UK General Election 2015 | Conservatives win with an overall majority

[Alex99]

Gove in charge of human rights. Jesus wept.

 

[Sweet Square]

But that's the only evidence we have for what they are like.

The majority of their commons MPs are from the Blair years, their front bench consisted of such premium sorry prominent new labour cnuts as Ed Balls, Eyvette Cooper, ******* harman, Andy Burnham etc.

We couldn't really think they were going to be any different.

Rather like the Tory party with the the defeated major era MPs, labour need to dump them and bring some less abhorrent characters in to replace them.

Honestly I don't know. I agree that this Labour Party still has it's fair share of cnuts but it's clearly different to the Blair years of Labour(Well the late years anyway). Milband was a lefty(Always thought he had too rein his 'leftness' in) and the party line/vision was something you would describe as left(The fact Milband didn't getting into bed with Murdoch was something that would of never happened with the Blairights).

Also you have to factor in that this Labour party was never going to get a full majority government. So there would of been another party(Most likely a another left party) to water down the extreame elements in Labour. Still even with that said it would of still be a gamble to vote on this Labour Party but I think a gamble worth taking when the alternative was(and now is) a Tory Government.

On your last point I agree completely Labour needed to and still needs to get rid of abhorrent characters(Although the Blairights might have a stronger voice now after the result, which is a real worry). Sadly I think 5 years was too short of time to get rid of 'them'.

Plus I think it's clear now that England(Well the voters at least) don't want a sort Left government at the moment. Which to me was the biggest disappointment.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I don't understand why Labour would think their way forward is the correct one electorally speaking. Despite what the Mail and Sun were saying, Miliband's Labour vision was fundementally just Tory-lite, with the added bonuses of repealing unpopular Tory policies from the last parliament. They still wanted substantial cuts, just less quickly and offset slightly by taxes on the rich. Miliband's vision wasn't enough of an alternative to the coalition to keep Scotland on board or to stop disaffected Labour supporters from voting UKIP out of a desperate wish to change the status quo. Why would those who voted Tory this time round vote out a centre-right Tory government to vote in a centre-right Labour government?

I'd like to see Labour come out with a clean break from the Blairite faction in the party and a real alternative vision. I think that campaign would gather enough vote off the Greens (the go-to party of the left), the SNP and UKIP to win, or come very close.

 

[711]

@noodlehair

Can I just say that post is very well informed and interesting.

I would like to provide a counter argument based on working in the private sector. I 100% am a humanist and extol the virtues of looking after vulnerable members of our society and the welfare state.

The simple fact is that the money has to come from somewhere. To create an effective form of social capitalism the key is equilibrium.

The world economy is global and companies are transient. For the UK this is more true than for anywhere, with our lack of primary industry and our heavy reliance on services sector for jobs.

I manage a manufacturing site for a large overseas company. I directly employee 40plus people from working class and middle class backgrounds who are paid well and provide for their families as a result.

I can tell you now that my company would close my plant at the very moment I would start to make losses. They have no principled ties to the UK. This is true for the 1000+ employees in the UK who work in various manufacturing sites in my organisation.

We manufacture packaging. We deal business to business. We need a strong economy to keep our customers alive. We then generate income and employee people. These people pay tax and we pay tax and this funds the welfare state and public sector.

If you increase public sector spending by taxing businesses too heavily you would run the risk of destroying small business. Which in turn would cause a business like mine to lose customers. Which would mean we leave and more people are out of work.

There needs to be balance. My company breathed a collective sigh of relief at the election result, because we need a stable economy to continues to operate and therefore pump millions into peoples pockets, and into the tax system.

Fascinating post. I tend to the left of politics yet I believe the left will never succeed in our world until it can demonstrate it will support the wealthmakers again. I'm not sure how you reconcile a stable economy with a European referendum though.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Honestly I don't know. I agree that this Labour Party still has it's fair share of cnuts but it's clearly different to the Blair years of Labour(Well the late years anyway). Milband was a lefty(Always thought he had too rein his 'leftness' in) and the party line/vision was something you would describe as left(The fact Milband didn't getting into bed with Murdoch was something that would of never happened with the Blairights).

