UAP - Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon

oates said:
It's a good list but out of all even Presidents may not be in the loop. Nasa may feel it knows something but there's a gatekeeper like someone within the CIA that knows but won't let someone who comes and goes in 4 to 8 years and would be a security risk following in. Quite wrong of course, democratic? Not, but some group feels only they can be trusted to have, use and disseminate whatever they have, how they like.
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oh absolutely

my list is a list of people or groups of people who are in positions to see something secretive beyond government control is happening, and confirming so with their experiences

for example, the President of the USA will not be involved in the disclosure of Aliens, its way out of their hands and beyond them

But the President and other world leaders are in positions to see things are being kept from them and their governments through secretive organisations with power , and many of these leaders have let slip of their insight
 
TheLiverBird said:
oh absolutely

my list is a list of people or groups of people who are in positions to see something secretive beyond government control is happening, and confirming so with their experiences

for example, the President of the USA will not be involved in the disclosure of Aliens, its way out of their hands and beyond them

But the President and other world leaders are in positions to see things are being kept from them and their governments through secretive organisations with power , and many of these leaders have let slip of their insight
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Yes, I think you are spot on. This is way beyond our reach with any rights we have such as the Freedom of Information Acts in various countries.

What could be happening though if we believe there are such UAPs might be that departments in different countries are sharing some degree of information, not necessarily technical info. otherwise these UAPs belonging solely to one country would form an imbalance of power. Or maybe not at all.
 
What would change in the world if we knew for sure aliens are out there? Assuming they wouldn't care about us at all, we would be just another planet with a primitive species.
 
maniak said:
What would change in the world if we knew for sure aliens are out there? Assuming they wouldn't care about us at all, we would be just another planet with a primitive species.
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Probably lots of people would start going through religious texts proving their god created them and you know wars n stuff... same as always I guess
 
maniak said:
What would change in the world if we knew for sure aliens are out there? Assuming they wouldn't care about us at all, we would be just another planet with a primitive species.
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Depends. If these aliens were from a machine civilisation that had displaced an organic one, I imagine a lot of people on Earth would be very freaked out indeed... Childhood's End and all that. And that's just one scenario. One can imagine a number of those that could be incredibly damaging to our social fabric.

Personally I am still incredibly unconvinced by the shaky quality of the evidence, the lack of any rational explanation of why on earth aliens, if that's what they are, would poke around here in the first place, the usual "experts" who on closer inspection aren't really, and this recasting of UFOs as UAPs in an attempt at adding respectability. Same old story. Are there aliens? Almost certainly. Are they bobbing around randomly here? Almost certainly not.
 
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nimic said:
That's what I would assume any alien would do (though ultimately I don't believe anyone would have made it here). But I also think that if the goal is to monitor without disturbing the natural course of events, staying completely undetected would be a core motivation.
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And really easy. We can image a black hole from 55 million light years away and we're not even that good at it yet. You'd think any advanced alien species would be able to eavesdrop on anyone and anything on this planet completely undetected, from half way across the solar system let alone from within our atmosphere.
 
My theory I’ve just pulled out of my arse is not that it’s Alien technology or that military aircraft technology has reached this level of sophistication but that technology has been developed which is capable of interrupting or interfering with military surveillance devices and this is their way of testing it.
 
The Firestarter said:
Which novel is that? Sounds awful lot like the plot of Half-Life the video game.
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The Mist

About the Half-Life game " The developers of the Half-Life video game series, which also deals with creatures from parallel dimensions breaking through to ours, have listed The Mist among their primary influences for the game plot.[4] The first game in the series was originally going to be called Quiver, as a reference to the Arrowhead Project from The Mist. " Wikipedia
 
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barros said:
The Mist

About the Half-Life game " The developers of the Half-Life video game series, which also deals with creatures from parallel dimensions breaking through to ours, have listed The Mist among their primary influences for the game plot.[4] The first game in the series was originally going to be called Quiver, as a reference to the Arrowhead Project from The Mist. "
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Yeah, for some reason I had missed the backstory for the game despite being a massive fan of that series.
 
