UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%

  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%

  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%

  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%

  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%

  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%

  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%

  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%
  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
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Fluctuation0161 said:
Oh sorry. I didn't realise you were speaking on behalf of millions. It always seems like you're only talking for yourself. Funny that. And you think Boris Johnson is a credible leader? Another funny.

Of course Labours position is clear. A confirmatory vote: remain or leave with a deal. But Corbyn will stay neutral in an attempt to unite the country as much as possible. Why does it matter to you what position he takes? 52% didn't follow Cameron in 2016 so it seems people can make their own minds up.

Ultimately it is the only way to give the people a vote on the reality of Brexit. Not the multiple impossible Brexits which 52% of people voted for in 2016. The real concrete options for leave.

Did you know you were voting for a Boris type deal back in 2016 ? You seem to want clear options. Did you criticise the leave campaign for a lack of clarity on their brexit plan? Or do you only do that when it suits your agenda.

What do you like about the Boris deal? Which is even worse than Theresa May's deal and threatens peace in Northern Ireland.

Not only have the reality of the brexit options changed. The population has changed. Since 2016 many more young people have become eligible to vote. As it will effect them the longest shouldn't they get a voice now?

Back in 2017 Theresa May didn't win either. She had to bribe the DUP £1.5bn to keep her in power. Part of that magic money tree and Tory stability hey?
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have you seen the polls?

I’m not arguing the Boris and the Tories are a great party to vote for - but they are the least worst option, and a better option then... this labour option.

That’s what you seriously don’t get! You won’t find me trying to persuade anyone of the virtues of the Tory party, I’m not knocking on anyone’s doors - but if you ask me what’s best for the country, it is categorically not a labour led government. Of course the polls may be wrong, but if there is a Tory majority, who are you going to blame? Is it just the evil Tory voters or the Labour Party for ensuring that not enough of the middle ground will vote for them?

Labour will be worse for this country than what’s being presented by the Tories. That’s astonishing. But of course, it must all be down to Rupert Murdock and all the brainwashing that’s been going on.
 
Berbaclass said:
Anyone watching Neil v Farage?
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Making out not being able to get a GP appointment is because of foreigners :wenger:

My GP is still back home in a village with barely anyone that isn't English, and it's a 4 week wait to book in.
 
Berbaclass said:
Anyone watching Neil v Farage?
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it is on in the background, so not 100%!tuned in, but Farage is a good politician and managing the interview well. He believes in what he says unlike Swinson and Corbyn. The same applies for Sturgeon. I’m in no way talking about policies or ideologies, but Farage and Sturgeon are far better politicians than any of the other leaders.
 
Fiskey said:
Do you really think so? The reign of terror, the political instability that ended with the Franco - Prussian wars and two world wars? I'll have to disagree.
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The reign of terror was bad, but not as bad as it's been made out to be. Or rather, the terror itself was as bad, but the scale was far less than people probably imagine. Particularly if they compare it to something like Stalin's terror.

I don't really see how the French Revolution can be blamed for political instability and the Franco-Prussian war, when it was the decidedly conservative (or even reactionary) Congress of Vienna which set the stage for the post-Napoleonic world. And the decidedly conservative von Bismarck who engineered the German wars of unification which culminated in the Franco-Prussian war, fighting against the also decidedly conservative Emperor Napoleon III. Liberal, social and democratic ideas had nothing to do with that particular event. That one was on the conservative/authoritarian order in Europe.

Unless you're blaming the French Revolution for instilling a sense of nation and self-determination on Europe, which lead to increasing calls for autonomy and independence from states like Austria (later Austria-Hungary) and the Ottoman Empire. In which case... yeah. The fall of the respressive, bloated Dual Monarchy was not a tragedy on any level.

I feel I may have taken this thread just a smidge off topic here, I'm sorry Uncle Grinner.
 