Also you have to factor in that this Labour party was never going to get a full majority government. So there would of been another party(Most likely a another left party) to water down the extreame elements in Labour. Still even with that said it would of still be a gamble to vote on this Labour Party but I think a gamble worth taking when the alternative was(and now is) a Tory Government.

On your last point I agree completely Labour needed to and still needs to get rid of abhorrent characters(Although the Blairights might have a stronger voice now after the result, which is a real worry). Sadly I think 5 years was too short of time to get rid of 'them'.

Plus I think it's clear now that England(Well the voters at least) don't want a sort Left government at the moment. Which to me was the biggest disappointment.

Regarding your last point, they never have voted in a left wing government, at least not in my lifetime. Labour won't get back in without occupying the centre (preferably without the extreme cynicism of the Blair years).

 

[Mozza]

Fascinating post. I tend to the left of politics yet I believe the left will never succeed in our world until it can demonstrate it will support the wealthmakers again. I'm not sure how you reconcile a stable economy with a European referendum though.

The 'wealth makers' have doubled there wealth in the last 10 years, just how much more help do they need?

 

[Shamwow]

Somehow the rich have convinced us that we owe them even more money.

 

[Cheesy]

I don't understand why Labour would think their way forward is the correct one electorally speaking. Despite what the Mail and Sun were saying, Miliband's Labour vision was fundementally just Tory-lite, with the added bonuses of repealing unpopular Tory policies from the last parliament. They still wanted substantial cuts, just less quickly and offset slightly by taxes on the rich. Miliband's vision wasn't enough of an alternative to the coalition to keep Scotland on board or to stop disaffected Labour supporters from voting UKIP out of a desperate wish to change the status quo. Why would those who voted Tory this time round vote out a centre-right Tory government to vote in a centre-right Labour government?

I'd like to see Labour come out with a clean break from the Blairite faction in the party and a real alternative vision. I think that campaign would gather enough vote off the Greens (the go-to party of the left), the SNP and UKIP to win, or come very close.

I don't think Miliband's own campaign was responsible for what happened up here - if you think their British campaign was poor, their Scottish one was genuinely abysmal, with the referendum having had an impact too.

I agree that Labour should be looking to move to the proper left-wing as a party, but honestly, Miliband was probably as left-wing as they were going to get. Tory centre-right voters going for Labour may sound daft, but it's effectively what won Blair a few elections.

I think that if you're really, properly left-wing, the Greens are probably going to the best option. A large number of votes will force them to create a more economically viable plan next time and become more serious as a party since they'd face scrutiny. The chances of Labour going any further left than they currently were seems very unlikely.

 

[711]

The 'wealth makers' have doubled there wealth in the last 10 years, just how much more help do they need?

Not their personal wealth, rather their employees wealth, their suppliers and contractors wealth, and the country's wealth from the taxes all those people pay.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I don't think Miliband's own campaign was responsible for what happened up here - if you think their British campaign was poor, their Scottish one was genuinely abysmal, with the referendum having had an impact too.

I agree that Labour should be looking to move to the proper left-wing as a party, but honestly, Miliband was probably as left-wing as they were going to get. Tory centre-right voters going for Labour may sound daft, but it's effectively what won Blair a few elections.

I think that if you're really, properly left-wing, the Greens are probably going to the best option. A large number of votes will force them to create a more economically viable plan next time and become more serious as a party since they'd face scrutiny. The chances of Labour going any further left than they currently were seems very unlikely.

Yeah I think Scottish Labour's conduct during the independence referendum and the election campaign also did damage, but the 'Red Tories Out' badges were first printed way before that. Ultimately I think the seeds for their wipeout were sown with the shift to the right during the Blair/Brown years. The SNP provided a feasible alternative when it became clear that Miliband's vision for this election wasn't anywhere near enough of a departure from the coalition as they wanted.

On your other points, I do agree its unlikely that Labour will shift further left, I just think it'd be far more electorally viable than trying to copy Blair. Half of his appeal was sheer personality, combined with the Tories having some awful leaders and generally being an absolute fecking shambles.

