Charles Clarke now saying that he thinks Scottish Labour should split off into an entirely new party. I've been thinking that for a while, this election may hasten it.
UK General Election 2015 | Conservatives win with an overall majority
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I'm pretty sure I read that there was more income tax received at 45% than there was at 50%. It basically said the 50% higher tax bracket is a white elephant, just like the mansion tax would be. Anyone who has the finances to pay it has the means of avoiding a good portion of it.
I see examples of this everywhere. The higher tax rate is 40% flat, the directors pay themselves £200k a year. The tax rate is moved to 50% on income over £150k and suddenly all directors earn exactly £150k and their wives are personal assistants on £50k a year and so the actual tax taken is less.
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I was a bit hasty in predicting no more shocks in NI last night, Sinn Fein lost Fermanagh and South Tyrone (that's one constituency) to the UUP. The DUP have as many seats as the Lib Dems 
These were 'open goal' years for Labour, yet they mostly succeeded in scoring own goals or merely idling in midfield. It pains me to write this but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that, at heart, Labour have only themselves to blame for this defeat.
Yeah, but they also raised the lowest income tax threshold. Honestly, they dont get enough credit for that. People earning minimum wage gain an extra couple of hundred quid for that. Of course the tories are the party of tax cuts, but its a policy that helped millions of people.
Indeed, I feel that this was more pro-economy than pro-rich people. As you say, it brought more money in. But I'm just pointing it out.
It's true enough, I held out hope (though was still always cautious on the chances of winning) for many years as Ed's a thoroughly decent bloke, but in the end they got far too few wins against the government, arguments on important issues were lost in the eyes of the public and unfortunately presentation is absolutely key to winning these days.
Yep.
A lib dem policy, and one they shat on by raising VAT.
Do Labour have a 'leader' and not just decent blokes/lasses who are good at policy? Unfortunately they don't seem to have learned the lessons of the 1980's when they led with public faces that hadn't really adapted to modern media-driven politics. It took Blair to teach them what was needed but they didn't remember that lesson when putting Ed in charge.
I think some Scottish voters will be regretting their voting decision now. It seems that a lot of Scottish voters voted SNP on the assumption that Ed would do a deal with them, which would give them the best of both worlds - a part in Government and a voice in Westminster that's driving devolution/independence/Scottish interests in Westminster.
That's backfired spectacularly though. Their approach has driven a lot of English voters to the Tories and they've ended up bringing in a right wing Government through their actions.
When the next election comes around the SNP won't repeat the trick. A potential coalition with the SNP has been shown to be suicide, so Labour will rule it out absolutely from this point onwards, which means that Scottish voters will be in a tactical voting situation - if they vote SNP, they'll get the Tories. I think that may be enough for Labour to reverse their fortunes. To what degree, we'll have to see.
That's backfired spectacularly though. Their approach has driven a lot of English voters to the Tories and they've ended up bringing in a right wing Government through their actions.
When the next election comes around the SNP won't repeat the trick. A potential coalition with the SNP has been shown to be suicide, so Labour will rule it out absolutely from this point onwards, which means that Scottish voters will be in a tactical voting situation - if they vote SNP, they'll get the Tories. I think that may be enough for Labour to reverse their fortunes. To what degree, we'll have to see.
This is all your fault for predicting Ed Milliband would be the next PM...
Hard to imagine Scottish Nationalsim waning in popularity after five years of a Tory majority government.
I'm assuming that the SNP and Labour are ideologically identical but that SNP ran a single-issue campaign. Is there any hope for a merger between the two without a Scottish breakaway being part of the deal?
No.
Then Labour have to lurch right and hope that tory sleaze and bastarding rises significantly over the next five years.
@ItsEssexRob So just how much did you bet against a Tory majority then? It's the only explanation I can think of for how the polls were so wildly different to the actual result.
Indeed, thank god for the lib dems. But they still did it. Probably for economical reasons too. The economy slows down when the average man and women doesn't have money to spend on goods and services. But they still did it.
A 2.5% rise in VAT? That hits everyone who spends, not just the working class.
By my calculations (not taking into account interest and anything like that), the personal allowance increased by £2,965 in the last parliament. But let's call it £2,500. That's £2,500 that is no longer being taxed at 20%. £500 saved?
To spend that £500 on a VAT rise of 2.5%, that man/women would have to spend £500/0.025 = £20,000 on VAT-able goods. Per year.
The lower income people don't earn £20,000 so it's a moot point. From my maths... I think it helped the poor.
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They don't get credit for it, because they aren't the party for the working classes, because they are named "Conservatives". People are far too attached to the titles attached to the parties. That's why the shy Tory vote exists, people that believe in the policies but don't want to admit it for fear of being called a Tory and having the negative "out for himself, hates the poor" tag that can go with it.
There's lots of these policies though, policies that each party cast in stone that aren't a big deal in the scheme of things but are shouted from the rooftops to make them seem different. A Mansion Tax. A Bedroom Tax. A Welfare Cap. A 50% Additional Tax. Most of these don't raise any significant taxes to make them worthwhile, and often don't really effect that many people, but they sing into the ears of their fan base. Imagine a Liverpool manager talking about net spend and conspiracies against their club... You get the idea.
