UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[utdalltheway]

Exactly. Look at Boris.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

As someone said, it's really the Lib Dems can feel aggrieved about it and it's hard to feel any sympathy for them. But seriously, with 11% of the vote they'll have 1.6% of the seats. That's insane.

(also, Tories have a clear, 56% majority with 43.6% of the vote)

It is ridiculous. Can you share any links to the figures?

 

[Siorac]

The Polish are only one group of immigrants. Immigration from countries outside of the EU increased significantly under Blair and a lot of these people over time brought their families, including elderly parents, with them.

Well the post I replied to was talking about EU citizens. Considering that his is labelled by all and sundry as a Brexit election, it's not unreasonable to limit immigration talk to EU citizens - after all, Brexit has little to do with non-EU migration.

 

[Redlambs]

Yeah he obviously needs to go.To be fair to him it doesn’t sound like he’s trying to lead Labour any more, he just doesn’t want to quit and leave a vacuum. Probably because as leader he hopes to have a bit more of a say in the selection process

This is what worries me.

Yep, that's the problem. He should walk and now.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I voted labour, but I’ll say this: at least such a large majority means an end to the rudderless Britain we’ve seen since the coalition. It’s all on Boris now, and he’ll have no excuses if he doesn’t deliver.

I’m also hoping such a massive defeat means labour will have to rethink and come back stronger. Hopefully everyone has had enough of shouting at eachother, and we can actually get back to something resembling normality once brexit is out the way. As despite all the arguing, not every Tory is a heartless bastard who hates the poor, and not every labour voter is a millennial hipster with no idea about economics. I’m a bit sick of all the noise tbh, so hopefully everyone calms down a bit.

If they don't deliver they'll just lie again.

 

[Siorac]

It is ridiculous. Can you share any links to the figures?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...full-results-live-labour-conservatives-tories

Scroll down to the National results part.

 

[Pexbo]

Bla bla Thatcherite bla bla.

Not just Corbyn who needs to go, pretty much the entire Shadow Cabinet needs binning off.

It’s going to be a fight with Momentum isn’t it?

I want Starmer to take the reins with a pragmatic approach where he gives a sensible front to the party once more while keeping Momentum in the conversation in the background.

Just as I'm writing this Starmer pops up on the BBC and is asked about the Leadership. His response says to me that he wants it.

 

[Pexbo]

Billy big bollocks on now letting us know he stood up to Corbyn and saw all this coming.

 

[utdalltheway]

Is there any upside to this for the non wealthy U.K. folk?
Struggling to see it, tbh.

 

[Redlambs]

Is there any upside to this for the non wealthy U.K. folk?
Struggling to see it, tbh.

Bendy bananas innit.

 

[nickm]

It’s going to be a fight with Momentum isn’t it?

I want Starmer to take the reins with a pragmatic approach where he gives a sensible front to the party once more while keeping Momentum in the conversation in the background.

Just as I'm writing this Starmer pops up on the BBC and is asked about the Leadership. His response says to me that he wants it.

I'm not sure about this. Part of me thinks you're going to need to expunge the Corbyn/Milne tendency completely, and that means you need a fighter. Does Starmer have the stomach and passion for it? The other part thinks maybe that wing will finally shut up and let the pragmatists get on with it, but I'm not sure that's likely (or likely to succeed with the electorate). So maybe you still need a fighter.

 

[Pexbo]

Is there any upside to this for the non wealthy U.K. folk?
Struggling to see it, tbh.

Well a lot of people seem to be genuine when they say they don’t care how much it hurts the UK as long as we leave the EU.

Lets hold them to that.

 

[Adisa]

Is there any upside to this for the non wealthy U.K. folk?
Struggling to see it, tbh.

The pound should settle. That should stop food prices skyrocketing.

 

[Pexbo]

St Ives coming in. I used to play Sunday league with Andrew George

 

[11101]

So you're saying that even now, seventy-four years later, the UK is suffering the effects of World War 2 and therefore cannot afford to raise taxes?

Because compounding or not, that is utterly ridiculous. Lots and lots of countries managed to rebuild after World War 2 and have high taxes. Your point simply doesn't stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

fecking hell, even the likes of Poland and Hungary have recovered well enough from World War II by this point - and these countries had no Marshall Plan but had 40 years of Soviet rule instead! The idea that rebuilding after World War 2 still hinders the UK economically... it's bonkers.

