Let's just bide our time. When we get proof that all this time we've had a hidden race of advanced humans living under the sea in what was called Atlantis, using such incredibly advanced tech, we'll yet see you claim that you knew all along that was the case. It's a cert.
UAP - Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon
- Thread starter altodevil
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I've said all along that there were very clear signs that the underground Atlanteans were our true masters.
Every single instance of the many that have been documented are a malfunction of course. The experienced professionals that give testimonies are idiots too, they aren't capable of rational thinking.
I love the idea of this stuff, and I always like to check in on any new arguments or evidence. I really want to believe, but as much as I sympathise with the believers here I do think you Wibble nimic and the others make the stronger arguments.
I think it is highly likely there is life out there and I'd love proof that there was. I don't however think we currently have any evidence of worth no matter how much UFO enthusiasts want it to be true.
As likely to just be another bug in the simulation, but still fun to imagine what could be
We’ve literally got former presidents and heads of intelligence going on live television saying there are things flying in our airspace that we can’t explain. The BBC, guardian, New York Times et al regularly run articles about it. The US military have been commissioned to create a report which will confirm their existence saying they aren’t US made and NASA are now investigating certain incidents. Yet many still seem to speak like none of that has happened and it’s still just crazy Bob in his basement on LSD and that the experts haven’t thought about fecking solar flares and weather balloons.
We have former presidents claiming the election was stolen.
We have senior military advisers speaking at qanon events
The BBC guardian and ny Times hardly have an unblemished record on accuracy
The military are only commissioning a report because trump told them to which gives it as much credence as everything else he's told people to do.
The report will probably be inconclusive (ie yes there are some things we can't explain... we don't know what they are)... the whole spectrum of opinion faulty data to reptillian overlords will therefore claim the report backs them up.
“There are things in our airspace beyond current known technological capabilities and we don’t know what that they are”
“OMG YOU BELIEVE IN REPTILIAN OVERLORDS”
Fantastic false equivalence there. Wonderfully done. Sums up this entire thread.
There is mountains of evidence of UAPs and USOs from military and some civilian sources but zero evidence of Aliens. No one can adequately explain what they are.
The US won't declassify things which would potentially give enemies Intel on their defense capabilities. So unlikely to get detailed radar or other info that is there.
If US jets have tried to engage UAP, I am hopeful they'll release more information about it and just remove the classified bits. They surely must have done, can't have UAP sitting in restricted air space off the East coast for a year and just do nothing. Would give better idea of what they can do or not.
There has supposedly been a near mid air collision with one. Hopefully more military information is able to be released about them to help get answers.
The US won't declassify things which would potentially give enemies Intel on their defense capabilities. So unlikely to get detailed radar or other info that is there.
If US jets have tried to engage UAP, I am hopeful they'll release more information about it and just remove the classified bits. They surely must have done, can't have UAP sitting in restricted air space off the East coast for a year and just do nothing. Would give better idea of what they can do or not.
There has supposedly been a near mid air collision with one. Hopefully more military information is able to be released about them to help get answers.
Cracking strawman by the way... I bet your reptillian overlords are proud
When were UFOs rebranded as UAPs, and why?
Selective misquoting
Your entire post was false equivalents. Apparently Donald Trump desperately claiming an election was fraudulent to cling onto power is the exact same thing as Clinton and Obama confirming there are things flying in our airspace we don’t understand.“FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA JUST SAID COVID IS REAL BUT YOU CAN’T TRUST HIM BECAUSE FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP TELLS LIES”
I think it’s to remove the stigma so more people can come forward with sightings without being told they believe in reptilian overlords. The US seem to think someone has got the jump on them technologically so the more information the better. Whether it turns out it’s just a scam to get more budget funding - and these things were American all along - who knows.
Sorry, but this is such a bad faith post. It's not like I am usually the first to rush to the defence of @sun_tzu , but he was being very careful in his choice of words - you even highlighted the entire thing! Clearly there is a spectrum of belief about these things, even on this forum (we've had people talking about aliens, and at least one guy supported David Icke).
