I touched on these things in one of my earlier posts.
I don't know exactly how they are going to go about the next films but this is how the last film finished:
Two more Matrix films announced?
- Thread starter Kaos
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I touched on these things in one of my earlier posts.
I don't know exactly how they are going to go about the next films but this is how the last film finished:
The Matrix storyline is fantastic, whatever your opinion on the films is, if you go into the story and read the story beyond the films you understand it a lot more. It's very biblical with so many references and people don't view the films how they should because they don't understand the story behind it.
I'm not sure how the films will continue to involve Neo because after he died the machines kept hold of the bodyand wouldn't release it.
I'm not sure how the films will continue to involve Neo because after he died the machines kept hold of the bodyand wouldn't release it.
Actually yes, the humans moved to a new home called New Zion and the truce was over.
Good to see someone else that has seen the films for what they are.
I spent years playing MxO hehe, I love the story. It's so comprehensive and interesting. Seraphs back story is fascinating.
To be honest, after the first movie I completely stopped trying to figure out the story. The first is one of my all time favourites. The second was decent entertainment, and the third should be taken out behind the shed and shot. I don't give a shit about "what really happened". For me the only Matrix is the first one.
You hear that argument a lot from fans of a certain type of sci-fi/fantasy movie that dies on it's arse in the cinema but attracts a bit of a cult following on t'internet afterwards.
Surely any movie should be coherent enough to work as a story in it's own right without the viewer being forced to read a whole load of background material off the world wide web in order to work out what the feck was going on?
If you look at the really great films of this genre, the one thing they all have in common is an entirely self-contained universe and a tight, coherent narrative. You never hear someone saying that you needed to read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" to work enjoy watching Blade Runner. That's because it's a ripping yarn all by itself.
Obviously, there are some complexities which might not be obvious at first viewing and become a bit more obvious after a bit of background reading (or repeat viewing) but if the basic narrative is as muddled, over-wrought and downright boring as the third Matrix movie then it's fair to say it's not a very good film.
I think you smoke something, i'm not upset that Neo isn't beating stuff up on the screen. I was 18 when I watch it, it kinda looks as a revolution in action movies, was great, but it's more than that. It really disturb my understanding of life and everything. What if we're just some advance computer generated programs that serves as simulations for the whomever playing us.
It's brilliant in a way inception was brilliant, it invokes the questioning of life itself, something not every movie capable of. I did watch the animatrix, and that's leading up to the 1st matrix, which was good and exceptional.
I did not make it shit, the brothers made it shit when they decided the bullshit with oracles, and stuff. It seems that they're undecided on which path is the real reality.
Personally I thought the basic Matrix Storyline was linear enough to be understandable and enjoyed the first time I watched them.
Neo is the One > Neo Must Find Out What This Means > Neo Must Find Out What He Has To Do > Neo Does What Is Needed.
Like I said though, it's been wrongly percieved as an action movie and the people who are calling it "shit" are just upset that it is not all about Neo kicking a whole lot of ass before he kills the machines and saves the day and everyone lives happily ever after.
I'd compare it to Inception. It doesn't hand things to you on a plate it leaves you to go away and think about it and put the peices together yourself. Why shouldn't a blockbuster movie do this? People knew they were expecting a bit of Mystery when they watched Inception but despite the first Matrix being a Mystery in exactly the same way as Inception, because it was the action sequences that got the most attention, people went into the sequels expecting something different.
"It's been wrongly perceived as an action movie".
I had to repeat that to myself a few times before I realized you're serious.
I had to repeat that to myself a few times before I realized you're serious.
I understand that it's more than action flick, which is why i'm quite disappointed they emphasized on the action side in evolution and reloaded.
IMO the matrix trilogy is only living on the first instalment, let's face it we love the first one, we will still watch the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th because it's the Matrix hey, but if you cut out the 1st, nobody's gonna give a flying feck about some mega budget fantasy action sci fi.
You of all people should know that revolution and reloaded is where the movie got distorted beyond any understanding.
PS: You don't catch the irony don't you on my first post?
I didn't think Inception was all that great either but at least the narrative didn't get lost in a load of wooly mysticism. You knew what you were getting with Inception and it delivered. The second and third Matrix movies tried incredibly hard but delivered very little.
By definition it is an action movie because it contains action.
What I mean is: Die Hard is an Action Movie, it's sole purpose is to have a simple plot which allows for lots of shooting, swearing and blowing up shit.
