Turkish referendum

)_( said:
Hasn't he more or less already done this the past few months since the coup? You'd think people would've gone to the streets to protest the mass arrests and firings already.

I think he already said that a no vote wouldn't be the end of it a while back but no point speculating about it no, we first need to actually get that no vote. Let's hope that the majority of the voters show some sense!
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I'm saying it based on the possibility that the people would feel vindicated to go out on the streets and oppose him. It's a single event that can trigger people at the same moment, instead of allowing themselves to be gradually demoralised in the face of sporadic clampdowns.

Cheesy said:
Yeah it's pretty awful, hopefully there'll be protests if Erdogan wins but unfortunately he'll get his own way no doubt.
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I think you're right, he would.

Update - they stopped sending out results when the Yes percentage dropped and haven't included typically liberal strongholds in the final vote as of yet. They're clawing to fix it right now and ensure Turkey becomes theirs.
 
Fener1907 said:
I'm saying it based on the possibility that the people would feel vindicated to go out on the streets and oppose him. It's a single event that can trigger people at the same moment, instead of allowing themselves to be gradually demoralised in the face of sporadic clampdowns.
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Fair enough! My dad's been saying for at least a year now that he thinks there will be a civil war in Turkey, dunno how much of that is conspiracy theory thinking or if it's actually based in reality somewhat.

It seems like Erdogan lost some of the areas that generally vote for him so it makes you wonder where else he'd get the votes from to get a majority. It's not like an AKP majority is guaranteed in general elections and I can't imagine many non-AKP people would vote yes in this referendum, but then again I couldn't imagine a lot of things yet people have continued to amaze me to my great disappointment.
 
Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 said:
@Fener1907, you were right! It's getting closer and closer atm.
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What you're seeing right now is them attempting to mitigate their losses. Once you've seen enough elections, you can read them like a bad book.

)_( said:
Fair enough! My dad's been saying for at least a year now that he thinks there will be a civil war in Turkey, dunno how much of that is conspiracy theory thinking or if it's actually based in reality somewhat.

It seems like Erdogan lost some of the areas that generally vote for him so it makes you wonder where else he'd get the votes from to get a majority. It's not like an AKP majority is guaranteed in general elections and I can't imagine many non-AKP people would vote yes in this referendum, but then again I couldn't imagine a lot of things yet people have continued to amaze me to my great disappointment.
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When they're allowing votes that otherwise wouldn't officially be recongised, let's be honest, what kind of Turkish people are going to be throwing in the votes? We know it's their people who do this stuff.

I think your dad is somewhat justified on the speculation about a civil war. After all, hasn't RTE been raising his own personal army? It was his goons who went out onto the streets during the coup attempt to stare down the soldiers. I'm still more inclined to think it would be another coup attempt, assuming the Kemalists within the military feel bold enough and strong enough. They can't do any worse than last time, which wasn't a proper coup.
 
We are defeated but this did not feel like a defeat. For example, the Brexit votes were more or less the same as the referandum in Turkey but this was more of a vote of confidence for RTE. He lost a very serious percentage of his supporters. If the opposition can come up with better leaders than an empty glass, then the good days are surely ahead.
 
Fener1907 said:
What you're seeing right now is them attempting to mitigate their losses. Once you've seen enough elections, you can read them like a bad book.



When they're allowing votes that otherwise wouldn't officially be recongised, let's be honest, what kind of Turkish people are going to be throwing in the votes? We know it's their people who do this stuff.

I think your dad is somewhat justified on the speculation about a civil war. After all, hasn't RTE been raising his own personal army? It was his goons who went out onto the streets during the coup attempt to stare down the soldiers. I'm still more inclined to think it would be another coup attempt, assuming the Kemalists within the military feel bold enough and strong enough. They can't do any worse than last time, which wasn't a proper coup.
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I just don't think the Turkish people can stomach another coup tbh, whether they're pro or against RTE and a coup is even more destabilising and probably would lead to a civil war which isn't good for anyone involved.
Normally constitutional changes like these wouldn't take place with such a slim margin but obviously, RTE isn't a normal person. I really don't know what to expect for the future of Turkey. I am lucky in the sense that I don't have to face those changes living abroad but also don't know when I will visit again with the country being in this condition and Turkish-Dutch citizens being held in Turkey recently. Though in this country 60+ percent of the Turks that voted, voted yes which says a lot about the Turkish community here.

At the same time, the fact that it's even this close says a lot looking at the fact that they've tried their hardest to ban no campaigning and yes campaigning was everywhere.
 