His point was never that you or anyone else in particular falls at the far end of the spectrum, just that everyone will interpret the results in their favour. Which is obviously true.
UFO has little green men stigma attached to it...
They're potentially a threat from a foreign power and government now want pilots and the rest to report them. Not feel they'll be laughed at like Fravor was on the nimitz.
USO couldn't even be catalogued by subs either, not allowed to put a sonar contact as unknown... Hopefully they've now changed that.
It is becoming increasingly possible that there could be some form of life other than here on earth. Maybe even in our Solar System.
And in the latest Brian Cox programmes, he says that same thing.
But there is a huge difference between what we would term 'life', which may well be single cell organisms and highly complex life forms capable of space travel.
Remember, SETI has been scanning the sky's for non natural radio waves; without success.
As I keep saying, the laws of physics are universal. And distance and speed are the key issues.
Unless you have found a way of making any UAP virtually massless, you will need a propulsion system of incredible force.
I am completely unconvinced that they actually exist other than in people's imagination.
I wonder if only you hadn't picked a book written by the Features Editor of the weekly Warminster Journal (occasional contributor of the Daily Mirror and The Warminster UFO Newsletter), author of such titles as Key to the New Age, that another writer wouldn't have burst the bubble of your burgeoning and enquiring mind.
Well, we lost another one to Shuttlewood.*
*(emoji not checked for approval yet).
I’ll never forget the bit where he claimed stars must be alive because of the way they bobbled about when he looked at them. Which was the exact point my youthful enthusiasm died
Around 50 years after they stopped calling UFOs flying saucers, for the same reason - an attempt at making them sound more credible to a new generation of fans.
Couple more decades and my grandkids will be reading about UKOs, unclassified kinetic occurrences or something.
Reagan was so worried about UFOs he apparently brought the subject up with Gorbachev. Jimmy Carter reported seeing a UFO himself. These things have been investigated by the military for decades, way predating the current enthusiasm. And yet still inconclusively. So no, there is nothing fundamentally new here, evidence wise.
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Have humans proven that transversable wormholes are impossible? Or are they still trying to piece together the mysteries of quantum physics and the true nature of the universe? As Nasa's Thomas Zurbuchen said when questioned on the UAP topic - "People tend to underestimate nature, nature is an amazing place where a lot of miracles happen. There's amazing science out there that remains to be discovered." I completely respect your angle, it's the most logical approach, but a degree of open-mindness is required when discussing what is and isn't possible when it comes to spacetime.
I got it from the source, not an article, which have got his quote back to front by the way -
UFO was fine, why do we have to use UAP now?
Transversable wormholes are a nightmare on a Friday night, and they cost a fortune even with an Oyster card.
It's quite a stupid quote all up because the point is they're unidentified, no one knows what they are. Unless we capture or shoot one down that is going to remain the case most likely. There isn't any hard evidence whatever is being detected are aliens from a technologically advanced civilisation, that is for sure.
The whole point is it's an evidence based debate to try to make UAP into identified aerial phenomenon. What he believes is irrelevant, if we're talking about "belief" we're not talking about an evidence based scientific debate anymore. A reasonable conclusion based on the available evidence, ok.
If we have a reasonable weight of evidence that UAP are able to "break" the laws of physics as we know them, that will be the most interesting thing to come out from the report. Then we can try to speculate how that could be possible. Though we still won't have any hard evidence or be able to make firm conclusions.
If they do present a weight of evidence of said physics breaking properties of whatever is being detected that is difficult to deny from a scientific perspective (not just a few grainy videos..). Then there are only two possibilities I can think of, some other world power or group has secret technology far ahead of our own, or there is some other intelligence (terrestrial or not) that does.
I see! Googling just got a million results of the exact same article in different local US newspapers and TV stations (most of which wouldn't even let me read the article due to GDPR). I still don't think what he's saying backs up the point you were making, though. This is a scientist, he's going to follow the evidence. Right now everything we know about physics tells us that wormholes are only theoretically possible.
