UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[Sweet Square]

So the reason you'll be leaving the EU in three months time will be because of the Labour result in 2019?

Still a British citizen aren't you ?

But really are you voting Lib Dem ?

No I didn't, I addressed it. I just don't consider what Corbyn did remotely worthy of some great level of praise. He lost to May but not so badly, mostly because of her own inability to act like a human being. What more can be said about that? May bot malfunctioned throughout the entire campaign and repeatedly shot herself in the foot with a grenade launcher. I'm not about to give Jeremy a round of applause for not losing *too* badly, nor am I about to celebrate the labour party now just being an inconvenience to Tory brexit plans, rather than a legitimate alternative of government.
.

Fair enough mate I didn't know you were just shit posting for a laugh

That model isn't workable, but the current model (which is failing utterly) is the right one? Corbyn's the most unpopular opposition leader in my lifetime. You're not going to win elections if you're led by a man who a large portion of the public thinks is a fecking cretin. It's actually even more simple than getting a new manager in, if the guy who is head of your party is roundly pretty despised by the country you want to win an election in, you're going to have trouble .. wait for it .. winning elections.

So hold on whats your model then(Or is this just another shit post ?)

The current model with the Labour is 21st century social democracy(Which could possibly lead to socialism) to tackle the climate crisis, rising inequality, fighting off the rising far right nationalists, stopping the rise of authoritarian capitalism and much more. Its not Corbyn being leader until the end of time.

Again we are talking politics not who's the next United manager.

Poch

 

[DOTA]

Can Trump please make these LBC phone calls a weekly thing?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Fair enough mate I didn't know you were just shit posting for a laugh


So hold on whats your model then(Or is this just another shit post ?)

The current model with the Labour is 21st century social democracy(Which could possibly lead to socialism) to tackle the climate crisis, rising inequality, fighting off the rising far right nationalists, stopping the rise of authoritarian capitalism and much more. Its not Corbyn being leader until the end of time.

Again we are talking politics not who's the next United manager.

Poch

Yeah I forgot we’re meant to give high praise to the main leader of the opposition for losing comfortably. When’s the DVD out?


‘Which could possibly lead to socialism’ being a pretty big humongous hole in that, since there’s no real appetite for actual socialism in the UK, and thank god for that. And regardless of which leader steps forth, though I imagine few could do worse than Corbyn so at least the bar is set low, labour won’t win any election if a socialist Britain is on the agenda.

Whatever my model would be (certainly closer to Blair than the current Labour Party) it certainly wouldn’t be one which pushes a dead, failed ideology, one which the country has no appetite for. Social democracy? Sure, but if the end goal is a socialist government then I and many others will resist that at any possible opportunity.

 

[2 man midfield]

I’ll be voting labour as usual, but I don’t really feel massively enamoured with any of the parties. The Tories will win again, and nothing will change. The only person this helps is Boris.

 

[Relevated]

I’ll be voting labour as usual, but I don’t really feel massively enamoured with any of the parties. The Tories will win again, and nothing will change. The only person this helps is Boris.

Is there even a single publication that isn't against corbyn? It's really disgraceful

 

[2 man midfield]

Is there even a single publication that isn't against corbyn? It's really disgraceful

Yep. “In the interest of balance” my arse.

 

[Sweet Square]

Whatever my model would be (certainly closer to Blair than the current Labour Party) it certainly wouldn’t be one which pushes a dead, failed ideology, one which the country has no appetite for. Social democracy? Sure, but if the end goal is a socialist government then I and many others will resist that at any possible opportunity.

So I was right its just pure shit posting(Blair wasn't anywhere near social democracy). Cheers mate once again you wasted both our time. Its a real talent you've got.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

So I was right its just pure shit posting(Blair wasn't anywhere near social democracy). Cheers mate once again you wasted both our time. Its a real talent you've got.

I’d rather have something which ‘isn’t near social democracy’ than something which is outright socialism. That doesn’t mean I think Blair’s government was perfect, but certainly it was preferable to what you’re proposing.

Now run off, read some more marx, kiss your Corbyn poster and have good dreams about the fiction of a socialist United Kingdom.

