UAP - Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon

I once saw something I can't explain. But it wasn't aliens (to nearly the same level of certainty I know there is no god - i.e. the total lack of convincing evidence despite huge efforts to find it make it almost impossible). If it isn't aliens who cares?
 
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luke511 said:
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The same Harry Reid who spunked 22 million tax dollars on this bunch of UFO enthusiasts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Aerospace_Threat_Identification_Program and learnt nothing new?

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No evidence at all in that video. And the videos in the background have all been either explained or far more plausible causes proposed. For example the first one, the green flashing triangles is a known phenomenon that occurs with triangle shaped lens night vison cameras when not finding anything to focus on. Others do actually exists as they are detected more than visually but none are in any way convincingly unknown extreme high tech much less alien in origin. Could some be secret drone or submarine technology etc? Well of course it is possible but amazing that we have never got a good photo of one or a malfunctioning one being found. Stealth aircraft were in this category but they didn't remain secret for very long.

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Rubio is a Tea Party nutter so is it surprising that he things the US government is hiding things?

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Old man finds footage eye raising. Most if not all the pentagon footage is much more plausibly explained with non-alien phenomona



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Another man with no scientific expertise who thinks because a pilot can't explain it there must be aliens. We know politicians are often idiots but this bloke is on intelligence committees FFS. Glad it isn't my tax dollar at stake.

https://futurism.com/the-byte/senator-ufos-earth

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Bill Nelson said he considered it highly unlikely that aliens were involved but that he couldn't rule it out. What he didn't say (forgetting how enthusiastic UFO enthusiast are) was that he also couldn't rule out ghosts, the Easter bunny or Santa Claus delivering presents.

UFOlogy is essentially a religion and operates the same way many religions do. I can't explain it therefore god/aliens must exist QED.
 
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The coverage of this is so click-bait like. Even 60 minutes did a segment on it without calling on one person that has skeptically analyzed the data. There are people that have analyzed most of these and have come up with reasonable explanations that don't appeal to either the supernatural or aliens but that doesn't sell so we have to put up with this nonsense.

Mick West has done some great work on these fronts:
 
MarylandMUFan said:
Crap Wibble, I missed your write-up. Sorry about that.
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:)

It is a good video as it shows how easily we can be misled. I also like the last bit (that I have linked to directly below) where they discuss why the videos have been released again but in a bit less compressed format and why people like the idea of alien life so much.



Douglas Adams said:
A man didn't understand how televisions work, and was convinced that there must be lots of little men inside the box, manipulating images at high speed. An engineer explained about high-frequency modulations of the electromagnetic spectrum, transmitters and receivers, amplifiers and cathode ray tubes, scan lines moving across and down a phosphorescent screen.

The man listened to the engineer with careful attention, nodding his head at every step of the argument. At the end he pronounced himself satisfied. He really did now understand how televisions work.

"But I expect there are just a few little men in there, aren't there?"
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Carl Sagan said:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
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nimic said:
Calling them "already displayed capabilities" is a huge stretch. I've already posted a video showing that the "go fast" Nimitz video is probably something moving at about the same speed as a bird, or possibly a balloon at wind speed. There is no real indication out there that these capabilities exist.

Also, I'm not sure where you get 5 days from. From what I'm seeing it would be more like ~230 days. Now that's not a lot, but that's from the closest star, and assuming that it is moving at 0.99c almost instantly. Which means we're already talking sci-fi technology here. It would take massive amounts of energy to accelerate something with mass to 0.99c. And in the end it all comes back to the same question. If any intelligence actually had both the capability to get here and the will to observe us for (at least) seven decades, it's almost unimaginable that they would be this easy to spot. And somehow 95% of them are spotted in otherwise remote areas of the US.

Now the Chilean military did spot one a few years ago, I believe. They concluded that it was impossible to explain, but in a matter of days it was proven beyond any doubt by randos on the internet that it was actually just a plane. So let's not assume just because someone flies a jet for a living that they're in any way qualified to conclude that the most likely case is alien observation drones.