Is this an instance of the tic tac from the 2004 IR videos? Apparently navy has confirmed that this video is authentic. Do we have us navy folk here ?

 
Fearless said:
This is a good debunk though..

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Is there a debunk of the exact footage I posted, because there is one in the beginning that looks somewhat similar but is different . He claimed it is F-18 "hovering". These planes have no hovering capability.
 
The Firestarter said:
What I understand by hovering is the changing of the trust vector as harriers and Fat Amy can do?
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No need to even go about the hovering... The speed is orders of magnitude higher with these UFOs than any F18 out there.
 
Nani Nana said:
No need to even go about the hovering... The speed is orders of magnitude higher with these UFOs than any F18 out there.
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Are they? The one which was titled "Go fast", which you'd think means it was going fast, was found to go at about wind speed and was probably a balloon.

Also, orders of magnitude? That would put them in the hundreds of thousands kph.
 
nimic said:
Are they? The one which was titled "Go fast", which you'd think means it was going fast, was found to go at about wind speed and was probably a balloon.

Also, orders of magnitude? That would put them in the hundreds of thousands kph.
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Yes orders of magnitude. I listened to an F18 pilot who sighted UFOs those, I think the Nimitz ones. It was on the Joe Rogan podcast.

He said they went faster than anything man-made, hundreds of thousands kph when accelerating. From the moment they left his field of vision to being sighted on radar hundreds of kms away seconds later.
 
nimic said:
Are they? The one which was titled "Go fast", which you'd think means it was going fast, was found to go at about wind speed and was probably a balloon.

Also, orders of magnitude? That would put them in the hundreds of thousands kph.
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Listen to the 60 minutes interview with the Nimitz(heh) crew. The acceleration reported by them qualitatively and by the radar operator on the AEGIS ship quantitatively, was much higher than any man made aircraft.
 
Nani Nana said:
Yes orders of magnitude. I listened to an F18 pilot who sighted UFOs those, I think the Nimitz ones. It was on the Joe Rogan podcast.

He said they went faster than anything man-made, hundreds of thousands kph when accelerating. From the moment they left his field of vision to being sighted on radar hundreds of kms away seconds later.
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The Firestarter said:
Listen to the 60 minutes interview with the Nimitz(heh) crew. The acceleration reported by them qualitatively and by the radar operator on the AEGIS ship quantitatively, was much higher than any man made aircraft.
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Those have been fairly convincingly explained.





 
nimic said:
Those have been fairly convincingly explained.





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These are military pilots I think they would know within seconds if it was a plane.

There would also be a trail if indeed a plane. In the videos there is no sign of a motor...
 
nimic said:
Those have been fairly convincingly explained.





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Regarding the 2004 Nimtiz incident he raises the hypothesis that Fravor may not have seen and determined the object size correctly. He does not really explain how 4 people of this crew ,
and another crew later saw the same thing.
Also, the whole crew and radar operators saw the sudden acceleration of the object, he does not really explain that.

For the other videos I can't really comment, except the fact that he somehow claims knowledge of the internals of a classified targeting system , by reading "the patents". I find that amusing.
 
In any case, I am not an expert and neither are you two. All we can do is listen to what the experts say and weigh it up. To me, these explanations are way more rational than the alternative.

Even were it a toss-up, it would take a lot more to convince me when a direct consequence would have to be that some alien life-form is powerful and dedicated enough to cross interstellar space - which would take decades, centuries or even longer even with sci-fi technology, or else completely overturn the laws of physics as we understand them with FTL - but not powerful enough to avoid getting spotted literally hundreds of times by the people they committed this monumental effort to observe.

This is a case of extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence. And whatever your conclusions, clearly this evidence isn't extraordinary when it can at least plausibly be explained away.
 
nimic said:
In any case, I am not an expert and neither are you two. All we can do is listen to what the experts say and weigh it up. To me, these explanations are way more rational than the alternative.

Even were it a toss-up, it would take a lot more to convince me when a direct consequence would have to be that some alien life-form is powerful and dedicated enough to cross interstellar space - which would take decades, centuries or even longer even with sci-fi technology, or else completely overturn the laws of physics as we understand them with FTL - but not powerful enough to avoid getting spotted literally hundreds of times by the people they committed this monumental effort to observe.