 

[Sweet Square]

I’d rather have something which ‘isn’t near social democracy’ than something which is outright socialism. That doesn’t mean I think Blair’s government was perfect, but certainly it was preferable to what you’re proposing.

Do you even know what you want ? Who are voting for ?

read some more marx

Your making that seem like its somehow a enjoyable thing to do.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Do you even know what you want ? Who are voting for ?


Your making that seem like its somehow a enjoy thing to do.

Do any of us know what we truly want?!

In all seriousness, I currently consider myself a floating voter. You couldn’t force me to vote for Labour under Corbyn, the Tories under Johnson are pretty vile, and I never really know what the Lib Dem’s represent. None of the current parties really appeal to me in any meaningful way, nor any of the leaders.

I’ll probably end up throwing a vote at the Lib Dem’s, who knows.

 

[711]

Maybe, in a proportional representation system. But in reality, voting like that in FPTP can bring in exactly the opposite type of government policies you want.

You cited Preston specifically, not me. There is no doubt who will win Preston.

 

[Kinsella]

Interesting how people on this forum are so pro Labour according to the poll.

It's frustrating in a way because the consequence of the unbalanced political nature of the forum is that very little actual debate takes place in these mega threads.

The single issue threads tend to be much better for that imo.

 

[SteveJ]

Take a look at the replies:

https://mobile.twitter.com/joswinson/status/1189913689601794048

 

[Cheesy]

We should have a referendum on banning Lib Dem usage of bar charts.

 

[NWRed]

If that's supposed to be your response to me I've already left for Lib Dems. The point is Labour has no hope of gaining power without people like me voting for them, so you can either be a vocal protest movement, chaining yourself to railings and making lots of noise but never changing anything, or you can be pragmatic, treat other people with similar but more moderate views than yours with respect and work with them to change everyone's lives for the better.

 

[fergieisold]

Yes, the record levels of homelessness are nothing to do with 10 years of Tory policy.
People just can't fit in the normal fabric of society.

Keep kidding yourself.

https://news.sky.com/story/homeless...s-double-in-five-years-charity-warns-11589693

Homelessness is low vs historical levels. I'd agree Tory policy has contributed to recent rises, but will they correct this trend? I believe they will given time.

Why do you believe that?

Low tax, record numbers in jobs, the constant message about making something of yourself. I just identify more with that mantra than someone like Corbyn for example.

Actually, if you're voting Tory you are contributing to the problem. But with this thought process you are also absolving yourself from blame. Nice.

Oh here we go. 'You're part of the problem'. Classic SJW approach.

 

[esmufc07]

If that's supposed to be your response to me I've already left for Lib Dems. The point is Labour has no hope of gaining power without people like me voting for them, so you can either be a vocal protest movement, chaining yourself to railings and making lots of noise but never changing anything, or you can be pragmatic, treat other people with similar but more moderate views than yours with respect and work with them to change everyone's lives for the better.

That’s far too crawly bum lick.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

I'm not sure of your point. For lots of reasons particular teams fanbases will have particular political skews.
I'll bet Liverpool, Utd and Celtic will be left in general over Chelsea, West Ham and Rangers.
That may be the reason for the Caf's left leaning party over-representation. I can't think of a better reason but I could be wrong.

Veiled attempt at a joke. Since all United fans are presumably from London, I said about all the West Ham fans from Manchester

East London is predominantly Labour while west tends to vote Conservative. However in the last election, Kensington which you’d think is the heart of Conservative London voted Labour in by just 20 votes. I expect Labour will increase its margin there this election with the Lib Dems running ex Tory Sam Gymiah there. They may even have a chance in Chelsea and Fulham considering the MP there has been strongly backing the implementation of Brexit.

London as a whole is very much a red city and Labour holds around 70% of the constituencies. I predict it’ll increase this election.

 

[Untied]

I’d rather have something which ‘isn’t near social democracy’ than something which is outright socialism. That doesn’t mean I think Blair’s government was perfect, but certainly it was preferable to what you’re proposing.

