UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%
  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%
  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%
  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%
  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%
  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%
  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%
  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%
  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%

  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
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Neil is the toughest interviewer out there, but when his interview with Sturgeon was pulled up by the BBC fact-checkers it doesn't exactly help his cause.

https://bbc.co.uk/news/50552295

His format is designed to catch politicians out, but I'm not sure any would've been able to counter him effectively. Is that a good thing? Sturgeon went about it the right way, she needed to see his sources before jumping to an answer.

That’s fact checking her claims not his questions as far as I can see. It could have also pulled her up on claims that Ireland show why joining the EU is an example of the path that Scotland could take. Ireland joined the EEC in order to maintain economical alignment with the UK because it was their most important trading partner. Scotland would be doing exactly the opposite in economically diverging with its most important trading partner by joining the EU.
 
Pardon my ignorance but that doesn't really seem right to me. I'm sure you have perfectly reasonable views, but as you are now a permanent resident of another country I'm not sure what basis you have for voting in UK elections.
Well, we're still British citizens and we're still paying taxes there (and here). Your vote is cast in the constituency where you were last registered. Ironically, we wouldn't be here full-time if it wasn't for Brexit, so we have a particular interest in what happens.

From the www.gov.uk site:
You can register as an overseas voter for up to 15 years after leaving the UK, as long as: you're a British or eligible Irish citizen. you were registered to vote in the UK within the previous 15 years (or, in some cases, if you were too young to have registered when you left the UK)
 
What do you think the headline would be if he apologises?

There's already an ongoing investigation into this taking place. He's unequivocally stated he's against discrimination of any kind and unlike most politicians can actually back up those claims with evidence and yet that's still not good enough for some and it never will be because and I think it's fair to say this, not all racism is the same in the current climate.

On the day the Chief Rabbi calls him out why didn’t he just apologise? Why not say he‘ll reopen the cases of those found guilty of antisemitism that are still in the party and just launch them out of the party?
 
On the day the Chief Rabbi calls him out why didn’t he just apologise? Why not say he‘ll reopen the cases of those found guilty of antisemitism that are still in the party and just launch them out of the party?

That's what I would expect a leader to do, deal with the situation and have a plan. Sadly we're lacking leaders across the entire house.
 
On the day the Chief Rabbi calls him out why didn’t he just apologise? Why not say he‘ll reopen the cases of those found guilty of antisemitism that are still in the party and just launch them out of the party?
It's his "Hi my name is Jeremy and welcome to Jackass" moment. Surprised it's taken this long tbh.
 
On the day the Chief Rabbi calls him out why didn’t he just apologise? Why not say he‘ll reopen the cases of those found guilty of antisemitism that are still in the party and just launch them out of the party?


I think he’s just determined to stay absolutely defiant that he’s never done anything anti-Semitic and any movement from that stance, even in the form of an “I’m sorry if you interpreted something wrong and it upset you” he’s aware that tomorrow’s papers will be headlined with “Corbyn admits to antisemitism, offers half assed apology makes no promises to improve in future”.
 
I think he’s just determined to stay absolutely defiant that he’s never done anything anti-Semitic and any movement from that stance, even in the form of an “I’m sorry if you interpreted something wrong and it upset you” he’s aware that tomorrow’s papers will be headlined with “Corbyn admits to antisemitism, offers half assed apology makes no promises to improve in future”.
Yep. I'm sure it didn't look good but the media coverage was going to burn him either way.
 
I think he’s just determined to stay absolutely defiant that he’s never done anything anti-Semitic and any movement from that stance, even in the form of an “I’m sorry if you interpreted something wrong and it upset you” he’s aware that tomorrow’s papers will be headlined with “Corbyn admits to antisemitism, offers half assed apology makes no promises to improve in future”.

You need sacrificial lambs though, it’s about optics. There are low level members that have been done for antisemitism that are still in the party. They needed to be kicked out a long time ago. I appreciate what you are saying about how apologising would be portrayed in the press but I do feel he could have been strong and proactive here but ended up on the back foot and went downhill from there instead.
 


:lol:
I'd written a parody about Bernie being anti-Hindu but thought it went too far from reality.
 
The 2016 Dem primary taught me to trust my instincts, not the respected figures who called Bernie a racist and sexist, and everything since has reaffirmed that.
 
On the day the Chief Rabbi calls him out why didn’t he just apologise? Why not say he‘ll reopen the cases of those found guilty of antisemitism that are still in the party and just launch them out of the party?
Yip. I think that stops most of the media/public clamour stone dead.

In the same way that Boris should have apologised on Friday (for the "post box" comment from his piece years ago).

I do wonder if some politicians even use PR advice. If they don't, they're stupid... if they are then sack the PR people.
 