 

[Sweet Square]

Regarding your last point, they never have voted in a left wing government, at least not in my lifetime. Labour won't get back in without occupying the centre (preferably without the extreme cynicism of the Blair years).

It's been the same since I've been living here as well(15 years). I think the reason to why I found the this election so disappointing was that it seemed the last few years leading up to this election there seemed to lots more talk of left ideas and hints that people welcomed these's ideas. But clearly when push comes to shove people stay safe(If you can called it that)

Yeah I think Scottish Labour's conduct during the independence referendum and the election campaign also did damage, but the 'Red Tories Out' badges were first printed way before that. Ultimately I think the seeds for their wipeout were sown with the shift to the right during the Blair/Brown years. The SNP provided a feasible alternative when it became clear that Miliband's vision for this election wasn't anywhere near enough of a departure from the coalition as they wanted.

On your other points, I do agree its unlikely that Labour will shift further left, I just think it'd be far more electorally viable than trying to copy Blair. Half of his appeal was sheer personality, combined with the Tories having some awful leaders and generally being an absolute fecking shambles.

Really I just can't see it myself. Maybe for people under 35 but anyone older the left seems to be too big of a risk.

 

[Ubik]

Yeah I think Scottish Labour's conduct during the independence referendum and the election campaign also did damage, but the 'Red Tories Out' badges were first printed way before that. Ultimately I think the seeds for their wipeout were sown with the shift to the right during the Blair/Brown years. The SNP provided a feasible alternative when it became clear that Miliband's vision for this election wasn't anywhere near enough of a departure from the coalition as they wanted.

On your other points, I do agree its unlikely that Labour will shift further left, I just think it'd be far more electorally viable than trying to copy Blair. Half of his appeal was sheer personality, combined with the Tories having some awful leaders and generally being an absolute fecking shambles.

When you look at what you can gain at the moment by shifting left, there are perhaps the 8 Lib Dem seats (and this is probably the worst they'll do for a while) and the 40 seats lost in Scotland to the SNP. Labour are currently 100 seats behind the Tories, and I don't think people voted Tory due to Labour not being left wing enough. There were some truly awful results for Labour outside the north-east and London, even Wales saw swings against them rather than towards. North Warwickshire, Labour's number 1 target that they lost by 54 votes in 2010, this time round saw a Tory majority of nearly 3000. Hastings and Rye was a thought of as a gimme but saw another swing against them. They were interviewing people in Nuneaton yesterday that were from multiple-generation mining families that felt they had to vote Tory. All around England, there was a similar story with either very small movement towards or sometimes quite large swings against. Ed was unpopular but so was Brown, and that was just after a massive recession. I'm to the left of Labour personally, but it seems crystal clear to my eyes that the country as a whole is not.

 

[sun_tzu]

Yeah I think Scottish Labour's conduct during the independence referendum and the election campaign also did damage, but the 'Red Tories Out' badges were first printed way before that. Ultimately I think the seeds for their wipeout were sown with the shift to the right during the Blair/Brown years. The SNP provided a feasible alternative when it became clear that Miliband's vision for this election wasn't anywhere near enough of a departure from the coalition as they wanted.

On your other points, I do agree its unlikely that Labour will shift further left, I just think it'd be far more electorally viable than trying to copy Blair. Half of his appeal was sheer personality, combined with the Tories having some awful leaders and generally being an absolute fecking shambles.

If the conservatives are dragged to the right by euro rebels though like in 92 it leaves the centre open for a new leader to lead new new labour to the middle plant a big red flag there and own that political space for 5 years so that come the next election labour actually seem electable again
Remember no labour leader other than Blair has won a general election since 1976. And Blair won it from the centre ground

 

[Jippy]

Cheesy now thread leader...

I almost hope Labour vote in Chuka. There'll be an initial good buzz about him being the new bright young thing (Obama-esque indeed) but that will quickly dissipate when people see how pissy he is in interviews. Very patronising and the disdain he has when speaking to MPs from other parties is palpable. He is an arrogant prick and in the messianic Blair Christian lawyer mould.