Edit: according to the calculator I used, to make it in 5 days they would have to be moving at something like 99.9995% the speed of light, which is needless to say many orders of magnitude more difficult than "just" 99%.
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If you read the paper that I linked above, you'd see that the acceleration based on the radar data reports show maximum likelihood acceleration of 5000g . I used a lower bound of 1000g. I don't see a problem reaching the said speed with such capabilities.
 
Oh, I guess we proved aliens are definitely visiting Earth then. Because let's be clear, that is literally the only possible explanation for a craft that can accelerate at 'minimum' 1000G - in the atmosphere no less.

Except you seem to be hesitant about clearly stating this is what you think is happening. But if that paper is believable, and clearly you believe it with your talk of established capabilities, then why aren't you arriving at that conclusion? Why are you beating around the bush?
 
nimic said:
Oh, I guess we proved aliens are definitely visiting Earth then. Because let's be clear, that is literally the only possible explanation for a craft that can accelerate at 'minimum' 1000G - in the atmosphere no less.

Except you seem to be hesitant about clearly stating this is what you think is happening. But if that paper is believable, and clearly you believe it with your talk of established capabilities, then why aren't you arriving at that conclusion? Why are you beating around the bush?
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For the 20th time, there is always the possibility some nation developed such tech on Earth.
 
Funny how much of a bee in their bonnet sceptics seem to have.
 
The Firestarter said:
For the 20th time, there is always the possibility some nation developed such tech on Earth.
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Some other nation, whose capabilities and level of technology are reasonably well understood and thought to be well below that of the US, created a large drone that can accelerate 10 times faster than the fastest missile ever created? And then they fly it over US air space regularly?

Never mind sci-fi, this is a Tom Clancy novel.
 
Surely in all likelihood these are foreign drones testing the US? There are plenty of technologies where China is behind the US but drones are actually 1 thing that China seems to be pretty fecking good at. The commercial world leader in drones is DJI, a Chinese company.
 
nimic said:
Some other nation, whose capabilities and level of technology are reasonably well understood and thought to be well below that of the US, created a large drone that can accelerate 10 times faster than the fastest missile ever created? And then they fly it over US air space regularly?

Never mind sci-fi, this is a Tom Clancy novel.
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Where did I say nation other than the US?
 
nimic said:
Yeah, funny how the claim of what would be greatest discovery in human history makes people expect reasonable evidence.

Silly boys.
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Well that’s true yes, but the defence of no aliens seems so agressive.

Someone posts something that seems strange and can’t be explained easily or straight away and it’s just met with “IT’S NOT ALIENS”. I just think ok calm down, no one said it was, just that there’s something in the sky that can’t be explained easily
 
The Firestarter said:
Let's be honest , no amount of evidence will be able to convince you.
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Not the quality of evidence you're providing, that's for sure. I've seen equally robust evidence that the Earth is flat or that the Queen is a Lizard Person.

The Firestarter said:
Where did I say nation other than the US?
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Then why didn't you just say that? "Some nation on Earth" implies it could be someone else. But okay, even if it would be the US, they're... spying on themselves? Why are they releasing footage of their own secret technology? And I don't think you realize just what it would take to get a large drone to accelerate at 1000g, in the atmosphere. *After just 5 seconds of acceleration it would be traveling at ~176 000 km/h. At that speed it's crossed the entirety of the continental US in just a minute and a half. And yet only a single US naval ship saw it?

And that's if they just maintain the speed. After a minute of acceleration it's moving at a cool 2.1 million km/h.

Edited*
 
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Zlatan 7 said:
Well that’s true yes, but the defence of no aliens seems so agressive.

Someone posts something that seems strange and can’t be explained easily or straight away and it’s just met with “IT’S NOT ALIENS”. I just think ok calm down, no one said it was, just that there’s something in the sky that can’t be explained easily
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I’m just not sure the reason ufo enthusiasts post these videos is because they want lots of explanations about bokeh effects and parallax.
 
nimic said:
Not the quality of evidence you're providing, that's for sure. I've seen equally robust evidence that the Earth is flat or that the Queen is a Lizard Person.