)_( said:
I just don't think the Turkish people can stomach another coup tbh, whether they're pro or against RTE and a coup is even more destabilising and probably would lead to a civil war which isn't good for anyone involved.
Normally constitutional changes like these wouldn't take place with such a slim margin but obviously, RTE isn't a normal person. I really don't know what to expect for the future of Turkey. I am lucky in the sense that I don't have to face those changes living abroad but also don't know when I will visit again with the country being in this condition and Turkish-Dutch citizens being held in Turkey recently. Though in this country 60+ percent of the Turks that voted, voted yes which says a lot about the Turkish community here.

At the same time, the fact that it's even this close says a lot looking at the fact that they've tried their hardest to ban no campaigning and yes campaigning was everywhere.
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I'm not sure if the Turkish people can stomach so many more years of this. He'll take a 0.1% victory and go crazy with that. Considering the widespread corruption on top of the fact that the No campaign has been so heavily suppressed, it really does say a lot about the referendum and the real desire of Turkish people. I'd have actually considered a move to Turkey in the event that it rejected him. If they go through with this and declare him the victor, there's no chance whatsoever of that happening.
 
)_( said:
I just don't think the Turkish people can stomach another coup tbh, whether they're pro or against RTE and a coup is even more destabilising and probably would lead to a civil war which isn't good for anyone involved.
Normally constitutional changes like these wouldn't take place with such a slim margin but obviously, RTE isn't a normal person. I really don't know what to expect for the future of Turkey. I am lucky in the sense that I don't have to face those changes living abroad but also don't know when I will visit again with the country being in this condition and Turkish-Dutch citizens being held in Turkey recently. Though in this country 60+ percent of the Turks that voted, voted yes which says a lot about the Turkish community here.

At the same time, the fact that it's even this close says a lot looking at the fact that they've tried their hardest to ban no campaigning and yes campaigning was everywhere.
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It baffles my Turkish friend that a lot of ex-pats vote yes. She voted no last Sunday.
The yes ex-pats remind me of the Brit ones on the Costa del Sol voting for Brexit.
 
Fergies Gum said:
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Again, this is the Anadolu Agency - Erdoğan's. They wouldn't say anything else. This election is an absolute farce, just like they wanted it to be. The question now is whether Turkey's opposition has the balls to stand up to them and not let them steal the country's future so brazenly.
 
Jippy said:
It baffles my Turkish friend that a lot of ex-pats vote yes. She voted no last Sunday.
The yes ex-pats remind me of the Brit ones on the Costa del Sol voting for Brexit.
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They're a weird bunch are a lot of Turkish expats. They want all of the brilliant liberal upsides to living in Europe, while firmly believing in the autocracy of Erdoğan.
 
Fener1907 said:
Again, this is the Anadolu Agency - Erdoğan's. They wouldn't say anything else. This election is an absolute farce, just like they wanted it to be. The question now is whether Turkey's opposition has the balls to stand up to them and not let them steal the country's future so brazenly.
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Yep, its sickening how they're not even trying to hide the vote rigging going on, because they know they'll get away with it.
 
Jippy said:
It baffles my Turkish friend that a lot of ex-pats vote yes. She voted no last Sunday.
The yes ex-pats remind me of the Brit ones on the Costa del Sol voting for Brexit.
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There's a stark difference between Turks in Germany or the Netherlands where 60+% voted yes and those in the UK and US where more or less 15% voted yes.
Many of these people came here from the Turkish countryside so often already more conservative than the general population in Turkey and they see/hear about new roads and bridges and they think everything is great. That's legit the argument you hear here. The funny thing is, when a Turkish minister was refused entry of the Netherlands a lot of people went to Rotterdam to protest this, and some Turkish guys could be overheard saying, one warning the other that they should calm down or they would get arrested and the other responding "no don't worry, this isn't Turkey" and yet they are protesting in support of RTE who isn't really a fan of protests himself.
 


Right now, I'd gladly accept anything that doesn't result in those bastards standing on a balcony and waving to their mouth-breathing legions.
 
Fener1907 said:
They're a weird bunch are a lot of Turkish expats. They want all of the brilliant liberal upsides to living in Europe, while firmly believing in the autocracy of Erdoğan.
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)_( said:
There's a stark difference between Turks in Germany or the Netherlands where 60+% voted yes and those in the UK and US where more or less 15% voted yes.
Many of these people came here from the Turkish countryside so often already more conservative than the general population in Turkey and they see/hear about new roads and bridges and they think everything is great. That's legit the argument you hear here. The funny thing is, when a Turkish minister was refused entry of the Netherlands a lot of people went to Rotterdam to protest this, and some Turkish guys could be overheard saying, one warning the other that they should calm down or they would get arrested and the other responding "no don't worry, this isn't Turkey" and yet they are protesting in support of RTE who isn't really a fan of protests himself.
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Certainly seems that way. It's remarkable that people can brush off the purges, even joking about state control!

My friend is from Ankara and highly educated, plus she's staunchly socialist, so not swayed the propaganda.
Just sad for her and where her country is headed. She's convinced he won't last that long, but as others have said, that will inevitably lead to more loss of life.