 

[Jippy]

Gove in charge of human rights. Jesus wept.

Hardly, we're beholden to EU legislation on that front as you well know.

 

[soap]

The SNP has done one good thing in exposing that people south of the border don't actually have a legitimate socialist party to vote for. The closest is the Green Party but they just aren't really credible enough to be taken seriously.

Labour needed to show they were willing to go back to their old values in order to make any headway imo, and they barely showed an interest in doing that.

How though? This slight shift to the slightly-more-central-centre-right has led to a collapse. I'm not sure the party name isn't too tarnished for all that. In this election they didn't even call the blantant Tory lies about "cleaning up Labours mess" because (I think) they knew that a worryingly large section of the electorate actually think that and didn't want to be seen to be denying accountability. I could be wrong there. looking at how many votes UKIP took in the north, there could well be room for a genuine centre-left party who don't have the baggage of Iraq, association with mass immigration and however many other reasons people have to massively distrust the Labour party.

 

[FortBoyard]

Fascinating post. I tend to the left of politics yet I believe the left will never succeed in our world until it can demonstrate it will support the wealthmakers again. I'm not sure how you reconcile a stable economy with a European referendum though.

If you look at polling for the EU referendum it is showing a strong vote to stay in the union. It was just a political concession in order to keep some UKIP voters.


Your point further down the page is a good one, about contractors and suppliers. Business is what drives on our economy, and someone has to make tough unpopular decisions about keeping conditions favourable for business.

 

[Ducklegs]

Ive been looking at the Greater Manchester results. There's one really interesting thing that jumps out. The UKIP vote across the board has shot up, typically polling at between 5K and 15K. But the interesting thing is that the Tory vote has largely held up. Those UKIP votes arent from the right wingers. Numerically speaking, they appear to come from the Lib Dems. In reality it may be that the Lib Dem vote has gone to Labour and its Labour voters that have gone to UKIP, or a bit of both.

The three Bolton seats are perfect examples of this. The Tory vote was within +/- 2000 of the 2010 result, as was Labour. But UKIP went up by more than 7K in 2 seats and 6K in the other, with the Lib Dems losing slightly less than an equivalent amount.

I think UKIP are a far bigger threat to Labour than they suspected, say, 2 years ago. At that point the hope was that UKIP would split the right wing vote in the same way that the Lib Dems have historically split the left wing vote. But I think in Manchester UKIP is attracting a large working class vote, and that poses a real threat to Labour in the future.

Awful as this sounds and I don't really mean it to, UKIP do tend to poll quite well with the.... Less educated

Honestly I don't know. I agree that this Labour Party still has it's fair share of cnuts but it's clearly different to the Blair years of Labour(Well the late years anyway). Milband was a lefty(Always thought he had too rein his 'leftness' in) and the party line/vision was something you would describe as left(The fact Milband didn't getting into bed with Murdoch was something that would of never happened with the Blairights).

Also you have to factor in that this Labour party was never going to get a full majority government. So there would of been another party(Most likely a another left party) to water down the extreame elements in Labour. Still even with that said it would of still be a gamble to vote on this Labour Party but I think a gamble worth taking when the alternative was(and now is) a Tory Government.

On your last point I agree completely Labour needed to and still needs to get rid of abhorrent characters(Although the Blairights might have a stronger voice now after the result, which is a real worry). Sadly I think 5 years was too short of time to get rid of 'them'.

Plus I think it's clear now that England(Well the voters at least) don't want a sort Left government at the moment. Which to me was the biggest disappointment.

Yes I agree with this.
I think the problem with the remaining New labour MPs, just like the major era conservative ones, is their overwhelming arrogance and complete lack of humility, brought about by being in power so long.
They were able to run rough shod over any and all opposition for so long that they just stopped thinking about whether what they were doing was right, or nessasary, or good for the county, they were able to legislate with out rhyme or reason to the worst excess.
You could see this in Balls especially during his time in opposition, complete refusal to accept they did anything wrong, complete refusal to see the other side of any argument put to him and a completely narrow minded view that he is right about everything regardless of any facts.