Now run off, read some more marx, kiss your Corbyn poster and have good dreams about the fiction of a socialist United Kingdom.

social democratic capitalism is going to make large scale human civilisation untenable within this century

 

[Drifter]

If that's supposed to be your response to me I've already left for Lib Dems. The point is Labour has no hope of gaining power without people like me voting for them, so you can either be a vocal protest movement, chaining yourself to railings and making lots of noise but never changing anything, or you can be pragmatic, treat other people with similar but more moderate views than yours with respect and work with them to change everyone's lives for the better.

And how did that work out.

 

[NWRed]

And how did that work out.

3 straight GE wins broken by a world wide banking crisis.

 

[Mogget]

Perhaps it's all part of a cunning plan to make Abbott look semi competent

It's incredible you're criticising Abbott after your post on tax a few pages ago.

 

[NWRed]

They abandoned the working class.

How?

a little austerity for the poor never hurt anyone.

Austerity?

@Drifter

@Red Dreams

 

[EwanI Ted]

Homelessness is low vs historical levels. I'd agree Tory policy has contributed to recent rises, but will they correct this trend? I believe they will given time.

No reason to think that. The reason that homelessness fell so dramatically between 2003 and 2010 was down to something called the supporting people programme, which was a targeted, strategic and costly programme of support that transformed the homelessness sector. In that 7 years homelessness fell by about 75%. Indeed that period between 2003 and 2010 is pretty much the only time in the last 40 years when homelessness has fallen rather than risen. In 2010 the SP programme was both cut and de-ring fenced and homelessness started to rise. Since then its more than doubled and is set to have tripled with the next two years. The Tories have put both money and supporting legislation into homelessness over the last two years and I expect to see some improvements in the numbers, but not much more than a slowing down of the growth and maybe a reduction in rough sleeping, rather than any reversal of the overall levels of homelessness.

 

[Smores]

How have the spectator allowed that to be published? How?

 

[Mogget]

It's frustrating in a way because the consequence of the unbalanced political nature of the forum is that very little actual debate takes place in these mega threads.

The single issue threads tend to be much better for that imo.

I've seen this criticism of the caf thrown around a few times so I thought I'd check out the opposite side of the political spectrum for some balance and joined a car forum which is majority Tory and Leave. The views in their politics forum were actually vile. The casual racism which isn't called out by anyone, a hundred page long thread of old men gleefully insulting a teenager (Greta), and the general lack of empathy for anyone who isn't a white male. Give me a left wing echo chamber any day.

 

[NWRed]

No reason to think that. The reason that homelessness fell so dramatically between 2003 and 2010 was down to something called the supporting people programme, which was a targeted, strategic and costly programme of support that transformed the homelessness sector. In that 7 years homelessness fell by about 75%. Indeed that period between 2003 and 2010 is pretty much the only time in the last 40 years when homelessness has fallen rather than risen. In 2010 the SP programme was both cut and de-ring fenced and homelessness started to rise. Since then its more than doubled and is set to have tripled with the next two years. The Tories have put both money and supporting legislation into homelessness over the last two years and I expect to see some improvements in the numbers, but not much more than a slowing down of the growth and maybe a reduction in rough sleeping, rather than any reversal of the overall levels of homelessness.

Fecking Blairites again with their Torylite policies.

 

[fergieisold]

No reason to think that. The reason that homelessness fell so dramatically between 2003 and 2010 was down to something called the supporting people programme, which was a targeted, strategic and costly programme of support that transformed the homelessness sector. In that 7 years homelessness fell by about 75%. Indeed that period between 2003 and 2010 is pretty much the only time in the last 40 years when homelessness has fallen rather than risen. In 2010 the SP programme was both cut and de-ring fenced and homelessness started to rise. Since then its more than doubled and is set to have tripled with the next two years. The Tories have put both money and supporting legislation into homelessness over the last two years and I expect to see some improvements in the numbers, but not much more than a slowing down of the growth and maybe a reduction in rough sleeping, rather than any reversal of the overall levels of homelessness.

Thanks, some interesting information. Maybe I was reading the wrong metrics for homelessness. I did see some but the definition was not 'rough sleepers' but legally recognised 'homeless'.

