labour government left those 3 areas in good order? They spent fortunes on the NHS increasing salaries, which might sound like a good idea when it's you getting the money, but the basic service remained shite, the staff remain totally demotivated. Transport is still shite, really really shite. Schools? seriously.

Lets face it, government after the government, on both sides, have been unable to properly address these 3 important issues, but don't tell me that Labour have made any better fist of it than the Tories, because I'm not having it.
 
Colin129 said:
Well it's quite easy to give the impression that everything is rosy if you spend like there is no tomorrow, i.e. bribe the electorate in to thinking that funds are unlimited. All those years of fat that the previous Labour government enjoyed, they never put a single penny aside for a rainy day, oh yes, because it was supposed to be end of boom & bust, wasn't it? That didn't turn out too well then did it? So they left a bare cupboard, a mess for someone else to sort out, like they always do.
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This just shows exactly how much you know.

Spending has actually increased to higher level than it ever was under Labour. The Conservatives have spent more but why have services suffered? Its because spending has gone towards their bureaucratic red tape policies, and tycoon trust funds.

The national debt has almost doubled in 5 years of Conservative government, and almost tripled from the time of the 2008 recession meaning that if we have another global recession the country would be in three times the trouble it was when Labour were hit with it back in 2008. How does getting into three times more debt translate to saving money for a rainy day? Do you know that our GDP is much much lower than it was in 2008-2009 when the recession hit and completely collapsed it? That the only boast Conservatives actually make about the economy is about their estimation of national debt as a percentage of the GDP being lower than when they took power in 2010, basing it on skewed data coming off a global recession? Do you know that the government debt as a percentage of the GDP was around 40% before the recession and its now at around 90%?

But of course you don't expect Cons to know any of this. They've got blame Labour for everything hard-wired into the part of their brains responsible for logical thinking.
 
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