Inception is not considered an "Action Movie", it is a Science Fiction Mystery because while it does contain "Action" the purpose of the film is to tell it's story, a story of breaking into dreams and influencing peoples thoughts.
The Matrix is much more like Inception in that if you rewrote it so there was no action scenes you would still have a very clever story line which is what the writers want to get across to you, wheras Die Hard's sole reason for being made was to increase your adrenaline levels and give you a buzz where you don't have to think you just watch and enjoy.
^ It takes a fanboy years of cult practicing to be able to graps the ending of matrix. How many of us honestly understand what revolution and reloaded was all about?
Without the action part the matrix is just thoughts and ideas,
We get your point fanboy, nobody's saying the Matrix is a mindless action, we get it, we really do.
I still regard the first matrix as the only good one.
This is the point I'm trying to make, I enjoyed the action in the Matrix as much as the next person but it is the storyline that facinated me so when I did my research and saw that the Watchowski's had a real story to tell, I didn't go in looking to switch off and enjoy the action I really made a concious effort to follow it much like I did with Inception.
The problem is that the reason Joel Silver the Producer is involved in this is because he knows the Action side sells and he will once again market it as an Action flick and it'll do well commercially because of it. Critically I think it would do alot better if it was marketed as a continuation of the Matrix fantasy story.
That is exactly what i'm saying in the first place
You just can't understand sarcasm
/facepalm
Reverting to insults and mockery because I have a different opinion of the flims? Nice.
You don't like thoughts and ideas?
I don't see why it bothers you so much?
That's your opinion, I don't have a problem with that, I choose to enjoy them all as a trilogy (You will probably want to stop reading now) but I'm glad there is more planned because while it brought Neo's stint as "The 6th One" to a close they left the Human vs Machine story open. The machines are still opressing the Human's and as I said before in other religions and mythology that the Watchowski's have leant from, "the 7th" is the important one.
Sorry, but you'll need to change the tone and internation in your voice a bit more next time.
I'd label the Matrix films in the 'Sci-Fci Thriller/Action'. genre.
If they make 2 more I desperately hope they -
1. Go back to the Plato-style techno philosophy that we can all relate to.
2. Go back to basing the films on the actual story line.
3. Stay away from the gratuitous fight scenes.
4. Stay TOTALLY clear of the God awful 'battle scenes' containing characters that have no background and thus we don't care about.
5. Make the story ABOUT NEO - he's the protagonist ffs.
If they could manage this I think the Matrix series could probably manage even more additions than the proposed ones. After all, the general premise of the Matrix (what seems real is not real, and you are being tricked into this false reality by an unseen foe) is an idea that is thousands of years old, and will never get stale.
1. Go back to the Plato-style techno philosophy that we can all relate to.
2. Go back to basing the films on the actual story line.
3. Stay away from the gratuitous fight scenes.
4. Stay TOTALLY clear of the God awful 'battle scenes' containing characters that have no background and thus we don't care about.
5. Make the story ABOUT NEO - he's the protagonist ffs.
If they could manage this I think the Matrix series could probably manage even more additions than the proposed ones. After all, the general premise of the Matrix (what seems real is not real, and you are being tricked into this false reality by an unseen foe) is an idea that is thousands of years old, and will never get stale.
To be fair, it had great action, quality effects such as bullet time and an adrenalin pumping soundtrack - all in all a very good cinema movie. The other two were pants, though. But yeah, it did everything it was supposed to do... entertain, like all action movies should.
It also had a neat and interesting premise. We're all glorified fuel cells, living in fish-tanks and the world is a simulation pumped into our cortex. Once you realise that reality ios virtual you can learn to manipulate it "there is no spoon". That's a quality idea for a movie right there.
A great idea for one movie though. Not three. As with most sequels/trilogies there's a law of ever-diminishing returns once they decided to cash in on a great idea and stretch it out over 6 hours or so of film.
Personally i thought the woman playing the oracle dying and the over reliance on CGI really lessened the second and third films.
The fight between Neo and Smith in the first film is gritty and just two actors, some great cameras and some strings. The one between them in the second is a lot of lookalikes (some painfully obvious) and then some average CGI that goes on a bit too long and looks a bit silly.
The fight between Neo and Smith in the first film is gritty and just two actors, some great cameras and some strings. The one between them in the second is a lot of lookalikes (some painfully obvious) and then some average CGI that goes on a bit too long and looks a bit silly.
