They literally are. I mean I'm not a billionaire or even millionaire but I'll happily pay more. A lot of rich people love the country more than they love their bank balance.
UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80
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They literally are. I mean I'm not a billionaire or even millionaire but I'll happily pay more. A lot of rich people love the country more than they love their bank balance.
France, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Austria, Denmark, Finland, Luxembourg and Iceland all had them until recently. 15 European countries in total had them, now just four do.
Spain - but they have reduced it over the years
Norway - the government has stated they want to reduce and eventually eliminate it.
Belgium
Switzerland - it is a tiny percentage and crucially - it is hugely offset by the quality of life there.
Governments are not in the habit of reducing or removing taxes if they increase tax revenues.
I don't know how to get it through to you. They are not experts if they are getting it wrong. This 'expert' of yours says people don't leave if taxes are raised, but there are many countries around the world that prove that to be completely false.
What tax rate would i choose? I would have a flat rate on all income, say around 25% or whatever percentage would match the current tax receipts, for everyone. No loopholes, thresholds, or other get outs. What's fairer than the same rate for all?
'Here, look at our lovely bar charts. You'll have a 101% chance of winning.'
Out of the 20 richest UK people about four live in the UK and those that do live in the UK probably have most of their assets elsewhere. It won't be the really rich people that will be paying extra tax.
Some people would gladly pay extra taxes to pay for better services but others won't.
That's interesting, I'm gonna look into what happened with these. Although my initial look suggests that some of the countries you say don't have it any more do (France & Netherlands according to Wikipedia).
We aren't relying on 20 people for tax, I don't know if you've realised but that list isn't "The 20 rich people in the UK", it's "The 20 richest people in the UK".
The big issue with France was not the wealth tax but the top rate income tax, but they did remove their wealth tax in 2017. What they have now is only on real estate.
Netherlands has a tax on profits from assets which looks a bit like a wealth tax but it's not really, it's their version of capital gains tax.
It's from here:
https://flavible.co.uk/polls/1433
They claim to have used Yougov data to make projections but there are concerns over the company as they aren't a part of the British Polling Council.
Indefensible.
Ooh I'll take a real estate tax too.
The prevalent argument on my reading up so far (all of 10 minutes to be fair) seems to be that it costs more too administer a wealth tax then its worth. A bit like Universal Credit and all the "cracking down on benefits cheats" nonsense?
Yeah its unreliable as feck. The website looks something I did at school for I.C.T
I said the 20 richest
But the 20 richest are worth more than 21 to 200 added together and I haven't looked into where 21 to 200 live or have their assets.
My point is that I do not see this policy producing additional funds for the UK. I agree everyone should pay their fair share of tax but I think it's naïve to believe rich people won't avoid paying tax if they can do so.
Yeah I know what your point is. My point is that using a sample size of the 20 biggest outliers for any sort of analysis on this is fecking dumb.
The Tories with the help of the Lib/Dems have brought so much misery to so many and yet there is a debate about who to vote for.
good grief.
good grief.
There are only 150 billionaires and the top 20 are worth more than the others put together so forget the billionaires.
Believe what you want to believe, it won't work.
Pointless anyway as Corbyn will never be PM.
It's both. I have a little experience of wealth taxes having lived in a few places now. Some rich people just leave off the bat, but some don't and they use firms like Pwc, E&Y etc to manage their affairs and represent them to the tax office. The people working in these companies run rings around the average tax office employee. It's not worth the effort to chase them, and even if they do it successfully, all those people do is move away and take any future tax payments with them.
The taxes suggested by Corbyn are not aimed at the rich who will defend themselves. They are aimed at the average person (is your house worth more than his 125k threshold?) who will not be able to stand up to HMRC.
That's fine with me too. There are a lot of people who aren't among the very rich who can afford to pay more tax.
There are also a lot of very rich people who aren't too concerned with maximising their wealth and just want to live where they want to live.
You're highlighting people who have already left though. Do you think we should lower taxes so they are encouraged to come back?
Flat rate tax makes literally zero sense.
25% of income is going to disproportionately impact the lower paid so, yes, there are fairer methods.