 

[Adebesi]

@bishblaize I find it hard to believe lib dem voters defected to UKIP. They have diametrically opposing views on Europe, and basically on immigration as well. People leaving the LibDems feel let down on a lot of things but it's hard to see its disgruntled voters doing a 180 degree turn on such fundamental issues of policy, going from a liberal attitude to an extremely illiberal one in one sudden change.

 

[Bury Red]

Both the Tories and Labour should be fairly wary of UKIPs rise, statistically they both look to have stood still/gained a little while the Lib Dems lost a huge chunk and UKIP gained about 80% of what the LibDems lost. It's not likely to be the LibDems that voted UKIP though, it's disgruntled Tories and possibly even a few Labour who would never vote Tory that switched to UKIP with their losses being more than compensated by disappointed LibDems.

If/when those LibDems return to their fold I could see both the Tories and Labour losing 5%+ of their percentage share which in a number of seats would see UKIP home.

 

[Mozza]

The story of the election.

SNP shat on Labour
Labour and Tories swapped seats to little net effect
Everyone shat on the Lib Dems, with most of their seats going Tory

 

[bishblaize]

@bishblaize I find it hard to believe lib dem voters defected to UKIP. They have diametrically opposing views on Europe, and basically on immigration as well. People leaving the LibDems feel let down on a lot of things but it's hard to see its disgruntled voters doing a 180 degree turn on such fundamental issues of policy, going from a liberal attitude to an extremely illiberal one in one sudden change.

Quite possibly, but that raises a worrying possibility for Labour, that they've actually lost a lot more of their traditional working class support than they realise but its being hidden because disaffected Lib Dem voters have replaced them.

 

[Sassy Colin]

I voted Labour, but this is all a bit silly in my opinion.

Are these the idiots who damaged the cenotaph the day after VE day? They wouldn't even be in a position to cause traffic jams on a Saturday evening if it wasn't for the sacrifices people made 70 years ago.

Bunch of fecking idiots.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Not their personal wealth, rather their employees wealth, their suppliers and contractors wealth, and the country's wealth from the taxes all those people pay.

That's the problem with the left though, they think money grows on trees.

 

[Redlambs]

Quite possibly, but that raises a worrying possibility for Labour, that they've actually lost a lot more of their traditional working class support than they realise but its being hidden because disaffected Lib Dem voters have replaced them.

Sadly that's what I was saying since before the election. The general mood around me in my little part of the world was exactly that, a lot of us working class just couldn't see them as a viable vote anymore.

 

[Adebesi]

Quite possibly, but that raises a worrying possibility for Labour, that they've actually lost a lot more of their traditional working class support than they realise but its being hidden because disaffected Lib Dem voters have replaced them.

That's always been my assumption. Especially in the north.

 

[DOTA]

Are these the idiots who damaged the cenotaph the day after VE day?

One or two and a vast majority that would condemn them, one would think (unless one is in the habit of making silly assumptions).

They wouldn't even be in a position to cause traffic jams on a Saturday evening if it wasn't for the sacrifices people made 70 years ago.

Quite possibly true. Utterly irrellevant, unless you think those sacrifices were made in the name of stopping protest, mind.

Bunch of fecking idiots

Perhaps. There are possibly better things to do of a Saturday afternoon but at least they got out in the sun for a bit.

 

[DOTA]

I think a fair amount of those who used the Lib Dems as a protest vote did indeed go UKIP, this time. As did a fair amount of Labour voters who are still dispairing at New Labour not doing enough for the working class in northern towns. I don't really see a future for UKIP, given we're having an EU referendum, though.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Dave is offering the SNP full fiscal autonomy and the end of the Barnett formula. Can Sturgeon delivery her promises of increased spending when her country is already at a sizeable deficit at current levels of spending?

He is good at stitching people up is Dave.

 

[Mozza]

That's the problem with the left though, they think money grows on trees.