Seems the yes vote is nailed on now and I can't see any challenge working.
 
Fecker needs to be taken out. He is the leader of a NATO member nation still he acts like some tyrant ruling a banana republic.
 
Kaos said:
Where exactly is this support coming from? The elderly and Conservative Muslims? The latter I can understand but with the former I'd imagine they'd be appalled to see Atatturk's secular vision being torn apart.
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Under the secularists the eastern Turks in particular were ignored, the only thing that mattered was being European and copying them. Today those same Turks have been empowered by Attaturk, those forced to abide by secularist rule are today free to practice thier religion. The Ottoman brand is on the rise, its a symbol of national pride. Istanbul is full of young women in hijabs, something that was impossible until recently.
 


"We won! Well, kinda. We know we're going to win, because... just keep waving. Wait, am I saying these things out loud?"

The idiots continue to cheer their election fraud victory. There are still so many votes waiting to be counted.
 
Fener1907 said:
They're a weird bunch are a lot of Turkish expats. They want all of the brilliant liberal upsides to living in Europe, while firmly believing in the autocracy of Erdoğan.
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Doesn't he have a legacy/image as a man of development? (alongside his religious appeal)
 
Sad to see this great country descend into totalitarianism.
 
berbatrick said:
Doesn't he have a legacy/image as a man of development? (alongside his religious appeal)
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Erdoğan? He became successful on the back of work done by members of the AKP that have since left or been hung out to dry e.g. the Gülenists. Look at how the economy's performed in the last year now that he's shed the real brains of the operation. It's been predictably woeful.

They support him for the cult of personality as much as anything else. They're a similar breed of dog that forms the core support of the "alt-right" - ready and willing to obey.
 
Fener1907 said:
Erdoğan? He became successful on the back of work done by members of the AKP that have since left or been hung out to dry e.g. the Gülenists. Look at how the economy's performed in the last year now that he's shed the real brains of the operation. It's been predictably woeful.

They support him for the cult of personality as much as anything else. They're a similar breed of dog that forms the core support of the "alt-right" - ready and willing to obey.
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Yes, I meant historically. I imagine that's the image the migrants/ex-pats have of him, from when they left, or that's the image the media they read builds up.
 
Fener1907 said:
The problem is, it's close enough for him to corrupt and claim a last minute push to victory.
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To sum up, this is exactly what has happened. They're now claiming victory and hoping there isn't enough resistance to stand in their way. The real question now is whether or not the combined voices of the CHP, HDP, MHP rebels and others who opposed have the fortitude to stand in their way.

'No' won in all of the major cities, including Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir and many more. It's completely illogical that they pulled off a victory when this is the case. The result is farcical and the battle is far from over.
 
Fener1907 said:
To sum up, this is exactly what has happened. They're now claiming victory and hoping there isn't enough resistance to stand in their way. The real question now is whether or not the combined voices of the CHP, HDP, MHP rebels and others who opposed have the fortitude to stand in their way.

'No' won in all of the major cities, including Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir and many more. It's completely illogical that they pulled off a victory when this is the case. The result is farcical and the battle is far from over.
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But he has massive rural support?
 
Jippy said:
It baffles my Turkish friend that a lot of ex-pats vote yes. She voted no last Sunday.
The yes ex-pats remind me of the Brit ones on the Costa del Sol voting for Brexit.
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I am not sure but most of the yes votes coming from Europe are not the most educated or rational people. Most of them went there many years ago and has working class routes. If you offer them a chance to come back Turkey, they will not accept because of the economical benefits of Europe. But they somehow constantly manage to screw us with a dream of revival of Ottoman Empire which is ridiculous.

As time passes by, I start to feel more like crying. You can probably imagine how devastated we are, but to actually live it, is incredibly bad.
 
Jippy said:
It baffles my Turkish friend that a lot of ex-pats vote yes. She voted no last Sunday.
The yes ex-pats remind me of the Brit ones on the Costa del Sol voting for Brexit.
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In my opinion, this has to be the end for dual citizenship in Germany. It's absolutely unbelievable how anyone can be a German Citizen, respecting our constitution, and then go on and vote for something like this. I'm sorry, but this vote shows you are not German and you don't respect our values, history and constitution. We should force people to decide, this way we will see what's what.
 
fcbforever said:
In my opinion, this has to be the end for dual citizenship in Germany. It's absolutely unbelievable how anyone can be a German Citizen, respecting our constitution, and then go on and vote for something like this. I'm sorry, but this vote shows you are not German and you don't respect our values, history and constitution. We should force people to decide, this way we will see what's what.
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I dont think it will be the end of dual citizenship for quite a while under Merkel or Schulz, the whole Turkey stuff Germany was very passive and defensive.

Every citizen of the EU should decide for one citizenship and be done with it.
 
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