Yeah, it's definitely got replay value for that reason alone. I actually think it's a much better movie than the vastly overrated and overhyped Inception.
Word.
Matrix concept >>>>>>> dream-within-a-dream-that-actually-looks-nothing-like-a-dream concept.
That's it in a nutshell, really.
The Matrix was good. I haven't seen 2 or 3. I won't see these, either.
Yea don't, you are lucky to have a great film unspoilt.
Yes. Dreams should be surreal, they clearly missed an opportunity to explore the plot's vast premise. I saw Paprika(I think it was an adaptation of a Japanese novel) a couple of years back which had the exact same storyline(Nolan plagiarised it)...the major difference was that it'd didn't attempt to ram the plot down our throats....and the dream within dream sequences felt like all dreams do... surreal.
I wonder which film they'll be telling us is the best thing ever, this year...
Yes! You're bang on, Inception is basically a remaking of Paprika and Total Recall.
And of course, all three movies are simply a retelling of the "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" short story by Philip K Dick. At least Total Recall's makers/studio had the decency to admit it!
That said, I loved all 3 films. And I actually enjoyed Inception more than Paprika.
I've not read that. Is it any good? I actually think Blade Runner was a lot better than 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?'. I think one of the problems I had with the novel, was that I had seen Blade Runner a few times prior to reading DADoES.
It's fantastic, yeah! And at around 20 pages long it's a breeze to read.
You can find it in volume 5 of PKD's 'collected short stories'. Volume 5 also has the utter amazing 'The Electric Ant', 'Faith Of Our Fathers' and 'War With The Fnools' all of which are brilliant, mind bending tales of paranoia and deceptive realities.
I highly recommend getting hold of all 5 compilations of his short stories. Many hardcore PKD fans actually think his best work is contained within his short story writing, and although I personally feel that's a bit unfair on his best novels - Ubik, Valis, Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, The Penultimate Truth - I would agree that his talent for coming up with neat, interesting and thought provoking ideas and then summing them up in 20 pages or less was almost other-worldly in it's brilliance.
It's fantastic, yeah! And at around 20 pages long it's a breeze to read.
You can find it in volume 5 of PKD's 'collected short stories'. Volume 5 also has the utter amazing 'The Electric Ant', 'Faith Of Our Fathers' and 'War With The Fnools' all of which are brilliant, mind bending tales of paranoia and deceptive realities.
I highly recommend getting hold of all 5 compilations of his short stories. Many hardcore PKD fans actually think his best work is contained within his short story writing, and although I personally feel that's a bit unfair on his best novels - Ubik, Valis, Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, The Penultimate Truth - I would agree that his talent for coming up with neat, interesting and thought provoking ideas and then summing them up in 20 pages or less was almost other-worldly in it's brilliance.
Ahh, once I finish Carnivale and Band of Brothers, I'm going to start reading again. I seem to struggle with multi-tasking.
On the Inception point, while I agree that Matrix is superior....my dreams have never been Lynch or Sopranos-esque surreal -_-
Look into the art of Lucid Dreaming, my appropriately named friend. You shall not be disappointed!
Have you ever had a waking dream? it's fecking immense. For a strange reason you have this inexplicable urge to fly. It's fun.
Props to Pexbo and Zarlak. Regardless of whether one likes those films or not, (I didn't) as soon as one recognized what they were trying to do, one absolutely had to give them some respect for trying something so ambitious. It's a fantastic exploration of our current understanding of how we synthesize experience and all that this process entails on a personal and societal level.
Those two films are an ode to the mechanisms of experience (Information/Architect v. Ignorance/Oracle) that give rise to the human notion of belief; even the darker aspects of it: Smith, for example, in believing that the sum of his sensory input indicates he is supposed to defeat Neo, cannot choose not to kill Neo, thereby rendering the result of his equation immutable and fixed. We know this process by a simpler name: obsession.
Together Smith/Neo represent the extremes of our obsession and acceptance. But while the films do touch upon the probabilistic nature 'the equation trying to balance itself' of innate ability as 'anomalies' created by a finite spectrum of human ability, strangely they fail to develop the Morpheus/Neo relationship to illustrate the way social constructs project power onto those of perceived greater ability than ourselves, which is strange considering one of their messages seems to be that the objects of our idolization are of no greater or lesser significance than any of us in the great scheme of things.