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ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
it is on in the background, so not 100%!tuned in, but Farage is a good politician and managing the interview well. He believes in what he says unlike Swinson and Corbyn. The same applies for Sturgeon. I’m in no way talking about policies or ideologies, but Farage and Sturgeon are far better politicians than any of the other leaders.
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Hes like a petulant child. He's rubbish.
 
nimic said:
The reign of terror was bad, but not as bad as it's been made out to be. Or rather, the terror itself was as bad, but the scale was far less than people probably imagine. Particularly if they compare it to something like Stalin's terror.

I don't really see how the French Revolution can be blamed for political instability and the Franco-Prussian war, when it was the decidedly conservative (or even reactionary) Congress of Vienna which set the stage for the post-Napoleonic world. And the decidedly conservative von Bismarck who engineered the German wars of unification which culminated in the Franco-Prussian war, fighting against the also decidedly conservative Emperor Napoleon III. Liberal, social and democratic ideas had nothing to do with that particular event. That one was on the conservative/authoritarian order in Europe.

Unless you're blaming the French Revolution for instilling a sense of nation on Europe, which lead to increasing calls for autonomy and independence from states like Austria (later Austria-Hungary) and the Ottoman Empire. In which case... yeah. The fall of the respressive, bloated Dual Monarchy was not a tragedy on any level.
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I've been told off for taking the thread off context so won't do so again, but I agree with your last sentence.
 
Fiskey said:
I've been told off for taking the thread off context so won't do so again, but I agree with your last sentence.
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Yeah, I realized it doesn't take much for me to push a thread wildly off-topic at the mere mention of history. Let's just part amicably, united in our disdain of Austria-Hungary. As one does.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
have you seen the polls?

I’m not arguing the Boris and the Tories are a great party to vote for - but they are the least worst option, and a better option then... this labour option.

That’s what you seriously don’t get! You won’t find me trying to persuade anyone of the virtues of the Tory party, I’m not knocking on anyone’s doors - but if you ask me what’s best for the country, it is categorically not a labour led government. Of course the polls may be wrong, but if there is a Tory majority, who are you going to blame? Is it just the evil Tory voters or the Labour Party for ensuring that not enough of the middle ground will vote for them?

Labour will be worse for this country than what’s being presented by the Tories. That’s astonishing. But of course, it must all be down to Rupert Murdock and all the brainwashing that’s been going on.
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There is no way the Tories get 50% plus of the vote. So there is no real Tory majority, just a divided opposition and a dysfunctional electoral system cynically played by Cummings.

I also disagree that Labour would be worse. I am not a Corbyn fan by any means because I don’t think he is leadership material but some things would improve under him and the worse that would happen is more public debt and a weaker pound (maybe not even that if Brexit is reversed). Johnson, on the other hand, is a truly amoral, nasty piece of work. With a working majority, he’d have the same sense of responsibility towards the ordinary people who voted for him as he had the for the numerous women he knocked up along his rake’s progress.
 
Best result is a hung parliament. Don't want any of these clowns to fully implement their ideas.

Would take Liberal, or Labour policy on "Brexit", what's being proposed in the Tory WA is nothing like independence what was argued for in 2016, in fact it's leading to a worse version of simply remaining & breaking the union up, put it to a confirmatory vote, or pull the plug.

Surely all the parties can agree to fund the NHS, Police & justice system, schools and other public services etc properly? They all pretty much agree more £££ needed. I'd like to see public sector pay structures flattened as well, less for those at the top, and more for the many at the bottom providing the actual services to us.

Would like the Brexit party policy of scrapping the BBC licence fee, do we really need the BBC in present form? Cut the corporation down 95%.

Don't want any tax increases, per the conservatives. Presumably if no one has a majority, will be hard to agree any?

Don't really want anything else changed in the country, all is good as is except those few points.
 
MoskvaRed said:
There is no way the Tories get 50% plus of the vote. So there is no real Tory majority, just a divided opposition and a dysfunctional electoral system cynically played by Cummings.

