Tyrone Mings stamp on Zlatan | He’s at it again

Dobbs said:
So you think the decision to charge Zlatan is wrong?
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The only way for it to be right is if the FA decides to retrospectively punish all players with red card offences which the ref judged as not worthy of a red card during the game. Will they be able to do that? If they can't, then it's wrong to pick one player and make an exception to the rules.

Zlatan deserved a red during the game (just like the other Bournemouth player who launched a dangerous studs-up tackle during the game but wasn't sent off), but the ref decided not to give a red card for it. Lucky escape for Zlatan, but he's not the only one to escape a red during a game.
 
Danny1982 said:
The only way for it to be right is if the FA decides to retrospectively punish all players with red card offences which the ref judged as not worthy of a red card during the game. Will they be able to do that? If they can't, then it's wrong to pick one player and make an exception to the rules.

Zlatan deserved a red during the game (just like the other Bournemouth player who launched a dangerous studs-up tackle during the game but wasn't sent off), but the ref decided not to give a red card for it. Lucky escape for Zlatan, but he's not the only one to escape a red during a game.
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They haven't picked out Zlatan as the first one to get this kinda ban. It lacks consistency for sure but it doesn't mean culprits shouldn't be punished.
 
Both should be banned as both stepped over the line.

With the FA's comment I expect Mings to get 5 games, which I think they gave Balotelli when he knocked on Scott Parker's head.

Zlatan should get 3.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
It's a graze, at no point is Ibra's head on the ground while a boot is on top if it. I'm sure it hurt but it's still a glancing blow. I'd take that over an elbow smashed in my face.
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Are you wumming?

kouroux said:
They haven't picked out Zlatan as the first one to get this kinda ban. It lacks consistency for sure but it doesn't mean culprits shouldn't be punished.
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This will be the first case where the ref actually handles the incident but they still decide to overrule the ref and hand a retrospective ban. Consistency is more important to football and to the rules than just punishing somebody randomly for an offence he deserved a red card for during the game.
 
Danny1982 said:
Are you wumming?


This will be the first case where the ref actually handles the incident but they still decide to overrule the ref and hand a retrospective ban. Consistency is more important to football and to the rules than just punishing somebody randomly for an offence he deserved a red card for during the game.
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You are right but for me it doesn't make it an outrage that Ibra got punished in the end. C'est la vie, true 100% fair judgment should never be expected as it will never happen. I'd be angry if Zlatan didn't deserve it but what he did was stupid.
 
You can do a lot of damage with a swinging elbow & not have much control about where / how it lands. At least Mings knows what he's doing, :).
 
Josep Dowling said:
Both should be banned as both stepped over the line.

With the FA's comment I expect Mings to get 5 games, which I think they gave Balotelli when he knocked on Scott Parker's head.

Zlatan should get 3.
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Zlatan has been pushing his luck all season, I thought he might have got a ban for the Coleman head stomp but his luck has ran out. It's up to us how we deal with it now.
 
kouroux said:
You are right but for me it doesn't make it an outrage that Ibra got punished in the end. C'est la vie, true 100% fair judgment should never be expected as it will never happen. I'd be angry if Zlatan didn't deserve it but what he did was stupid.
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I'm not enraged at all. He should have been sent off by the ref and be dealt with during the game. However, I don't like the FA basing their decisions on SKY's or twitter's reactions. They should follow their rules objectively.

And by the way, the court could decide 3-match ban for Ibra and "he deserves it" (if it was the only incident in football), however, the court can't decide on matters the FA don't put in front of them, and here lies the problem.

I think the Ibra ban will make their job more difficult in the future. They drew a line previously on "off the ball incidents, not seen by ref", and now nobody knows where they're gonna draw their next line. I don't think even they do.
 
Danny1982 said:
I'm not enraged at all. He should have been sent off by the ref and be dealt with during the game. However, I don't like the FA basing their decisions on SKY's or twitter's reactions. They should follow their rules objectively.

And by the way, the court could decide 3-match ban for Ibra and "he deserves it" (if it was the only incident in football), however, the court can't decide on matters the FA don't put in front of them, and here lies the problem.

I think the Ibra ban will make their job more difficult in the future. They drew a line previously on "off the ball incidents, not seen by ref", and now nobody knows where they're gonna draw their next line. I don't think even they do.
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The ref will prob just say he didn't see it and was talking to Ibra about the incident with Surman inwhich he went flying to the ground.

I don't think the FA are examining the Ibra throw on Ming's that happened off the ball which started the whole thing. If it wasn't in the referees report I don't think they can add that on to any punishment for the elbow.
 