Swinson's at the wheel'Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats'(!)
Yeah, but, feck the poor. Vote Tory.
As you've been told. Those that you cited having left the country have already left! So we don't gain tax from them now or under a Labour government.
The original 5 live radio interview with the Labour MP spoke about "...the tax dodgers and the billionaires.". Why are you only looking at one half of the argument?
Having taken a closer look at some of their other predictions and had a look at their methodology it's worthless. I know it was set up by a couple of university students, I can only assume they were not studying statistics or mathematics.
No. Although Ratcliffe did come back when tax reduced for a few years but voted Brexit and left again , like a lot of the others, could have something to do with new EU rules starting next year.
Even humble millionaires who are much less wealthy than the billionaires may still stay in the UK but their assets will be somewhere else.
As 11101 it's easy for the HMRC to chase someone who's underpaid their tax bill by £100 than chase a multi-millionaire who can pay to have their tax efficiency sorted and afford lawyers and accountants to look after their interests.
Thing is most people who become wealthy are very concerned with maximising their wealth. It doesn't happen by accident.
If they were concerned with maximising their wealth above all else, they'd ALL be living in Monaco or somewhere else where you don't have to pay tax. They aren't, so you are wrong. Soz.
So you don't think we should lower taxes to entice these people back but you are completely against raising them in case more leave. You're basically arguing with yourself then.
Saw this- In an election rally in Telford, Corbyn said: “My personal views on billionaires is that they’ve obviously got a great deal of money therefore they’re in a very strong position to pay a lot more tax."
“So our tax plans will affect the richest 5% of our society. We will be chasing down tax evasion, tax avoidance and tax havens because at the end of the day if you’re doing some very clever wheeze, which somehow or other is avoiding your levels of taxation, you should be paying. Go further away [and] what happens then? You’ve got an underfunded school, hospital and public services as a whole.”
So if most of the richest people have left, who is going to pay, does he really think the lesser millionaires don't have lawyers and accountants to make their assets are secure and that they pay the least amount possible.
As I said above HMRC chase the easy targets and always have and always will do. This isn't something new.
No I'm saying that the policy will not produce more funds for the UK. I didn't say I was against raising taxes nor that the rich shouldn't pay their fair share
And you are basing your theory on a small group of people who have already left and are therefore irrelevant. When the top 5% includes people like me who are on the cusp and happy to pay more. And people like my sibling who earns 10x what I earn and a) is happy to pay more, b) thinks they should pay more and c) isn't leaving the UK any time soon even if taxes go up.
For most people the only two certainties in life...Death and Taxes!, for the super rich its Death only, but they are working on this too!
So I have a sample of the 20 richest people in the UK and you have a sample of 2 people.
Are you avoiding tax, are you a billionaire or are you one of the people who may be working hard or making something of your life who will be affected - the super rich and the tax dodgers won't be affected.
Firstly, I didn't say most of the billionaires have left. I said the small number you pointed out as having already left are irrelevant to your point - your criticism of an increasing taxation for billionaires policy.
HMRC will be influenced by government policy. Ultimately your position is, don't try to increase taxes for the wealthiest because they will avoid it. Fine, so you close the loopholes, step by step.
You also say it's easier for HMRC to target a £100 underpayment in tax. But I disagree with your premise because the return on investment for HMRC is much higher for larger amounts.
You are mistakenly looking at the current activities in HMRC rather than the over arching strategy change which would take place there if policy changed.
This is far from true when you factor in how many people will be affected by Labours plans for IHT.
Oh Christ, do you actually think that was me presenting a statistical example. I didn't realise you were that silly. How about my 2 examples and the 2/3rd of brits who in a poll said they'd happily pay more tax. Do you think the 1/3rd who said they wouldn't includes all of the richest people?
I didn't say you said that, I said that.
I also didn't say I was against raising taxes on the rich or trying to nab tax dodgers, what I'm saying is it won't work and this extra revenue to pay for whatever is planned by Labour won't be there.
They've been trying to close loopholes since time immemorial and the easiest loophole is for people to leave the country or at least have their assets outside the country.
Joke.
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