I also disagree that Labour would be worse. I am not a Corbyn fan by any means because I don’t think he is leadership material but some things would improve under him and the worse that would happen is more public debt and a weaker pound (maybe not even that if Brexit is reversed). Johnson, on the other hand, is a truly amoral, nasty piece of work. With a working majority, he’d have the same sense of responsibility towards the ordinary people who voted for him as he had the for the numerous women he knocked up along his rake’s progress.
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you realise what I meant as a majority - the majority of MPs. What are claiming, some sort of moral high ground - the no of votes doesn’t matter in the aggregate, just the number of seats. Pointless post.
 
nimic said:
Yeah, I realized it doesn't take much for me to push a thread wildly off-topic at the mere mention of history. Let's just part amicably, united in our disdain of Austria-Hungary. As one does.
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I'm interested in the discussion...just not in this thread. It's got a lot going on as it is.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
have you seen the polls?

I’m not arguing the Boris and the Tories are a great party to vote for - but they are the least worst option, and a better option then... this labour option.

That’s what you seriously don’t get! You won’t find me trying to persuade anyone of the virtues of the Tory party, I’m not knocking on anyone’s doors - but if you ask me what’s best for the country, it is categorically not a labour led government. Of course the polls may be wrong, but if there is a Tory majority, who are you going to blame? Is it just the evil Tory voters or the Labour Party for ensuring that not enough of the middle ground will vote for them?

Labour will be worse for this country than what’s being presented by the Tories. That’s astonishing. But of course, it must all be down to Rupert Murdock and all the brainwashing that’s been going on.
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You are right. How anyone, after considering all the facts, think Johnson and his manifesto is the best option seems like madness to me. Do you live in a city? Do you see the homelessness and poverty first hand?

There is no way on Earth Boris Johnson is the least worse option! Andrew Neil says it better than I could but the trust in Johnson has to be zero.
 
Raven said:
I hate him. I don't hate many people, especially out of those I've never personally met, but Boris is just exceedingly hateable.
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What I hate is the belief that it is perfectly acceptable for him to lie and lie again and yet expect to be trusted.
And what I hate even more is that he gets away with it so easily.
What a terrible state of affairs to have a PM who is a compulsive liar.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
same old BBC, the left think they are biased, the right think they are biased. Amusing.
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Did you see that Dutch cartoon in one of their papers the other day? It was extremely crude so I'm not going to post it here but they had a bit about the BBC in it that was extremely telling. Even people in foreign countries have noticed how biased the BBC is.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
thought he was a raving Tory and the BBC were Rupert Murdock muppets afraid to call him out?
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You can be a Tory and still have journalistic integrity *cough* Kuenssberg *cough* although she also laid into Boris today (or was it yesterday) so it looks like they're starting to get tired of his shit.

He's had an easy ride - moreso than any other PM that I can think of in recent years. It's good to actually see some journalists hold him account other than the Guardian and their "we hate Boris because he doesn't eat kale like us" lot.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Oh dear.

it’s not clear at all - especially when we don’t even know what the potential leader of the country and future PM actually wants? If you could tell me what Corbyn wants to do, then I would consider it a clear position.

Boris - wants to leave with agreed deal.
Swinson - will revoke a50 on day one
Corbyn - will attempt to negotiate a deal, which will take how long? Allegedly 3 months, then have a referendum which will take another 6 months, and then maybe we will have an answer? Or maybe not?
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I hear this all the time. How is it not clear?!?

Boris wants to leave with a sh1te deal.
Swinson will stay
Corbyn will;
- Leave with the same deal (if no better one is possible)
- Leave with a deal that’s more palatable to more people (Remainers)
- Remain based on a referendum linked to the outcome of the above.

How is that not clear?!?

The EU will either negotiate or it won’t. But the deal on the table is punitive for the UK, not what Leavers wanted and is not acceptable to remainers.

Labour’s policy has the potential to bring people closer.
 
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