UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%
  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%
  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%
  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%
  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%
  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%
  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%
  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%
  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%

  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
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Thanks! Wow - quite brutal. On front page of BBC webpage and assume it will get mass coverage in press tomorrow.

BJs advisors would be mad to let him do it now, it will be a disaster with no time left to recover.

I really hope Labours PR is savvy enough to go to town on this. All gloves off, fcuk ettiqutte and manners: the most savage Sarcasic of all British humour must be deployed in social media to expose BJ for the coward thy he is, and for that reason he cannot be trusted.
Too late. The BBC have already changed the top headline to "Tories promise to deliver brexit and budget in first 100 days".

But some will blame Labour for not being "credible" enough.
 
You obviously haven't read your party's manifesto.

I'm not a Labour voter.

You're right in that I haven't read the manifesto but Corbyn has said numerous times that his plan is to get a sensible deal and put it up against remain and let the people decide on that. Personally I think that's by far the best approach as people voting to Leave will know exactly what it is they're voting for this time.
 
If you don’t mind me asking, what’s your profession?

Probably 'machine learning engineer' is technically closest. Or mindless compulsive gambler. I was at Jane Street (fintech trading) for a couple of years, but prefer modeling stuff to do with current events/law going forwards as it's more interesting [rather than trades] despite its lesser profitability. I collect rare coins which eats most of my income. Keeps me content for now!
 
exactly.

it’s at least 9 months away, and that’s actually assuming labour can renegotiate a brand new deal with the EU in 3 month, and we can all see that’s incredibly unlikely. My guess would be 18 months (although we will never know).

I imagine a labour deal would simply be a Norway+ or something off the shelf but packaged nicely. Put against remain or no deal.
 
did you read my post - I said very clearly I’d prefer him to do the interview.

Understand, not condone is a phrase some of you need to take on board.

My response was based on your word ‘prefer’. It’s not good enough. Unless you own up to being an uneducated and ill informed member of the electorate who will toss a coin before your enter the vote booth.

Instead of calling out Johnson, you’ve provided a lengthy defence on why he should avoid the interview: because Neil or Paxman would give him a rigorous interrogation. What is he hiding??

I really have to say I’m so disappointed in Tory voters. They are as autocratic and smarmy at BJ himself. Which is not how they used to be. Before tories would wipe the floor intellectually vs the left. Nowadays they run from the fight. Pathetic.

I really enjoyed downloading all of this onto our Conservative candidate who knocked on my door earlier today :lol: But only after pretending to be pro Tory for 10 Mins so i could waste as much time of his as possible. Made my day.:lol:
 
I'm not a Labour voter.

You're right in that I haven't read the manifesto but Corbyn has said numerous times that his plan is to get a sensible deal and put it up against remain and let the people decide on that. Personally I think that's by far the best approach as people voting to Leave will know exactly what it is they're voting for this time.

His plan should be to get a sensible deal but if you read the manifesto what he is proposing is not sensible/possible.

Furthermore we have a constant stream of Labour voters on here claiming that if he can't get a deal the fallback is Johnson's deal whereas in the manifesto it explicitly says "We will rip up the deeply flawed deal negotiated by Boris Johnson. "

So they haven't understood Corbyn's plan and have no idea what happens if he doesn't get a deal which he won't if he sticks to the manifesto.
 
Making out not being able to get a GP appointment is because of foreigners :wenger:

My GP is still back home in a village with barely anyone that isn't English, and it's a 4 week wait to book in.
Your mum's STDs still keeping them busy.
 
Too late. The BBC have already changed the top headline to "Tories promise to deliver brexit and budget in first 100 days".

But some will blame Labour for not being "credible" enough.
Was a decent length story on BBC news at 10pm.

But it’s upto labour to use their creativity and media monies to go to town on this. Can’t blame anyone else if they can’t land this to win them many undecided votes.
 
exactly.

it’s at least 9 months away, and that’s actually assuming labour can renegotiate a brand new deal with the EU in 3 month, and we can all see that’s incredibly unlikely. My guess would be 18 months (although we will never know).

I think the contents of whatever deal they would put on the table is far more important than when the referendum would take place and like you said, you guess, so there's no real point in speculating on it or using it against them.

Negotiating with the EU was always going to be difficult for any party given the UK has little leverage. We've seen how much the Tories have fecked it up so I'd be interested to see how Labour fared.
 
I think the contents of whatever deal they would put on the table is far more important than when the referendum would take place and like you said, you guess, so there's no real point in speculating on it or using it against them.

Negotiating with the EU was always going to be difficult for any party given the UK has little leverage. We've seen how much the Tories have fecked it up so I'd be interested to see how Labour fared.

so I can’t use my knowledge to make a prediction? Of course this makes up part of my decision making - another 18 months of uncertainty is a factor.

you are right in that the Tories negotiations were a disaster, and labour would be no better.