 

[Wumminator]

I honestly think that there are so many idiots who don’t understand tax income brackets at all. Doesn’t help that Kanye just released a new album with the same nonsense parroted.

 

[Fiskey]

It's frustrating in a way because the consequence of the unbalanced political nature of the forum is that very little actual debate takes place in these mega threads.

The single issue threads tend to be much better for that imo.

I agree with you. Like @SquishyMcSquish I consider myself a floating voter, I liked Blair, would've voted for David Milliband, quite liked Clegg and Cameron. I just don't think Labour or Lib Dems are in anyway electable at the moment, so will be voting Conservative for the first time.

(I was a LibDem member until they became the remain party and dropped any pretence of being Liberal or Democratic.)

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Homelessness is low vs historical levels.

Compared to when? Medieval times?



Amazing what bollocks people will come up with to justify themselves voting Tory.

 

[Drifter]

3 straight GE wins broken by a world wide banking crisis.

How?



Austerity?

When Blair came in ,he saw the future of New Labour as being the party of the professional Middle Class, University educated. The bet he took on a rising Middle Class paid of for him with 3 wins but it also showed the huge decline in working class membership in a party that they did not recognize anymore.

 

[Fiskey]

When Blair came in ,he saw the future of New Labour as being the party of the professional Middle Class, University educated. The bet he took on a rising Middle Class paid of for him with 3 wins but it also showed the huge decline in working class membership in a party that they did not recognize anymore.

But you can't classify most of this country as what would've traditionally been classed working class. The 'working class' aren't enough to build an electoral coalition.

 

[Smores]

Yet but Labour might make billionaires lose some pocket change the monsters.

God they might even reverse those corporate tax cuts which obviously when they were cut became the unquestionable right level.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Veiled attempt at a joke. Since all United fans are presumably from London, I said about all the West Ham fans from Manchester

East London is predominantly Labour while west tends to vote Conservative. However in the last election, Kensington which you’d think is the heart of Conservative London voted Labour in by just 20 votes. I expect Labour will increase its margin there this election with the Lib Dems running ex Tory Sam Gymiah there. They may even have a chance in Chelsea and Fulham considering the MP there has been strongly backing the implementation of Brexit.

London as a whole is very much a red city and Labour holds around 70% of the constituencies. I predict it’ll increase this election.

Absolutely London is primarily left. It's just a football team trend.

 

[fergieisold]

Compared to when? Medieval times?



Amazing what bollocks people will come up with to justify themselves voting Tory.

As I said I was looking at the wrong metric. Rough Sleeping should be the term used really. https://fullfact.org/economy/homelessness-england/ There's no reliable estimates historically for rough sleeping according to this page.

Quit with the bullshit 'feck the tory' mantra too. It's a complete myth that Conservatives are some sort of horrific breed of human and it makes you look like a fool.

 

[Wumminator]

If you want to know why this forum leans left, you only need to look at any internet space that inherently leans right. Less intelligent discourse, more thinly veiled racism and a group of people who don’t accept reality. Find me a right leaning forum with anywhere near the level of chat as the current affairs forum and I’ll be amazed.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Oh here we go. 'You're part of the problem'. Classic SJW approach.

Right. This is a WUM isn't it? Nobody actually fecking says that do they? I mean, it's like "PC gone mad".

 

[Fingeredmouse]

It's frustrating in a way because the consequence of the unbalanced political nature of the forum is that very little actual debate takes place in these mega threads.

The single issue threads tend to be much better for that imo.

This thread seems quite debate filled to me.

 

[Smores]

As I said I was looking at the wrong metric. Rough Sleeping should be the term used really. https://fullfact.org/economy/homelessness-england/ There's no reliable estimates historically for rough sleeping according to this page.

Quit with the bullshit 'feck the tory' mantra too. It's a complete myth that Conservatives are some sort of horrific breed of human and it makes you look like a fool.

Yeah your Tory government are lovely people

If i had more time I'd present you a very long list of all the horrible disgusting quotes from Tory MPs but from experience I'm well aware you won't change your mind.
You'll find many in the brexit party that claim they're not horrible either which makes sense because no one wants to admit they support scum bags so they deny it and hide behind other justifications.