Not necessarily. The year I got my honours degree was the year of the market crash. I entered a jobs market where nobody was employing and ended up taking what I could get. I'm 32, still renting, with four kids and now working in a job that I know pays about 20% less than it would had it not been for this government's "1% cap for the public sector" that saw inflation overtake what I made from my second year in the job onwards. We're still behind and I look at my kids and say that I'll never ever vote for a party that will put them through the same shit that my generation walked out of the doors of university into.

I'm doing a second degree and getting my TQFE so I can become a teacher trainer. But if I wasn't in Scotland, and if it wasn't because of Scottish Labour and SNP policies, I would have had to pay for it, just like my first degree.

So, yeah, feck the Tories.

I lost my job as part of the fall out of 2008, although, I blame myself because I had a very good job which I really liked and decided to change because I thought there was a better opportunity for my future career. I could see the writing on the wall, but still changed jobs, and it turned out to be a catastrophic error of judgement which set my career back 10 years and means I will never fulfill my potential.

I come from it from a slightly different angle to you though. I was subject to a Labour welfare policy when I was out of work. Despite having paid fortunes in PAYE, I received 6 months unemployment and then I was pretty much on my own. I had a mortgage which the interest was paid, but no capital, which left me with £1 a week income support. I was able to borrow money from my family and did a few off the record 'jobs' to get by for the next year.

After 10 years of Labour rule, did you not find the Labour Party in any way culpable at all for the situation you found yourself in? All the no more boom and bust crap, but despite all those years of boom, nothing put aside to cushion the blow of the inevitable bust?

This is what I don't get, the Blair/Brown Government is only ever criticised for Iraq, and rightly so, but seem to get a free pass for the financial mismanagement of the economy.
 
Yip. I think that stops most of the media/public clamour stone dead.

In the same way that Boris should have apologised on Friday (for the "post box" comment from his piece years ago).

I do wonder if some politicians even use PR advice. If they don't, they're stupid... if they are then sack the PR people.

They’re looking across the Atlantic and around the world generally and concluding that defiance in the face of criticism is a more successful strategy than folding.
 
I lost my job as part of the fall out of 2008, although, I blame myself because I had a very good job which I really liked and decided to change because I thought there was a better opportunity for my future career. I could see the writing on the wall, but still changed jobs, and it turned out to be a catastrophic error of judgement which set my career back 10 years and means I will never fulfill my potential.

I come from it from a slightly different angle to you though. I was subject to a Labour welfare policy when I was out of work. Despite having paid fortunes in PAYE, I received 6 months unemployment and then I was pretty much on my own. I had a mortgage which the interest was paid, but no capital, which left me with £1 a week income support. I was able to borrow money from my family and did a few off the record 'jobs' to get by for the next year.

After 10 years of Labour rule, did you not find the Labour Party in any way culpable at all for the situation you found yourself in? All the no more boom and bust crap, but despite all those years of boom, nothing put aside to cushion the blow of the inevitable bust?

This is what I don't get, the Blair/Brown Government is only ever criticised for Iraq, and rightly so, but seem to get a free pass for the financial mismanagement of the economy.


I prefer the Boom -> Bust scenario to the Austerity -> Bust scenario the Tories are leading us towards.
 
They’re looking across the Atlantic and around the world generally and concluding that defiance in the face of criticism is a more successful strategy than folding.

I see how that works for Boris and his audience but surely Jeremy is a different kettle of fish. He part defines himself by fighting racism in all its forms.
 
I prefer the Boom -> Bust scenario to the Austerity -> Bust scenario the Tories are leading us towards.

This Brexshit has been a huge factor in the shit we find ourselves in. 3 1/2 years of pissing about, which wouldn't have been necessary if Boris had put aside his petty differences with Cameron and supported remain
 
I lost my job as part of the fall out of 2008, although, I blame myself because I had a very good job which I really liked and decided to change because I thought there was a better opportunity for my future career. I could see the writing on the wall, but still changed jobs, and it turned out to be a catastrophic error of judgement which set my career back 10 years and means I will never fulfill my potential.

I come from it from a slightly different angle to you though. I was subject to a Labour welfare policy when I was out of work. Despite having paid fortunes in PAYE, I received 6 months unemployment and then I was pretty much on my own. I had a mortgage which the interest was paid, but no capital, which left me with £1 a week income support. I was able to borrow money from my family and did a few off the record 'jobs' to get by for the next year.

After 10 years of Labour rule, did you not find the Labour Party in any way culpable at all for the situation you found yourself in? All the no more boom and bust crap, but despite all those years of boom, nothing put aside to cushion the blow of the inevitable bust?

This is what I don't get, the Blair/Brown Government is only ever criticised for Iraq, and rightly so, but seem to get a free pass for the financial mismanagement of the economy.
Of course I blame Labour for not having a safety net, and you seem to have every right to blame them after your circumstances. But the reality is that nobody expected what happened in 2008 because the banks were breaking the law daily. From what I remember it was the Tories that wanted to deregulate the banks.