Then why didn't you just say that? "Some nation on Earth" implies it could be someone else. But okay, even if it would be the US, they're... spying on themselves? Why are they releasing footage of their own secret technology? And I don't think you realize just what it would take to get a large drone to accelerate at 1000g, in the atmosphere. It's orders of magnitude beyond what we're capable of.
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I said some nation on earth - "why didn't you say US is a possibility " . Honestly, quite odd question that.

You seem to be either forgetting or not knowing that the US has already developed aerospace technology in secrecy. For example the oxcart project was developed by the CIA without even mentioning the word aircraft in the budget reports . It was trucks and drivers.

And, of course they are not spying on their own forces. One possibility is , they are testing how their forces will react to such threats. The interesting thing is that the Nimitz incident was after the AEGIS ships got a radar upgrade.

It's orders of magnitude beyond what we're capable of.
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No, its orders of mag than what you think we are capable of. If you had never ever heard of electromagnetism , if a couple of people told you they had instantaneous conversation between US and Europe , transmitted over the air, you'd label them whackjobs.
 
The Firestarter said:
I said some nation on earth - "why didn't you say US is a possibility " . Honestly, quite odd question that.

You seem to be either forgetting or not knowing that the US has already developed aerospace technology in secrecy. For example the oxcart project was developed by the CIA without even mentioning the word aircraft in the budget reports . It was trucks and drivers.

And, of course they are not spying on their own forces. One possibility is , they are testing how their forces will react to such threats. The interesting thing is that the Nimitz incident was after the AEGIS ships got a radar upgrade.


No, its orders of mag than what you think we are capable of. If you had never ever heard of electromagnetism , if a couple of people told you they had instantaneous conversation between US and Europe , transmitted over the air, you'd label them whackjobs.
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Okay, I'll rephrase. It's orders of magnutide beyond literally anything we're ever proven to be capable of. Take a look at the calculations I edited into my post. After only five seconds of acceleration - at the minimum of 1000g - they're crossing the US in a minute and a half. If they're accelerating at 5000g they'll get to that speed in a second. We've come full circle back to sci-fi, because even suggesting we might have the capability of that is the dictionary definition of an extraordinary claim.
 
The Firestarter said:
I said some nation on earth - "why didn't you say US is a possibility " . Honestly, quite odd question that.
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It's not an odd question, because if you're saying any nation other than the US is doing it then we have the same problem of 1) someone is more powerful than the US and 2) they're constantly flying in US airspace, on top of 3) no clue of his has ever emerged from said country. Basically, if you mean the US, just say the US, it makes it easier for all of us to parse this discussion.

It's also relevant because some people are claiming that the US doesn't think this is either Russia or China. I wanted to know if you were one of those.
 
@nimic wouldn't believe it if he was suspended in the middle of the ocean and the UAP was going in circles around him, just the same trajectory this thread is having.
 
The Firestarter said:
I said some nation on earth - "why didn't you say US is a possibility " . Honestly, quite odd question that.

You seem to be either forgetting or not knowing that the US has already developed aerospace technology in secrecy. For example the oxcart project was developed by the CIA without even mentioning the word aircraft in the budget reports . It was trucks and drivers.

And, of course they are not spying on their own forces. One possibility is , they are testing how their forces will react to such threats. The interesting thing is that the Nimitz incident was after the AEGIS ships got a radar upgrade.


No, its orders of mag than what you think we are capable of. If you had never ever heard of electromagnetism , if a couple of people told you they had instantaneous conversation between US and Europe , transmitted over the air, you'd label them whackjobs.
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Well yes but ultimately technology operates within the areas of knowledge mapped by science. Current tech isn’t that much of a surprise to people who know the field. Some countries maybe a bit ahead of similarly capable countries in some areas, but it’s unlikely two evenly matched powers would be so far apart the lagging power was genuinely ignorant about the technology at hand.
 
