Even Thatcher had it at 60% during her 1st term and there were years of good growth in the 70s with higher tax rates. The argument was that you don't get higher GPD growth with higher taxes, it's clearly been possible before. Maybe we should just question the people who tend to push this the most when they often have the most to benefit from it.
UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80
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Thing is, I think this stereotype is shifting. There aren't that many upper class tories left, they died out, so the contempt for the poor largely comes from the metropolitan momentum guys.
Scotland is utterly disenfranchised. I know that's way down the list in England but it's not up here.
What did he say?
He was basically saying he didn't vote for Labour as they weren't united, she couldn't understand it but wasn't trying to.
Definitely the Tories .You only need to read what the PM wrote about them.
Well, from a selfish point of view, i'm pissed today. I'm pissed that brexit is 100% going through, i'm pissed that for the majority of my adult life i've had to endure Tory leadership and i'm pissed that our country has sided with racists. The bad blood will remain, it's not going anywhere. This is the future of politics in the UK and the World for the forseeable future.
We had the IMF come in during the 70s, we only got growth when the government spent money it didn't have. It was only 60% because Thatcher was in the process of cutting it down, it was never the end destination.
it’s a key tenant of the Conservative party, they are unionists. There is zero appetite to change this.
the SNP haven’t really affected the Tory party, as it’s was Labours heartland
He will be back, my guess is the Green Party for 6 months! He appears to be really disliked in Streatham and they are pleased he no longer represents them.
The Labour Party is literally being investigated for racism. Let's not pretend they are whiter than white.
I get that mate, I am too.
I just don't get why people think being part of the problem helps. But meh, nothing is changing anyway, especially within Labour, so we might as well get used to this clusterfeck.
Sick of this shit. Every party will have muppets, like every football club has muppets. No party will ever be saintly, it's impossible as there will always be extremists who take it too far. Brexit played on fear and hatred of foreign people, the Tories pushed this angle in the media. Name me one example of Labour or Remain pushing it too far and promoting racism.
I'd wait for the official report from the Equality and Human Rights Commission investigation into the Labour party. That should answer some of these questions.
Because of ideology or because you can't have higher growth with higher tax rates? We've been sitting on lower tax rates than that for a while without higher rates of growth.
Most people in this country do not fear or hate foreigners, but believe the high levels of immigration since the early 000s has had a negative impact on life in the UK. If people keep calling it fear or hatred, they won't understand it.
Ha, we'd never take him.
As for being unionists, the Tories are clearly willing to sell NI up the river in order to "achieve" Brexit - Scotland need to devise some reason that it'd be beneficial for the Tories to be willing to cut them loose. As it stands, by denying Scottish independence they look strong, and their ~55 seats are largely irrelevant in Westminster.
SNP have gained seats but they're in a far worse position than they would have been had Labour managed to cobble together a coalition/C&S government with them, irrespective of the number of seats they'd have had in that scenario.
Because you won't have higher growth with higher tax rates. We did have higher rates of growth once taxes were cut right through the 80s, 90s, and 00s until the financial crisis. Growth has been slow since then because we haven't recovered yet, and we should have done more to make that recovery quicker.
Well I worked for a company in Birmingham and it was mostly middle/working class and I can tell you right now, the majority of the people employed there used racist language and that was from people of my generation and older.
Nope. Disagree fundmentally with this statement. My mother used to say she was frightened of muslims and would actively turn around and avoid them on the street. It's a big issue in the Midlands.
Other than getting higher growth when the top tax rate was 60% than during the majority of the times you just mentioned?
But do you really think with this attitude you get your message across? Feck the Tories, evil poor hating cnuts, you deserve everything that’s coming to you (blah blah blah) - it’s actually laughable.
what you don’t seem to understand, is that whatever you put inside this wrapper of hate and resentment doesn’t get heard because you can’t articulate it through all the hate that you are spouting.
All that happens is you get ignored, and rational minded people (who you want to bring over to the Labour Party, or indeed keep to gain power), stay silent and don’t engage with you - because your immediate stance is “you evil bastard, your guilty of voting in this government, you baby killer”.
Corbyn is a genuine man, not a leader (and we all know this), but it’s his following, and the likes of yourself that are deluded into this entrenched thinking that actually alienates the very people you need.
Or if your happy just being a noisy protest party, and winning on Twitter - carry on
phil Wilson, the former labour mp who lost sedgefield (Blair’s former stronghold) twitted this:
‘leadership to blame Brexit for the result is mendacious nonsense. Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership was a bigger problem. To say otherwise is delusional. The Party’s leadership went down like a lead balloon on the doorstep. Labour’s leadership needs to take responsibility.’
the guardian have ran a decent article on the5 reasons labour lost too.
remain voters didn’t come out and back Corbyn did they? It simply not true that this is just brexit.
Now on a singular level some of the plans weren’t bad but together Corbyn plans were utter insanity! so, incredibly big, massive massive spending but also massive change that all at once. anyone that sat anywhere near the middle ground of politics (which is where Tory went after) saw it for what it was, whichwas utter nonsense. Undeliverable dreamers. Corbyn himself ruined labour imo.