Massive Spanner said:
A team who we should actually want to be on the level of, not who are also constantly faltering?
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Do you want to qualify for top 4 this year? There is an one spot open for 3 teams, United, Liverpool and Arsenal.
 
AlecHDR said:
Danny Murphy? I am confident that I can build a "Random Sentence Generator" app within an hour and it would make more sense than him.
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:lol::lol::lol: It really is scandalous that Murphy is paid to be a pundit, along with Martin Neanderthal Keown.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
By the way, I presume we all remember this incident?

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I'd say Zlatan can feel fairly hard done by over the double standards on view here.
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The fact that the FA deemed this to be unworthy of punishment is proof that their decisions are heavily influenced by media reaction. This incident received very little media attention, because of course, it was Zlatan being on the receiving end. Imagine if it had been the other way round.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
He didn't stand on his head. He kicked him in the head. So yes, I'd take a kick to the head before I took an elbow to the face.

Fine if others wouldn't. Everyone has their own opinion.
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Head injuries can turn bad very quickly... I've first hand witnessed a seemingly harmless injury result result in a fatality. Don't ever wish for a kick to the head mate ... I'd rather elect to walk on burning coal
 
Shez said:
Head injuries can turn bad very quickly... I've first hand witnessed a seemingly harmless injury result result in a fatality. Don't ever wish for a kick to the head mate ... I'd rather elect to walk on burning coal
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Absolutely. I've dabbled in some martial arts and due to now unpleasant it is getting smacked in the head and how bad I was at it, I killed that pretty quickly.

All head shots aren't created equal though. Mings is going to be punished for how bad it could have been, not how bad it was. Which is all good but I did take issue to so many folks overstating the impact.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
By the way, I presume we all remember this incident?

3AE5346F00000578-3987500-image-a-15_1480536832113.jpg

I'd say Zlatan can feel fairly hard done by over the double standards on view here.
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Wow, I totally forgot about this, and I applaud you for bringing this up. What I still don't understand is that the ref seemingly dealt with Ibra. So how can the FA overrule the ref's decision? Sure he can say that he didn't see it, but what the h*ll were they talking about then together with Rooney? If it was something else he means he saw, why would he want Rooney to "help" during that situation?

If the FA now overrules the ref's decision does this mean a new rule has come to play? Isn't it better to be able to control looking a video sequences during the match instead of this cirkus?

Don't get me wrong, he fully deserves the suspension if he gets it, it's just that the ref already dealt with him. Why not go over all of the ref's decisions? It's not like these things are the only mistakes they make - there have been a lot of mistakes that have ruined things for a lot of teams. But no one cares about that for some reason. Media has already made the decision for the FA.
 
Just catching up on this as missed the game and the initial reactions, and absolutely amazed that people think it wasn't deliberate. I've been playing football for 20+ years and have never come remotely close to stepping on someones head, or ever seen anyone else do it. It's just not possible to do that by mistake. It's really, really fecking easy to step over someone who's lying on the floor without slamming your boot into their head. You can clearly see he shortened his stride to do it FFS!

Then, if by some chance you managed to do that, you'd obviously apologise as soon as you got the chance. I think he just lost his head momentarily, probably because Ibra caught him just before that, but he meant to do it.

As much as the FA are pretty useless and inconsistent in these matters, it looks like they've called this one correctly (so far). I'd give Mings 6 matches and Ibra 3.
 
kouroux said:
They haven't picked out Zlatan as the first one to get this kinda ban. It lacks consistency for sure but it doesn't mean culprits shouldn't be punished.
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Haven't they? How many other offences have happened right in front of a linesman, the player been talked to by the ref and THEN the FA decide to intervene?

If Friend says he was talking to Zlatan about something else, he's talking bollocks!
 
ManUchosenbosslvg said:
The ref will prob just say he didn't see it and was talking to Ibra about the incident with Surman inwhich he went flying to the ground.

I don't think the FA are examining the Ibra throw on Ming's that happened off the ball which started the whole thing. If it wasn't in the referees report I don't think they can add that on to any punishment for the elbow.
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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Haven't they? How many other offences have happened right in front of a linesman, the player been talked to by the ref and THEN the FA decide to intervene?

If Friend says he was talking to Zlatan about something else, he's talking bollocks!
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Just like the poster I quoted you in this post too explains it, I'm afraid Friend can still come up with a bs excuse and say he was adressing some other matter with Zlatan. Referees are too protected and it is a joke IMHO.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Haven't they? How many other offences have happened right in front of a linesman, the player been talked to by the ref and THEN the FA decide to intervene?