The Merovingian on the other hand is in one aspect a counterpoint to Neo/Smith, as he is a character who uses that socially derived power to indulge his appetites, instead of a synthesized 'higher' purpose. He is the Neo that Morpheus didn't find. The Neo that - sans belief instilled in him via social construct - goes on to acquire the omniscient power of The One ("where others see chance, I see consequence") without purpose. Hence his desire for 'the eyes of the Oracle'.
All that being said, if a viewer didn't know even one element of the religious tapestry (mainly Hindu/Buddhist/Judeo-Christian), then they only have the onscreen elements to guide them, and the whole story dissolves in what appears to be its own needlessly frothy internal logic. Maybe they could have done a better job making the films more accessible. There is no Spoony.
And there also wouldn't be any Matrix without the people to power the programs that created it. But that's the point of the 'light vision' where 'blind' Neo can see every minute piece of data for what it is, instead of our social projections of it ("the construct"). If you want to get computery, he's hacked Mother Nature's database, which supercedes the Architect's, which is based in natural principle. And this in turn gives him (Neo) Omniscience which leads to "equivalence"* v Omnipotence confined to physical influence (Smith)
*Neo can see how everything in existence is of equal weight, so he cannot make any moral judgments of any kind. Which leaves him with pure choice. In the end he's effectively reduced to pure free will, untainted by any value system whatsoever. (Even 'Love' has left him) That's brilliant stuff. And it's is the opposite of Smith, who is pure "I am smart, I am powerful, so I am supposed to come out on top."
Those two films are an ode to the mechanisms of experience (Information/Architect v. Ignorance/Oracle) that give rise to the human notion of belief; even the darker aspects of it: Smith, for example, in believing that the sum of his sensory input indicates he is supposed to defeat Neo, cannot choose not to kill Neo, thereby rendering the result of his equation immutable and fixed. We know this process by a simpler name: obsession.
Together Smith/Neo represent the extremes of our obsession and acceptance. But while the films do touch upon the probabilistic nature 'the equation trying to balance itself' of innate ability as 'anomalies' created by a finite spectrum of human ability, strangely they fail to develop the Morpheus/Neo relationship to illustrate the way social constructs project power onto those of perceived greater ability than ourselves, which is strange considering one of their messages seems to be that the objects of our idolization are of no greater or lesser significance than any of us in the great scheme of things.
The Merovingian on the other hand is in one aspect a counterpoint to Neo/Smith, as he is a character who uses that socially derived power to indulge his appetites, instead of a synthesized 'higher' purpose. He is the Neo that Morpheus didn't find. The Neo that - sans belief instilled in him via social construct - goes on to acquire the omniscient power of The One ("where others see chance, I see consequence") without purpose. Hence his desire for 'the eyes of the Oracle'.
All that being said, if a viewer didn't know even one element of the religious tapestry (mainly Hindu/Buddhist/Judeo-Christian), then they only have the onscreen elements to guide them, and the whole story dissolves in what appears to be its own needlessly frothy internal logic. Maybe they could have done a better job making the films more accessible. There is no Spoony.
And there also wouldn't be any Matrix without the people to power the programs that created it. But that's the point of the 'light vision' where 'blind' Neo can see every minute piece of data for what it is, instead of our social projections of it ("the construct"). If you want to get computery, he's hacked Mother Nature's database, which supercedes the Architect's, which is based in natural principle. And this in turn gives him (Neo) Omniscience which leads to "equivalence"* v Omnipotence confined to physical influence (Smith)
*Neo can see how everything in existence is of equal weight, so he cannot make any moral judgments of any kind. Which leaves him with pure choice. In the end he's effectively reduced to pure free will, untainted by any value system whatsoever. (Even 'Love' has left him) That's brilliant stuff. And it's is the opposite of Smith, who is pure "I am smart, I am powerful, so I am supposed to come out on top."
The good thing about his short stories is that they really are short. I often read one or two while I'm in the middle of reading something else. They require no commitment at all (something I have a problem with when it comes to reading).
I'm half way to agreeing with this. After the first Matrix I got quite into the backround story with Animatrix, and that cool computer game that ran in parralel with the second film.
Problem was the second and third films didn't have the same effect of maintaining interest in the concept (the third film pretty much killed it off).
I think they created themselves a pretty cool world and ideal in which to make more films with the first movie, made a poor job of following that up with the second, and then did some possibly irrepairable damage to said world/ideal with the cheesy third effort.