I'm sure there are other areas in the NHS where more money can be saved than that lost by missed appointments.
UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80
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Tory scum not turning up to the climate debate just goes to show they don't care about the environment. Why anyone would vote for that shit show of a party baffles me.
...and threatening the channel running the show with a review of remit because they empty chaired Johnson with an ice sculpture. Good guys.
As predictably shameful and cowardly as it was for Frottage and Boris not to show up, I have to say it was pleasantly refreshing to see a grown up debate without them. For a blissful moment I'd forgotten they existed, happiest 60 mins of this election for me.
Where I live the average house is £500k, so you would need an income of circa £100k to get a £400k mortgage and a deposit of £100k. This is Zone 3 in an “up and coming” area. The same house in Balham would cost £800k, Clapham, £1m.
Whereas you can buy a 3bed semi in a new estate (less than 10 years) for £100k, and so you would need to earn circa £20k for an £80k mortgage and £20k deposit.
if you live in London, £80k does not make you wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. When you start to look at the money left at the end of the month, it doesn’t make you rich!
for the smart arses, the solution is not just to move! There are 9m people in this city.
says unnamed source!!!
Initially you were defending irate objections to Labour's taxation at the £80k level - a level at which the taxation would be virtually identical to that of the Tories. Even at incomes of £100k the difference would be a mere 1k. This means your new position is now quibbling over the 5% added difference between Labour and Conservative tax policy on the top 1/4 of the top 2% of incomes.
Alright, accepted, it's a bit of a bummer for people earning £125k. After tax they're only taking home 74k instead of the 76.5k they'd be taking home under the Tories.
Do you what's the solution though? Vote Tory again. They'll make a real push for social equality as always.
Anyone see the climate debate? Anything of note?
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Boris didn't turn up and instead sent Gove and his dad (I don't jest) in his stead, they were reminded it was a debate amongst party leaders and were so told to get fecked.
As for the debate itself - Labour aiming for carbon neutrality by 2030 and focused on the benefits of improving rail and bus travel to offset the need for aviation, the SNP suggested 2045 as their target and criticised Labour's voting record, the Plaid Cymru bloke started waffling some suspect bro-science about how cattle farming is carbon neutral because the grass they eat is a CO2 sink
, and Jo Swinson did a reverse Boris and claimed staying in the EU was the key to tackling the climate. As you'd expect the Greens came across as being most authentically committed to drastic action and stressed the others weren't doing nearly enough.Average house price as of July this year is £233,000 - 80k would put you in the £320,000 - £360,000 range before you thought about a deposit.
Also that 233k figure is hugely skewed by the London market. If I was earning 80k in my neck of the woods I'd be able to buy a house outright every two years or so whilst still living a more extravagant lifestyle than I currently do.
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Agree, 80k is much more than enough in the majority of places in the UK outside of London. If you go some places up north you can buy a couple of properties on that salary.
It's a laughable argument that a 80k salary doesn't make you wealthy.
there is no ideal solution, there never is. Labour are not a better option than this Govt (yes, in my opinion...).
But what is social equality? None of us are equal, it’s an impossible aspiration.
One pathological liar and the other a delusional leftist. How the feck has this country been left with such a terrible choice. Both strategies are doomed for failure.
The trouble is its much harder to secure that sort of salary outside of London. I live just outside London and would be more than open to work anywhere in the country, but in my line of work I get offered my salary outside of London, even in the big cities.
Equal opportunities
I think a.60% tax rate is already high and already fair. The point is is went to 60% under the tories because they’d still be taking home x, it was fair, nobody decent would complain, it wasn’t much extra etc. So the rate becomes the new norm. So along now comes Labour wanting their cut, making the same arguments. That’s fine but it’s also OK to say 60% is a decent chunk already.
We're doomed. You really think that?
London is in a whole different world when it comes to this.
But even if you were getting 80k in London and got something like 50k in the midlands or north that is still more than enough to live comfortably in those areas.
It’s not laughable in London though, and that’s where 9m people live - that’s more people than in Scotland and Wales combined, hardly an insignificant number.
it will cost you £1650-1800 + bills to rent a 3 bed terrace around here.
Social equality doesn't mean communism. It's not absurd or even unrealistic to want to improve the circumstances of those living under hardship, while aspiring them to have the same chances to succeed as those born into positions of privilege.
I assume you're not being pedantic but equal opportunity and levelling the playing field is the aspiration. Or, you know, feck it and rig society further towards those already with wealth.
I know that's your opinion and it is the opinion of so many in the South of England. And that's why we're fecked in this austerity Brexit hell whilst London becomes evermore unaffordable for everyday people.
I've already pointed out London is on a completely different scale.
Someone's perception of wealth and what it means to be 'rich' is always going to be skewed by where you live, and who you associate with.
Personally, as I live in London, an £80k salary seems a long way from someone being 'rich' or able to do the extravagant things we typically associate with rich people. If they're early-ish in their career, then clearly they're doing well for themselves and are on track for a successful life, financially speaking. That's not to say the tax rates are unreasonable, but Londoners are quite understandably going to prickle at the suggestion they are some fat cat because they earn a middling London salary.
Yes that is a huge problem. As you've pointed out though equality is a pointless aspiration so, feck it huh?
So perhaps we can have a different tax rate if you live inside the M25?
This is the key to why New Labour's education education education didn't create lasting change - people in poor areas got better opportunities, but they still had to go to London (or other big cities) to take them. A small % of kids from poor areas became less poor, but the areas themselves stayed poor
I fully understand your position that's why i put my caveat in about London. But for the majority of people in the UK 80k is a very high salary. But it does seem like London is in dire need of change for the average person.
That’s not my opinion, thanks for talking for me!
How about fixing inequalities in the City making it a fairer place to live for everyone instead?
Directly replying to you saying that it was your opinion in the post you made that I was replying to, not talking for you.
Oh. Exclamation mark.
it wasn’t a serious proposal. But I’ll continue to state that money goes much further up north. quality of life and expendable income can be far greater
maybe I’ll go for an ellipsis next time...
How would you target addicts? What about the obese, people with genetic conditions who have children, the pregnant, people who get STDs? All self-inflicted.
‘most people die from lifestyle choices’ that’s what George Best’s surgeon said when some people questioned if he should get a new liver.
Anti-semitism only counts if it's from Labour.
All you seem to be saying is that you have to be wealthy to live well in London - not that people in London are not wealthy. You can't say that having the privilege of being able to own a your own home in the location with the 8th most expensive real estate on the planet is not an indication of wealth.
i also stated rental figures. Which here are between £1650-1800 for a 3 bed terrace.
but for most people who own a house in London, it simply means you have an expensive asset your kids can sell when you die. Doesn’t mean you have cash that you can spend.
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