If Friend says he was talking to Zlatan about something else, he's talking bollocks!
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Aguero was banned retrospectively for elbowing Reed, and Marriner was right in front of the incident for that one.

Besides, I think they've changed the rule that fa can act retrospectively only if ref missed it. Or have I just made that up ?
 
I think Friend saw what happaned hence talking to Ibra but didn't realise how bad and deliberate it was until he saw the footage.
 
Can't say it's not deserved but I'd have rather had him available for the match on Monday.
 
Didn't the ref already see it and make his decision?? Then how come FA has charged him?
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Didn't the ref already see it and make his decision?? Then how come FA has charged him?
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The ref saw a replay and decided it was worse than he first thought? It obviously deserved a red card and didn't even get a yellow, if we can see that so can the ref.
 
Dave46 said:
Do you want to qualify for top 4 this year? There is an one spot open for 3 teams, United, Liverpool and Arsenal.
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I don't even know what point you're trying to make now? Why wouldn't I want top four? What does it have to do with saying we should be aiming for better than comparing ourselves to those two teams?
 
Ixion said:
The ref saw a replay and decided it was worse than he first thought? It obviously deserved a red card and didn't even get a yellow, if we can see that so can the ref.
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Ok. I thought FA was allowed to make a decision based on replays only if the ref has not seen it or claims not to have seen it in his report.
So if ref says "I saw it, but I bottled it" in his report, FA can still go ahead and charge the player.

Funny that Clattenburg didn't do that after the City match. He claimed to have felt bad about the decisions he took while driving home.
 
AN17 said:
Aguero was banned retrospectively for elbowing Reed, and Marriner was right in front of the incident for that one.

Besides, I think they've changed the rule that fa can act retrospectively only if ref missed it. Or have I just made that up ?
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Yip but the ref (Marriner?) stated in his report that he didn't see it and his linesman didn't..... which begs the question of why aren't refs banned if they miss stuff like that... or bring in TMOs.

Friend had no reason to call Zlatan over other than for that collision. He'll say he saw the two jump but followed the ball and didn't catch the elbow... he gets let off for being a sh!te ref, Zlatan gets banned and everyone's a winner.

I've got no issue with the end result of a ban but I have got an issue with how they get there... trial by TV as it depends on your club. United make headlines for everything and some outlets (especially the BBC) can't wait to pile on.... Lineker's tweets about United are so biased it's unbelievable and Danny Murphy on MOTD was falling over himself to say Mings stamp was accidental... kernob.
 
Janson said:
I think Friend saw what happaned hence talking to Ibra but didn't realise how bad and deliberate it was until he saw the footage.
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This.

"The FRA (Football Regulatory Authority) has now given its approval so that The FA will be able to consider retrospective action in the two following situations, in addition to those already within the existing charging policy:
  • firstly, for acts of violent conduct that occur secondarily to a challenge for the ball;
  • and secondly, in off-the-ball incidents where one or more match official did see the players coming together, but the match officials’ view was such that none of them had the opportunity to make a decision on an act of misconduct that took place within that coming together."

Fine, if they choose to use point.1 of the law to ban Zlatan.... but got to do it every time now, for every player and for every team (not just the ones that the media/social media dictate).

If he's banned, I'd like United to make a short statement (or get 'fed' a question at the next press conference) saying they accept the FA decision and now expect the FA to review every game and look for other incidents that meet the criteria of point 1 or 2.
 
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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Yip but the ref (Marriner?) stated in his report that he didn't see it and his linesman didn't..... which begs the question of why aren't refs banned if they miss stuff like that... or bring in TMOs.

Friend had no reason to call Zlatan over other than for that collision. He'll say he saw the two jump but followed the ball and didn't catch the elbow... he gets let off for being a sh!te ref, Zlatan gets banned and everyone's a winner.

I've got no issue with the end result of a ban but I have got an issue with how they get there... trial by TV as it depends on your club. United make headlines for everything and some outlets (especially the BBC) can't wait to pile on.... Lineker's tweets about United are so biased it's unbelievable and Danny Murphy on MOTD was falling over himself to say Mings stamp was accidental... kernob.
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Genuinely don't think any possible ban for Ibra is agenda driven or because FA decided to act on media uproar. To me it looks like Friend on watching the replay decided he misjudged the gravity of the incident and decided to save his skin by telling he didn't see the elbow, similar to the Aguero incident.
 