Capitalism would have died without the biggest state intervention in history when the banking crash happened

 

[MajorTom]

Are these the idiots who damaged the cenotaph the day after VE day? They wouldn't even be in a position to cause traffic jams on a Saturday evening if it wasn't for the sacrifices people made 70 years ago.

Bunch of fecking idiots.

Too right! Half of them don't even know they are born and just go along to these things because they think it gives them a little purpose in their petty, mixed up minds and lives. There was a documentary on the BBC a few months back following some people who go to various protests and quite frankly if you asked them to walk in a straight line they would make a bloody circle. I loved one of the signs from the protest yesterday "I've had enough" and then some other spiel, great so you have written it down on a piece of cardboard and vandalised some stuff. Great way to stick it to the man.

 

[rcoobc]

I'm amazed by so many on here saying on here that labour need to move to the left and stop being tory-lite, and be a socialist party, and all that stuff.

In my opinion that's a sure-fire way of getting a Tory government again next time. They DID move to the left, which caused centralist lib dem voters to vote tory

 

[Sassy Colin]

One of the banners in the picture says "we demand PR", so a House of Commons full of UKIP MPs? Great!

 

[ThierryHenry]

One of the banners in the picture says "we demand PR", so a House of Commons full of UKIP MPs? Great!

If people voted for them, those views deserve to be represented in Parliament.

 

[rcoobc]

One of the banners in the picture says "we demand PR", so a House of Commons full of UKIP MPs? Great!

Hardly full. Were they 15%

 

[naturalized]

The person who posted that tweet celebrating vandalism is an "intersectional feminist". Says it all, and I say that as someone who's generally very sympathetic to socially left-wing causes.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I'm amazed by so many on here saying on here that labour need to move to the left and stop being tory-lite, and be a socialist party, and all that stuff.

In my opinion that's a sure-fire way of getting a Tory government again next time. They DID move to the left, which caused centralist lib dem voters to vote tory

Chukka was on Andrew Marr this morning about moving more central. I don't think Labour have any other choice if they want to get back in.

 

[FortBoyard]

I think a fair amount of those who used the Lib Dems as a protest vote did indeed go UKIP, this time. As did a fair amount of Labour voters who are still dispairing at New Labour not doing enough for the working class in northern towns. I don't really see a future for UKIP, given we're having an EU referendum, though.

There is no way on earth Lib Dem voters went UKIP in large numbers.

Labour and Tory voters went UKIP.

A large portion of Lib Dem voters like myself went Tory.

Ideal state was a continuation of the coalition. Anything was better than a minority labour reliant on the SNP.

 

[DOTA]

There is no way on earth Lib Dem voters went UKIP in large numbers.

Labour and Tory voters went UKIP.

A large portion of Lib Dem voters like myself went Tory.

Ideal state was a continuation of the coalition. Anything was better than a minority labour reliant on the SNP.

I think you underestimate how many Lib Dem voters voted Lib Dem in 2010 for the sole reason that they were neither Tory or Labour. Obviously anyone who votes based on nuanced opinions on policy isn't going to switch from Lib Dem to UKIP like that but there are plenty of people who do not fall in to that category.

 

[Adebesi]

I think a fair amount of those who used the Lib Dems as a protest vote did indeed go UKIP, this time. As did a fair amount of Labour voters who are still dispairing at New Labour not doing enough for the working class in northern towns. I don't really see a future for UKIP, given we're having an EU referendum, though.

I would seriously worry about those people. They clearly have absolutely no idea what they're voting for in terms of policy. It's not about the nuances of policy, it's about what they stand for on a fundamental level. People obviously have a right to vote even if they have no idea what they are voting for, but it should be acknowledged. Switching between those parties is as clear a demonstration of stupidity as is possible in a polling booth. I don't think UKIP voters are stupid if they believe what they stand for, that's fair enough. But if they do they can't possibly have believed what the LibDems stood for in 2010 and were stupid to vote for them then, simply because they weren't labour or Tory. The kind of people who must stagger from one calamity to another in their lives, unable to work around the simplest challenges, or to make sense of even the most self evident information.