Labour should have saved, but so should have every government preceding it.

But I'm an SNP voter so I really don't care anymore. I just know that if I had to pick a bunch of cnuts it would be the ones with red ties.
 
I see how that works for Boris and his audience but surely Jeremy is a different kettle of fish. He part defines himself by fighting racism in all its forms.

I think he’s being pulled both ways. My impression is that his deep base don’t think he’s been defiant enough in the face of the anti-semitic controversy. People like Neil Clark and George Galloway have been critical of any sign of conceding a point. Given he’s being advised by the likes of Milne, it’s not surprising to see him refusing to back down as we enter the final weeks.
 
I lost my job as part of the fall out of 2008, although, I blame myself because I had a very good job which I really liked and decided to change because I thought there was a better opportunity for my future career. I could see the writing on the wall, but still changed jobs, and it turned out to be a catastrophic error of judgement which set my career back 10 years and means I will never fulfill my potential.

I come from it from a slightly different angle to you though. I was subject to a Labour welfare policy when I was out of work. Despite having paid fortunes in PAYE, I received 6 months unemployment and then I was pretty much on my own. I had a mortgage which the interest was paid, but no capital, which left me with £1 a week income support. I was able to borrow money from my family and did a few off the record 'jobs' to get by for the next year.

After 10 years of Labour rule, did you not find the Labour Party in any way culpable at all for the situation you found yourself in? All the no more boom and bust crap, but despite all those years of boom, nothing put aside to cushion the blow of the inevitable bust?

This is what I don't get, the Blair/Brown Government is only ever criticised for Iraq, and rightly so, but seem to get a free pass for the financial mismanagement of the economy.

Putting aside the undisputed fact that the global financial crisis caused by greedy bankers. The reason why we have boom bust phases in the first place is because of decades of under investment under the Tories leaving the majority of people largely impoverished followed by decades of Labour spending like there’s no tomorrow to try and balance things out. Even if there’s a bust at the end of 5 10 or 15 years of Labour rule it is the only way forward because the country is on its knees. The basin is dry the taps need to be turned on or there will be an existential crisis for a lot of people in this country.

Every single fecking public service is depleted to the point of collapse, social care, NHS, public transport, youth services, police, fire, welfare etc etc etc People dying waiting for work assesments. People in the same situation as you were becoming homeless and dying on the streets. Even middle classes earning a fair few quid are living paycheque to paycheque. People are just surviving day to day and morale is down. Look around next time you ride the tube or the bus at peoples faces and understand the pain everyone is living through. The social fabric of our society has completely eroded.

With Brexit guaranteed if the Tories get in this country will not be able to handle it. Change is needed and change is vital now while everything is on life support because once the machines are turned off like they were with Thatcher in the 80s, there’s no revival.
 
Bloody hell. If he fared worse than he did tonight, I'll have to Google it!! Must have been carnage.

Anti semitism, huge borrowing and the fact that it's not just the top5% (and businesses) that'll take the pain.... are all issues for Labour and Andrew Neil knew that and went for them.

As long as he does the same for all.
And Neill was pretty accurate in his questions on all those issues. Corbyn had no credible answers on tax or Waspi, and stupidly struggled on A-S.

I mean ... ‘We’ll pay for it because we have to’ .... bloody hell :lol:

Came across as an angry, sanctimonious and anti wealth. Definitely lost votes from centrists, fence sitters and Jews tonight!
 
Hard to see Corbyn winning anyone around tonight. The intransigence doesn’t come across well. Just act conciliatory, even if you don’t believe it, you plum!
 
This Brexshit has been a huge factor in the shit we find ourselves in. 3 1/2 years of pissing about, which wouldn't have been necessary if Boris had put aside his petty differences with Cameron and supported remain

That’s a very cute way of pretending that Brexit is anything other than a Tory love child.

The Tories own it, there’s no separating the two.
 
This Brexshit has been a huge factor in the shit we find ourselves in. 3 1/2 years of pissing about, which wouldn't have been necessary if Boris had put aside his petty differences with Cameron and supported remain
Or if Corbyn had campaigned at all on his stated preference...
 
I joined RedCafe when I was out of work, to give myself something else to occupy my time with.

So you can blame Labour for that too :)

There was plenty of jobs out there. You were just bone idle. I can’t understand why you had such an issue getting a job.
 
Hard to see Corbyn winning anyone around tonight. The intransigence doesn’t come across well. Just act conciliatory, even if you don’t believe it, you plum!

Boris will say any old waffle to get by the situation. Corbyn just cannot bring himself to do it. He just sits there and acts like a naughty child being told off. It’s frustrating to watch. Just say something like “I’m sorry the Rabbi feels that way I invite him to overview our process” shut the line of questioning down because Neil is like a dog with a bone he won’t let go however much you squirm in your chair. Whoever is prepping him needs to get sacked.
 
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