I was criticised on here for saying I’d vote Tory but there was just no way I could bring myself to vote for this incarnation of labour. It was bullshit!
Excuse me? You should perhaps read my posts thank you before saying i'm one of them, i've actively critised Corbyn for years. I don't even have a Twitter profile and I actively defended you in this very thread a few hours ago.
All you're doing right now is attacking anyone who's remotely negative.
Because it was reduced from 83%. You are using a static number to evaluate something dynamic, which is growth. If you reduce from 83% to 60%, as Thatcher did in 79, you unlock growth.
Come on man there’s no way you believe that. You’re quite clearly politically informed, so I doubt I need to link you to comments made by our current Conservative prime minister. You’ll know plenty of the ones I mean
Hmm... have you actually looked at historical data on immigration, population numbers and the UK?
The UK has a very high population for it’s size and has had it for a long time, it’s the price you pay for a having a massive Empire and winning 2 World Wars.
Immigration since the 00’s has barely affected anything, that’s just a bullshit excuse.
I live in Hereford and its exactly the same here chap
Weirdly a lot of them seemed to have ended up at the very top of the party (Johnson, Cameron, Osbourne) but there aren't that many left. No where near as many as there used to be. You can see that by the make up of the shadow cabinet, they may have come from middle class families but most of them aren't toffs.
I don’t deny that at all. But with the Tory majority and the focus on Brexit, the government won’t be going near the question of independence for a long time
I think actually it’s the DUP that sold themselves up the river. They had the keys to the castle, and should have agreed May’s deal. They are the biggest losers in this election, and it lies squarely with them.
The relationship between the SNP and the Tories could be interesting, but Sturgeon needs to compromise. If she drops the inderef2 stance and pushes for more devolved power, I think she will get it, there are compromises to be made where both parties win. She sure as sh!t is not getting a referendum any time soon.
The UK population has grown just 10m since 1965 @Fiskey, the very idea that this 10m and immigration is the negative impact is stupidity at it’s finest.
Baby boom came, people live much longer, people own more cars, couples take more jobs than before.
The idea it’s immigration at fault is in itself racist.
The way it works in the sanctuary of trickle down economics is this:
- If growth is high, lower taxes so it will be even higher.
- If growth is low, it's because taxes are too high so they need to be lowered.
- If state revenue is low, it is because taxes are high and people avoid paying them so lower taxes.
- If state revenue is high, then the state doesn't really need all that money so taxes should be lowered.
- If there is a recession, cut all spending and bail out businesses. Oh and lower taxes because, well, you have to, don't you?
Literally just look at the data, it's really clear.
Hi - happy to pull back when wrong! Apologies. Lots of posts, and clearly got the wrong end of the stick here.
My point remains about the negativity - buy it’s the way it’s presented. I’ve had my brother in law spouting on Facebook for weeks Complete bile about Tories aimed at me and my family, I even went to see a band last week, and their singer said he hoped someone would go out and kill Boris, and the day he dies he would celebrate.
Now both probably have genuine points to discuss, but just get ignored because of the way it’s presented.
I apologise if I mistook you for someone who does the same.
I love debate, but feel there’s not been enough of it because of the way parts of the electorate present themselves. That’s why the vast majority of Tory voters were silent before the election.
Most likely with Brexit taking place prices will rise at least short term, not sure we can avoid that. I doubt Boris will care about reducing holidays for people, that certainly won't go down well! GPs are a nightmare, luckily I'm young enough that I don't have to visit too often, usually I can get an appointment within about 2 weeks but what the hell is the point in that if it is urgent!
I voted Labour in an attempt to reduce any Tory majority. Doesn't seem to have done much good although my seat did remain labour.
You're pretty much saying there is no way of knowing then, can't use 50s+60s because of WW2, can't use 70s because of IMF, can't use 80s because of the tax cut (growth was 4.2% in 1978 at highest rate of 83% btw) and from that point on there is no tax raise until after we run into financial problems. There is no signifiant growth in these years though, so how exactly can you be sure that raising taxes doesn't help with growth?
There is clear evidence that lowering taxes increases growth in the short term, and that is what we were talking about. Obviously the level at which to tax an economy is a very complicated question.
The Wales vote is a bit misleading.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....9/sep/22/english-people-wales-brexit-research
There's enough international evidence, you don't have to focus purely on UK. I'm not saying growth has to be 4% all the time, I'm very in favour of Keynesian economics. GDP growth is an imperfect metric for deciphering whether an economy is doing well for its population or not.
Housing, depression of wages, pressure on NHS etc.
Well, another way of looking at it is this; the Tories never stood a chance in the North previously so they would probably prefer on focus on areas where they could get votes. Now that they've snagged them they might want to try and keep them. So it'll be steak and blowjob day every day from now on.
Or whatever the Northern equivalent of steak is.......raw pigs cock?!?!
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