What are you talking about? You're taking 2+2 and getting 11.

Scandinavia thrives on a socialist model because they were able to set up for it after WW2. We were not, so we can forget adopting that model. We can raise taxes but with 60%+ of the population receiving welfare and 30% dependent on it, there is only so far we can go. Taking it too far inhibits the private sector growth that pays for it, and the only region that has managed to have both high taxes and an unhindered private sector is you guessed it... Scandinavia.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

No one isn't concerned about children or the homeless. However momentum/Labour supporters tried to convey the message that if you voted Tory you were actively looking to kill these people. Its a horrible message, rightly rejected.

Whether you were actively looking to or not, that's what your vote endorses and more importantly empowers, each individual cross in the conservative box is the death knell for the most vulnerable and marginalised people in our society, let alone the majority of the population who don't seem to realise they're in the midst of a class war they are losing on all fronts.

Its that simple and the fact it isn't taken on board by the very people its there to protect is the clarification we live in a democracy by name only.

Tony Ben had a 4 stage criteria for democracy to function in that the quantifiable metrics needed to be improving; being a healthy population, an educated population, an informed population and one free of fear. where i'm sitting its abundantly clear most of those are failing and it shows.

 

[nickm]

It isn’t a fix, the same happened for Brexit, Trump etc social media including the cafe aren’t the popular opinion. My social media was all labour, vote labour, tories bastards etc yet at work, the people who rarely make statements online were voting Tory.

Talk, as they say, is cheap.

 

[nimic]

As someone said, it's really the Lib Dems can feel aggrieved about it and it's hard to feel any sympathy for them. But seriously, with 11% of the vote they'll have 1.6% of the seats. That's insane.

(also, Tories have a clear, 56% majority with 43.6% of the vote)

Your electoral system is bonkers.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I'm not sure about this. Part of me thinks you're going to need to expunge the Corbyn/Milne tendency completely, and that means you need a fighter. Does Starmer have the stomach and passion for it? The other part thinks maybe that wing will finally shut up and let the pragmatists get on with it, but I'm not sure that's likely (or likely to succeed with the electorate). So maybe you still need a fighter.

Yeah, I think you're right. Corbyn's style of politics is not one of compromise. Someone needs to cleanse the party of the all bullshit hard left politics.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

So maybe you still need a fighter.

Jess Phillips?

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Conservatives hold St Ives. All seats now in. Final Conservative majority of 80.

 

[nickm]

Whether you were actively looking to or not, that's what your vote endorses and more importantly empowers, each individual cross in the conservative box is the death knell for the most vulnerable and marginalised people in our society, let alone the majority of the population who don't seem to realise they're in the midst of a class war they are losing on all fronts.

I think the problem for Labour is talk of class war, and people voting against their class interests, puts people off and perhaps labels those who say it as SWP-type placard wavers. Labour are going to have to find a better way to talk to these voters.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

“Next year both the Durham Miners’ Gala and the Notting Hill Carnival will take place in seats held by the Conservatives.”
Michael Gove

The Miner's Gala is in City of Durham which Labour held.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

I think the problem for Labour is talk of class war, and people voting against their class interests, puts people off and perhaps labels those who say it as SWP-type placard wavers. Labour are going to have to find a better way to talk to these voters.

I agree but it doesn't change reality.

 

[RamblingRebel]

First time in this thread, and was shocked at that poll. Im guessing there was a lot of tears this morning when you saw the results.

If it all gets too much for you, pop over to the transfer forum to cheer yourself up. Apparently Sancho is coming in January.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The Polish are only one group of immigrants. Immigration from countries outside of the EU increased significantly under Blair and a lot of these people over time brought their families, including elderly parents, with them.

@Fiskey, you surely understand that non-EU migration will INCREASE after brexit? Surely?
You have common sense.

 

[Siorac]

Your electoral system is bonkers.

I'm not British but ours is quite shit, too. It actually "compensates" the WINNER of individual constituencies.

 

[nickm]

Jess Phillips?

Maybe. I like her style but not sure if she's tough enough for the job. But then I don't know her that well to be honest.