However, this is one of those hypertheticals that’s pointless in arguing about as labour wont have an opportunity to negotiate.
 
so I can’t use my knowledge to make a prediction? Of course this makes up part of my decision making - another 18 months of uncertainty is a factor.

you are right in that the Tories negotiations were a disaster, and labour would be no better.

However, this is one of those hypertheticals that’s pointless in arguing about as labour wont have an opportunity to negotiate.

It isn't knowledge though. It's literally just opinion. They state in their manifesto that it'll be within 6 months.
 
Probably 'machine learning engineer' is technically closest. Or mindless compulsive gambler. I was at Jane Street (fintech trading) for a couple of years, but prefer modeling stuff to do with current events/law going forwards as it's more interesting [rather than trades] despite its lesser profitability. I collect rare coins which eats most of my income. Keeps me content for now!
I had a feeling I’d get an interesting answer and you didn’t disappoint :)
 
Unlike the Tories, Labour are not afraid of staying in the customs union and single market, while leaving the political union. This is actually quite a simple deal to negotiate given it is already in place for other European countries, and I strongly suspect Starmer has the basics of it essentially agreed already. So, I have not read the manifesto, but I do not agree with the position that Labour would not be able to negotiate a deal with the EU. I don't think it would win a referendum, though, because Remainers can see the obvious which is that it is better to stay in the EU, and Leavers would say it isn't really leaving properly.

Mind you, many Leave campaigners including Farage level the same accusation at Johnson's deal, and at May's before it, which frankly shows quite clearly that there is no Brexit deal that the leavers as a whole would be happy with.

The real problem with Labour is that although they have a number of sensible policies they are economically illiterate as any of their costings or recent published numbers easily demonstrate.
 
Their plan to pay for their additional spending makes no sense at all. If they increase corporation tax back to the levels they say they would, the big corporations will relocate to Ireland as they can quite easily do resulting in significantly less tax revenue. In the end they would have to raise Income Tax and not just for those earning over 80k. Many of the things they want to re-nationalise I would be pleased with - rail, post services etc. but they seem to be promising a bunch of others too, which are not anything like as broken. Doing all this is hugely expensive and fraught with problems. The plan does not seem realistic.

They need a new leader who can put forward a more balanced and credible plan. At least this election should give us that, albeit probably in opposition.
 
Unlike the Tories, Labour are not afraid of staying in the customs union and single market, while leaving the political union. This is actually quite a simple deal to negotiate given it is already in place for other European countries, and I strongly suspect Starmer has the basics of it essentially agreed already. So, I have not read the manifesto, but I do not agree with the position that Labour would not be able to negotiate a deal with the EU. I don't think it would win a referendum, though, because Remainers can see the obvious which is that it is better to stay in the EU, and Leavers would say it isn't really leaving properly.

Mind you, many Leave campaigners including Farage level the same accusation at Johnson's deal, and at May's before it, which frankly shows quite clearly that there is no Brexit deal that the leavers as a whole would be happy with.

The real problem with Labour is that although they have a number of sensible policies they are economically illiterate as any of their costings or recent published numbers easily demonstrate.

Ahem, they are , and please read it - very few people appear to have read it - and the EU will only negotiate with the UK government. There have been a couple of photo opportunities though.
 
Ahem, they are , and please read it - very few people appear to have read it - and the EU will only negotiate with the UK government. There have been a couple of photo opportunities though.

Can't be arsed. Summarise for me :)

Strongly suspect it is a fudge that says we stay in the customs union but not fully single market... in which case it will end up being staying in the single market to all intents and purposes, meaning I am still right. ;)

They will only negotiate with the UK government, yes, but they have still been talking to Starmer et al. Not about the weather. And any deal that means closer ties and which simplifies the Ireland issue, as staying in the customs union clearly would, should be much easier than the renegotiation Boris just managed in a short period of time. 3 months seems more than enough.
 
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Ahem, they are , and please read it - very few people appear to have read it - and the EU will only negotiate with the UK government. There have been a couple of photo opportunities though.

does this mean that Kier Starmer hasn’t got an alternative deal lined up that’s he’s been negotiating in parallel for the past 2 years ... (scratches chin and is confused)
 
Can't be arsed. Summarise for me :)

Strongly suspect it is a fudge that says we stay in the customs union but not fully single market... in which case it will end up being staying in the single market to all intents and purposes, meaning I am still right. ;)

They will only negotiate with the UK government, yes, but they have still been talking to Starmer et al. Not about the weather.

They will stay in a UK customs union (not the EU customs union) and closely aligned to the single market, so sorry no.

Yes they've politely listened to whatever Labour have said as they did with the DUP, the Tories and the LibDems and the SNP et al and said thank you and have a good day.

But if you really are interested they have devoted pages 89 to 92 to the most important event in the UK's recent history to it so it is only a short read if you wish to
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Real-Change-Labour-Manifesto-2019.pdf
 
They will stay in a UK customs union (not the EU customs union) and closely aligned to the single market, so sorry no.