AN17 said:
Genuinely don't think any possible ban for Ibra is agenda driven or because FA decided to act on media uproar. To me it looks like Friend on watching the replay decided he misjudged the gravity of the incident and decided to save his skin by telling he didn't see the elbow, similar to the Aguero incident.
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This one probably isn't but generally I think there's a "nasty big boys" versus "plucky little clubs" mentality that definitely impacts on how incidents are portrayed. For example, Adrian studding Zlatan in the knee earlier this season got hardly any coverage, even though Twattenberg admitted he'd made mistakes in the game.

Friend saw something.... he wasn't talking about Ikea's meatballs. As I've said, got no issue with the end result (the ban), it's how they get there and doing it for all clubs/instances.
 
Bournemouth have appealed the Mings charge. So basically condoning this disgusting stamp, even if he says it's unintentional it doesn't look good for him on camera, and it won't look good for Bournemouth appealing.
Hope they add to the ban, frivolous appeal.
 
noodlehair said:
It's fairly obvious both should be banned. I know it technically should be "off the ball" and Zlatan's wasn't, but it's so blatant that it'd set a worse precedent not to punish it.

The only thing I don't get is HOW the ref managed to miss both of them. In the replay he was very clearly looking straight at Zlatan as he elbowed Mings in the face. So is he now saying he didn't see it and would have sent him off if he had? Because if he didn't see it, what WAS he looking at?

He was refereeing the game by staring at where the ball was but not actually looking at what was happening?
I mean I really have no qualm with Zlatan being banned for elbowing someone in the face, but that makes the referee very clearly a liar...and if you're allowing people who you know are prepared to lie about what they see, act as referees, you really have no integrity to base anything on.

There's been so many incidents similar to this over the past few months, where a ref seems to have clearly seen something and just decided to ignore it or pretend it was something else.
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It's a completely flawed system. We have a situation now where nobody is allowed to ciriticise referee's, nor are they allowed to explain themselves, and yet the FA don't allow for there referee's to make mistakes/be human.

It would be easier if after a game, a referee could go through the game, say what they get right, and what they got wrong and they could issue out punishments/take away red and yellow cards based on that.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
It's a completely flawed system. We have a situation now where nobody is allowed to ciriticise referee's, nor are they allowed to explain themselves, and yet the FA don't allow for there referee's to make mistakes/be human.

It would be easier if after a game, a referee could go through the game, say what they get right, and what they got wrong and they could issue out punishments/take away red and yellow cards based on that.
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Yeah, but the other problem is you get these situations where the ref does see what happens, and seems to just decide to pretend they didn't see it. Like with Zlatan, or with Barkley earlier in the season in the Merseyside derby.

You also get situations, particularly involving Mike Dean, where the ref will invent something that never actually happened, which again is difficult to comprehend. I can understand a referee making a mistake by not seeing something, or not having the benefit of seeing it clearly...but when they see something that never happened and never looked like it did, that's difficult to understand.

Best example is Dean at the start of the season giving penalties for shirt pulling or obstruction from corners, when it wasn't actually happening. It was like he just decided before the game he would give a penalty for it, and guessed when it would happen. Dean in particular seems to just reinvent the rules as he goes along, often mid game.

It does come down to the system being flawed. There's no quality control at all, because no one can question a referee's decision. A referee isn't required to explain his decision to anyone. Yet players are freely allowed to hound them during the game. The easy option for the referee is therefore to just make whatever the easiest decision is at the time. They don't have to worry about the integrity of the decision, or whether it's accurate, because there's no consequence if it isn't. There isn't even any questioning. How often in literally any other sport do you not know why an official made a decision? It literally never happens. Only in football.

The whole point of having referees is to add integrity to the rules. If you don't even know which rules they're applying or when, why etc. then that integrity just isn't there. The system is so fecked it'd actually be fairer to just let everyone get on with it then referee retrospectively after each game.
 
I think Zlatan basically conned the ref, he tried to make the elbow look like it was part of his jump for the ball. The ref from his angle bought it but had a word with him about being careful with his elbows or something. He then watched it back and saw it was worse than he thought and puts that in his report.
 
drdoityourself said:
Bournemouth have appealed the Mings charge. So basically condoning this disgusting stamp, even if he says it's unintentional it doesn't look good for him on camera, and it won't look good for Bournemouth appealing.
Hope they add to the ban, frivolous appeal.
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Mugs, the FA already made it clear they're going to come down hard on him, appealing is just going to make the situation worse.
 
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