This is a case of extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence. And whatever your conclusions, clearly this evidence isn't extraordinary when it can at least plausibly be explained away.
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Has any of the pilots claimed that this is indeed interstellar civilization? I think the only thing they claim is, that these are not known aircraft, birds, or balloons.
 
nimic said:
In any case, I am not an expert and neither are you two. All we can do is listen to what the experts say and weigh it up. To me, these explanations are way more rational than the alternative.

Even were it a toss-up, it would take a lot more to convince me when a direct consequence would have to be that some alien life-form is powerful and dedicated enough to cross interstellar space - which would take decades, centuries or even longer even with sci-fi technology, or else completely overturn the laws of physics as we understand them with FTL - but not powerful enough to avoid getting spotted literally hundreds of times by the people they committed this monumental effort to observe.

This is a case of extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence. And whatever your conclusions, clearly this evidence isn't extraordinary when it can at least plausibly be explained away.
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Maybe they came to have a closer look at the cryptocurrency thread.
 
nimic said:
If these things are travelling at hundreds of thousands of kph, inside Earth's atmosphere, then they have to be an interstellar visitor.
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Do you really think we are alone in this gigantic universe? We're not even alone on Planet Earth!
 
Nani Nana said:
Do you really think we are alone in this gigantic universe? We're not even alone on Planet Earth!
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It's incredibly unlikely that we're alone. But the galaxy is a big place, never mind the Universe. Give humanity a billion years and we'll still never, ever make it further than the Local Group (us, Andromeda and a bunch of smaller galaxies). That's just physics for you. Now, travelling within the galaxy is feasible, but if you don't find a way of travelling faster than light (which isn't even possible, as far as we know), you'll always be severely limited. And as I said, if they do have the capability for this immense undertaking, relative primitives like us would never be able to spot them.

Not sure what you mean with your second sentence. Literally every single living thing on the Earth is related. Life only arose once on Earth, or at least only one that led anywhere.
 
nimic said:
I consider it one of my greatest achievements at the Caf that you chose my post to reply to in your first post back from your one day break.
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My thread though

Now get out.
 
nimic said:
In any case, I am not an expert and neither are you two. All we can do is listen to what the experts say and weigh it up. To me, these explanations are way more rational than the alternative.

Even were it a toss-up, it would take a lot more to convince me when a direct consequence would have to be that some alien life-form is powerful and dedicated enough to cross interstellar space - which would take decades, centuries or even longer even with sci-fi technology, or else completely overturn the laws of physics as we understand them with FTL - but not powerful enough to avoid getting spotted literally hundreds of times by the people they committed this monumental effort to observe.

This is a case of extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence. And whatever your conclusions, clearly this evidence isn't extraordinary when it can at least plausibly be explained away.
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I totally agree. A civilisation so sophisticated that they can exist and travel here undetected yet get spotted with the naked eye once here stretches incredulity to breaking point.

Live elsewhere is almost certain but given the Fermi paradox it seems likely that highly evolved civilizations are so rare and/or distant from each other in space and/or time that we don't encounter any signs of each other. It could also be one of the other possibilities e.g. life is common but there is some sort of evolutionary step most don't ever beyond e.g. dolphins are intelligent but haven't evolved into organisms capable of technologically advanced endeavors. And there are lots of other possibilites.

The Fermi Paradox is fascinating and far more worthy of discussion IMO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
 
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Still assuming they're Alien?

They've been spotted continually over the oceans and going in and out of the water. Logically, if they're real, they're probably from the ocean. The USO aspect is more interesting than flying one imo.

Subs from US and Russia supposedly tracked them underwater moving much faster than any known human technology could.
 
Mb194dc said:
Still assuming they're Alien?

They've been spotted continually over the oceans and going in and out of the water. Logically, if they're real, they're probably from the ocean. The USO aspect is more interesting than flying one imo.

Subs from US and Russia supposedly tracked them underwater moving much faster than any known human technology could.
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Hollow Earth confirmed?

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