The Firestarter said:
@nimic wouldn't believe it if he was suspended in the middle of the ocean and the UAP was going in circles around him, just the same trajectory this thread is having.
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You're constantly failing to address even the most basic of questions :lol: And when you do get something very wrong (like the time dilation), you just ignore it and move on.

It's hard to understand how it's possible to be so gullible.
 
nimic said:
You're constantly failing to address even the most basic of questions :lol:

It's hard to understand how it's possible to be so gullible.
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What basic questions man? You are not arguing in good faith, you have your mind made and dismiss everything that has been shown to you as bad evidence, and share "debunkings" by youtube experts , while the actual experts are the eye witnesses.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Well that’s true yes, but the defence of no aliens seems so agressive
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1) it's such a lazy explanation
2) if the last few years proves anything, it's a short step from believing in flying saucers to thinking Bill Gates wants to inject 5G chips into you.
 
nimic said:
Ah yes, eye witnesses. Famously the most reliable sources of evidence for incredible events.
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It was mentioned multiple times these observations were made in other spectrums other than visible light, but of course it flew right over your head. Like an UAP.
 
The Firestarter said:
What basic questions man? You are not arguing in good faith, you have your mind made and dismiss everything that has been shown to you as bad evidence, and share "debunkings" by youtube experts , while the actual experts are the eye witnesses.
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"The claim that eyewitness testimony is reliable and accurate is testable, and the research is clear that eyewitness identification is vulnerable to distortion without the witness’s awareness."

https://www.psychologicalscience.or...s-testimony-is-the-best-kind-of-evidence.html
 
nimic said:
If an UAP flew over my head at 2.1 million km/h, like you seem to think it's capable of, then I definitely wouldn't see it.
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Who said they move at a constant speed all the time ? In fact, the data shows the objects are capable of changing acceleration and speed.
 
nimic said:
If an UAP flew over my head at 2.1 million km/h, like you seem to think it's capable of, then I definitely wouldn't see it.
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What if that's how fast jokes appear to fly over your head due to how slow your brain is.
 
nimic said:
Yeah, funny how the claim of what would be greatest discovery in human history makes people expect reasonable evidence.

Silly boys.
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Exactly. Whenever we have a clear image of something, it's something we recognize (airplane, weather balloon, insect etc...). It's only when the image is grainy that people lose their minds and jump right to alien craft instead of actually looking for the more likely explanation. Give me a clear image, with actual measurable distances then I will be interested. Hell, most of us skeptics are science nerds that would lose their minds with excitement if we had actual evidence of alien space crafts.
 
Hectic said:
What if that's how fast jokes appear to fly over your head due to how slow your brain is.
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Ok so we know they’re here and probably for more than a few years.Obviously not our tech. I dread the day if contact is made for real.
 
MarylandMUFan said:
Exactly. Whenever we have a clear image of something, it's something we recognize (airplane, weather balloon, insect etc...). It's only when the image is grainy that people lose their minds and jump right to alien craft instead of actually looking for the more likely explanation. Give me a clear image, with actual measurable distances then I will be interested. Hell, most of us skeptics are science nerds that would lose their minds with excitement if we had actual evidence of alien space crafts.
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I too am highly sceptical. Mainly for two reasons.
1. It pre-supposes that there is intelligent life on another planet.
2. And that planet is not that far away.
The laws of physics are universal.
Interplanetary travel in our small solar system takes ages with the maximum speed of up to 25,000 mph. And that is only possible using other planets or their moons to use as a slingshot to accelerate. And even that is only a minute fraction of the speed of light.

To be able to come here from another star tens or hundreds of light years away, even at a few percent of the speed of light would take take an incredible amount of time. They are hardly likely to go to that effort without a very pressing reason. So extremely improbable that they would do all that without making some kind of impact here that we would quickly recognise.
 
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