The context may seem a bit off but I feel like his point is spot on, where we underestimate the nature of the universe based on our current understanding. It can be read into both ways I guess.
Ok. I do agree with you about being open minded. So many things have changed during the sixty years since man first walked on the moon.
But our propulsion system is essentially the same as the WW2 V2 rocket some 80 years ago. Our escape velocity requires a massive force.
And yes, in theory, many things are possible.
But. You can only judge what is claimed to be happening now based upon what we know of now.
And remember, if such UAP/UFO have travelled tens or more likely hundreds of light years to reach our planet now, they would have been launched from wherever well well before humanity discovered the Electro Magnetic Force and hence radio waves which advertise our existence.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/14/leslie-kean-ufo-reporter-us-government-report
Don't know if anyone is interested in the above but I think it's a decent article.
Don't know if anyone is interested in the above but I think it's a decent article.
I read it and while she may be far calmer than many UFO enthusiasts she still seems to be a true believer - so trying to fit the facts to a conclusion rather than forming a convulsion from the facts. Somewhat confirmed in that she is an investigative journalist who writes about only 2 subjects really - UFOs and the afterlife.
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You get most of your news from Guido Fawkes which is one step sideways from David Icke so you really shouldn’t be throwing stones in glass houses mate.
Please don't call me mate... i mean we both know that's the biggest stretch of the imagination in this whole thread
Hold on a sec. Dr Zuruchen wasn't referring to wormholes etc, he was expressing skepticism that UAPs were alien in orging, saying that he thought at best they would be an undiscovered natural phenomenon. Which I could go along with, although I think it's unlikely to be a very interesting (non meteorological) one - because of the energies and probabilities involved.
I’m on the same boat about life being out there, but as you said I don’t find the evidence so far particularly compelling. I do like seeing the debates between you and the others though, many of you (if not all) are far more Informed on these arguments than I am, and it’s insightful for me to see the arguments being played out.
I know he wasn't directly referring to wormholes, but his point ties in well with @Buster15 trying to put constraints on what is actually possible. He says we tend to underestimate nature, nature being the physical universe, and that there's amazing science out there that remains to be discovered. There's theories on whether the universe exists on an infinite amount of wormholes connecting entangled particles, there's experiments like the delayed choice experiment on how time doesn't apply to entangled systems, quantum theory says we don't understand spacetime that well. He says in the past there have been plenty of instances where unidentified cases have been identified, they will use science to understand how life can exist elsewhere, and that they will use tools like the James Webb to help us understand better, he concludes with the quote I used. It's an assumption that he's being particularly skeptical there, I agree with everything he says.
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Trying to put constraints...l did actually say that in theory many things are possible.
And I did actually agree with you that we should be open minded.
Anyway, I prefer to deal with what we know, not what we don't know.
That was more directed at the original post I responded to, I didn't mean for it to sound as snarky as that. Fair enough
That was more directed at the original post I responded to, I didn't mean for it to sound as snarky as that. Fair enough
Yes of course. Fair enough.
Maybe because I am an engineer (retired) and am used to dealing with the data, that I have this view.
There’s a lot of stuff to be discovered for sure. What gives me pause to think UFOs are connected to big ticket undiscovered physics of the type you mention is the giant, cosmic energies involved in unlocking and then utilising it, whether naturally or technologically. There’s a reason why all that stuff is untested and hypothesised only. Any UFO that was a manifestation of fundamentally new physics, would most likely require vast energies and that would be very, very hard not to spot.
Also I think the argument that because we don’t understand X, that means there’s room for UFOs, is a bit god of the gaps for me.
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My question about the videos the Navy have, I don't believe its aliens and must be a cover up for something like in the Area 51 but will a radar track and lock a bird? I'm sure they use the infrared mixed with their radar systems and we should see how fast the "things" are moving. Also why the aliens only show up to the American military and not to for example Spain or any other country outside the 5 Eyes and Ruskies and china? (I wouldn't trust them)