The 50% tax bracket effects hardly anyone in the country, but the vast majority of working class people will think it's a great policy and vote for Labour because of it. The Mansion Tax likewise. A welfare cap will affect a tiny % of the population, but will hit home with mid-high income families. The bedroom tax likewise. These are basically plastic irrelevant policies that each of the parties shouts to the rooftops to differentiate themselves.
The real issues they all agree on. More money for the NHS. Protect the Education budget. Protect International aid. All other departments subject to cuts. Balance the books inside 5 years. Help young people own their own home. More apprenticeships. Increase the net wages above inflation for the lowest earners.
I said this last night and I'll say it again. The issue here shouldn't be voting for SNP but rather the (imo) illogical reaction from some of the English to people voting SNP. They were worried about SNP and Labour doing deals so they sided with the Tories thus meaning Miliband's only hope in hell would be the SNP rather than actually voting for Labour and ensuring there was no need for a coalition with the SNP. It's illogical to blame this on the SNP.
Even if everyone in Scotland voted Labour we'd still have a Tory govt. We voted Labour in 2010 and got Cameron. Why would it be any different in 2020? Vote Labour to appease the English and still end up with a Tory govt anyway?
The only people who have brought in a right-wing government are the people of England that voted for it. I need to reel out the old classic; "there's more panda's in Scotland than Tory MP's".
That was clearly the hope or expectation, whether they come to the same conclusions in the aftermath though I'm no so sure. The case for independence will have been strengthened in many of their eyes, they'll see the SNP as standing up to a nasty Tory government and reward them in kind. The tories will put through english votes for english laws, further marginalising the Scots and any influence they can have in a Labour government, whilst also speeding up boundary reviews that should net them 20-odd seats.
Yes because thats exactly what I said
exactly, same bracket as Tory haters that have helped record growth/jobs etc...I just don't get it. The facts are the final argument.
I like the idea of online voting, Im just trying to argue PeterStoreys claim that had there been widespread online voting labour would have performed much better which is quite frankly bullshit.
I agree with what you say, but I know that I am still one of those people.
You know, to be honest, I am all for a wealth tax. A nice wealth tax of.. I don't know... 1% on all wealth over £1,000,000? Sounds great. Even if it took little more than the cost to run it, as long as people didn't leave the country because of it (which they would), it would be good.
But let's imagine for a moment that no one will leave the country, and it will employ 10,000 people to enforce, and effectively bring in nothing.
1) You are reducing the gap between rich and poor. The growing gap between the top 1% and the bottom 50% is going to be a major problem in the next 20 years.
2) You are employing 10,000 people. Thats 10k new jobs, 10k people off of jobs seekers (maybe), etc.
It doesnt work in practice, but in theory, it's great.
Another person who completely ignored that part of my post where I said I LIKE THE IDEA OF ONLINE VOTING
This is correct.
Lowering the the high rate tax bracket actually results in a lower tax take, not an increase, also saying you are going to tax the wealthy at punitive levels is either spectacularly naive or takes the average voter for an idiot (which to be fair most of them are). The rich just avoid anything they feel is punitive or move their businesses elsewhere.
Exactly the point Im trying to make.......Thank you.
You like it when you get to set "educational" hurdles to the right to vote. That's paternalistic and undemocratic and that's the part I responded to.
Votes per seat in parliament:
SNP 26k
CON 34k
LAB 40k
LD 291k
GRN 1.1m
UKIP 3.8m
SNP 26k
CON 34k
LAB 40k
LD 291k
GRN 1.1m
UKIP 3.8m
I'd suggest you read my reply again.
As for the BJP, excuse me if I don't quite share the enthusiasm for unfettered capitalism when inequality is rising. This isn't the place to talk about it, but suffice to say GDP numbers are overrated. Their economic policies are just hogwash, rampant cronyism. I'm not even going to talk about the regressive, illiterate Hindutva nonsense. 5000 years of history, great ideas, great dynasties, Gandhi, Nehru, a million heroes; the Hindutva nutjobs dump it all down the tube.
If there were then there is a damn good chance your nation would not have elected Bush jr and the world would be a much more pleasent place today for it
Same. This is utterly horrendous and I sincerely hope that those who did vote blue won't be unfortunate enough to experience any form of disability in their family over the next five (probably ten or so) years - particularly mental issues. I went through hell and to have to go through an even worse form of that process again is already feeling like a step back.
This. Sorry Nick but you've got no idea.Damaging?
They've dragged the disabled through hell over the past 5 years and their vote has gone up!
Well said. We'll be thrown like lambs to the slaughter as the mentally ill are always easier to scapegoat and have people just say "man up" when it isn't that fecking simple.
Surprised Labour got Chester back.....and yet flopped mostly everywhere else. Sigh
I dont quite know how to express what Im trying to say, not intelligence based by any means, just that people should be voting based on what the party or candidate stand for and that they have some form of awareness rather than voting for X y or z because my parents always did, my friends are or I like his hair.
What exactly have the Conservatives done to the disabled?
Does anyone have a list?
Does anyone have a list?
hmm lot's of opinion, not sure about the facts...
Yeah, I think most everyone agrees with that. But the only thing we can do is encourage more awareness. Any attempts to make it a requirement will be abused and will disenfranchise the poor/minorities.
That is remarkable.