 

[Fiskey]

@Fiskey, you surely understand that non-EU migration will INCREASE after brexit? Surely?
You have common sense.

What do you not understand about what I'm saying?

If immigration is planned for and has democratic consent it can be a great thing. This has not happened in the past 20 years which has lead to lots of problems. This isn't controversial, it's accepted across party lines and in all mainstream discussion.

 

[esmufc07]

Jack Straw going in on Momentum

 

[Pexbo]

What do you not understand about what I'm saying?

If immigration is planned for and has democratic consent it can be a great thing. This has not happened in the past 20 years which has lead to lots of problems. This isn't controversial, it's accepted across party lines and in all mainstream discussion.

You do realise that we could have had the same level of control over immigration within the EU as is being touted outside of it? All of our governments, including the Tories of the last 10 years have chosen not to because our economy is dependant on it.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan says the general election result is "nothing short of a catastrophe" for the Labour Party.

"For the fourth general election in a row the Labour Party has failed to put forward a compelling case to the British people," he says in a post on Facebook.

"It is no consolation that we performed so much better here in London.

"If we are truly honest with ourselves, we knew in our hearts that Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership was deeply unpopular with the British people and that we were extremely unlikely to form a Labour government last night.

"Labour now stands more politically and culturally removed than ever before from many of the people our party was formed to represent and that means asking ourselves some very difficult questions."

[BBC]

 

[Fiskey]

You do realise that we could have had the same level of control over immigration within the EU as is being touted outside of it? All of our governments, including the Tories of the last 10 years have chosen not to because our economy is dependant on it.

No we couldn't, David Cameron goes into detail as to why in his book. But that isn't the point here.

 

[Pexbo]

One thing that’s really starting to wind me up is this idea that if it’s not Corbyn it has to be a Blair like centre right candidate. There’s a whole spectrum of personalities out there.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You do realise that we could have had the same level of control over immigration within the EU as is being touted outside of it? All of our governments, including the Tories of the last 10 years have chosen not to because our economy is dependant on it.

It like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

[Siorac]

What are you talking about? You're taking 2+2 and getting 11.

Scandinavia thrives on a socialist model because they were able to set up for it after WW2. We were not, so we can forget adopting that model. We can raise taxes but with 60%+ of the population receiving welfare and 30% dependent on it, there is only so far we can go. Taking it too far inhibits the private sector growth that pays for it, and the only region that has managed to have both high taxes and an unhindered private sector is you guessed it... Scandinavia.

As the unhindered private sector and the high economic freedom demonstrates, Scandinavia doesn't actually have a socialist model.

"Only so far" and "taking it too far" implies that there is a certain limit in taxation, after which it is counterproductive. Which is true. What you take for granted is that Britain has already reached that limit and higher taxes would inhibit growth in the private sector. This idea, that lower taxes = more growth, is a truism of "supply side economics" that is taken as gospel despite never having been actually proven.

And as I said, this World War 2 talk is silly. Countries changed their entire economic model and recovered relatively quickly.

 

[nickm]

I agree but it doesn't change reality.

Also, I'm not sure it's the right analysis. I'm just not sure politics is class based anymore, despite the financial crisis. I think it's about identity. The collective is dead, it's been fractured by economics and technology.

 

[Pexbo]

No we couldn't, David Cameron goes into detail as to why in his book. But that isn't the point here.

Where admission is permitted, an EU citizen may remain in the UK for up to three months from the date of entry, provided they do not become a burden on the social assistance system of the UK.

If an EU citizen does not meet one of the requirements for residence set out in the Directive [employed, self-employed, self-sufficient, student] then they will not have a right to reside in the UK and may be removed.”

 

[Redlambs]

One thing that’s really starting to wind me up is this idea that if it’s not Corbyn it has to be a Blair like centre right candidate. There’s a whole spectrum of personalities out there.

That's what I've been arguing all night.

But if you aren't full left, you are evil and should vote Tory. There's no compromise, that's for idiots.

 

[711]

One thing that’s really starting to wind me up is this idea that if it’s not Corbyn it has to be a Blair like centre right candidate. There’s a whole spectrum of personalities out there.

Blair's centre right now? He's a sneaky fecker that one.