Yes they've politely listened to whatever Labour have said as they did with the DUP, the Tories and the LibDems and the SNP et al and said thank you and have a good day.

But if you really are interested they have devoted pages 89 to 92 to the most important event in the UK's recent history to it so it is only a short read if you wish to
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Real-Change-Labour-Manifesto-2019.pdf

Thanks for the pointer. I have read it. The principles mentioned are all very well served by a Norway style deal. That's what it would be. It says a UK Customs Union, same rules for N Ireland (and Scotland), preserving the union, but it does not at all preclude achieving this by simply staying in the EU's one.

Close alignment with the single market? Stay in it. Pay the fees as it makes sense to do. Brexit in name only. Actually perfectly sensible.

If you think it says something else I would suggest you are misreading the very careful wording of it.
 
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I have read it. The principles mentioned are all very well served by a Norway style deal. That's what it would be. It says a UK Customs Union but does not at all preclude simply staying in the EU's one.

Close alignment with the single market? Stay in it. Pay the fees as it makes sense to do. Brexit in name only. Actually perfectly sensible.

A Norway style deal means staying in the single market not aligning to it in which case you don't need a trade deal. Brexit in name only is not sensible as it just means the UK losing its vote and Leavers would never accept it. There's a big difference between a UK CU and an EU CU. It's phrased like this to try to please both leave and remain.

I can imagine the discussions now if a Brexit in name only was the intention.
What can we do for you Mr Corbyn, says the EU. Well Mr Barnier, I would like to remain but lose our vote please. That's fine with us but you'll have to ask Norway first if they accept .
 
A Norway style deal means staying in the single market not aligning to it in which case you don't need a trade deal. Brexit in name only is not sensible as it just means the UK losing its vote and Leavers would never accept it. There's a big difference between a UK CU and an EU CU. It's phrased like this to try to please both leave and remain.

I can imagine the discussions now if a Brexit in name only was the intention.
What can we do for you Mr Corbyn, says the EU. Well Mr Barnier, I would like to remain but lose our vote please. That's fine with us but you'll have to ask Norway first if they accept .

Staying in the single market is aligning with it. Staying in the customs union provides a UK customs union. The words have been chosen carefully I agree... but the deal will clearly be like Norway.

I agree with you that it wouldn't be voted for, and in my opinion is not sensible either because it is clearly better just to stay a member, but it still makes more sense than either May or Johnson's deal. The former is similar but gives up many advantages of the EU while giving no scope for any other trade deals, not that we would get good ones anyway, and the latter will lead to the breakup of the Union and to serious issues in Ireland. And quite possibly No Deal with its accompanied needless job losses and severe economic impact for many years.

I don't understand your point about Norway though. Not sure you do either tbh.
 
Conservative candidates not appearing at these events seems to really widespread, for some reason.
 
The guy doesn't turn up for the birthdays of half his children so why the feck do people think he'll turn up to a debate?
 
Labour would be mad not to take this opportunity to sling some shit in the Tories direction. The right wing press can't get in the way of this now that it's on the front page of the biggest broadcaster in the country, and all over social media.

This is Labour's big moment with just a week to go to take control of the narrative and edge closer to the Tories in the polls... Watch them feck it up...
Absolute best case here is that Corbyn smashes the debate tonight and brings it up constantly.

Then in response Johnson does the interview and gets absolutely ripped apart.
 
Absolute best case here is that Corbyn smashes the debate tonight and brings it up constantly.

Then in response Johnson does the interview and gets absolutely ripped apart.
After every question I'd point it out that we was unable to here Tory plans.
 
He said that the Beeb had these interviews because they were told everyone would do them, and in a democracy our politicians should be held accountable.
Listed off the questions that he said the people needed answers to; how could people trust him when even those closest to him say they cannot, to explain his numbers for the police, NHS etc and how they merely brought us back to pre-austerity figures, evidence to his claims that he was against austerity.

The big kicker was at the end when he said that Boris as PM will be expected to go face to face with Trump, Putin, Xi, and get he won't do it face to face with him for just 30 minutes.

He should of just done it, bad move politically as it probably wouldn’t have been as bad as Corbyn, now he comes across arrogant and or chickenshit
 
Was a decent length story on BBC news at 10pm.

But it’s upto labour to use their creativity and media monies to go to town on this. Can’t blame anyone else if they can’t land this to win them many undecided votes.

I saw news at 10. They couldn't ignore a BBC journalist empty chairing the PM could they. They covered it but didn't play any of Andrew Neil's probing questions. Only that "all other leaders have done this. Why hasn't Boris."

It's not about blame in the absolute sense. It's about there being a wide number of contributing factors which make up a campaigns success or failure. Yes party advisors and strategy is part of it, but so is the media coverage- type and frequency and a myriad of other factors from online campaigning to individual MP contributions (see how JRM went missing after his Grenfell comments).
 
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