Trump/Russia/SDNY investigation
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
No, I think the point is that the FISA warrant was already in place regardless of the Steele report. Also the Steele reports was initially funded by the Republicans BEFORE Hillary and co got involved. It's also been verified by numerous sources that up to 80% of the Steele dossier is accurate however the Republicans want to discredit the entire thing based on its innacuracies and the fact Hillary and the Dems paid were involved.
The memo has no mention of the GOP initially funding the dossier and it is also misleading that it has numerous other important ommissions too.
It's clear that Nunes and Trump are just trying to discredit the Russia enquiry so they can put an end to it all. What they fail to realise though is that 4 people have already been charged and been flipped. Nunes is obviously up to his neck in it as is Trump and they are just trying to do whatever they can to get off the hook or get the investigation stopped. Unfortunately that means trying to discredit and attacking the FBI and Department of Justice. They have no morals whatsoever.
That part of the memo was written specifically muddy. It implies that dossier was the main part of the FISA application. I'm sure if the transcript is released it'll be McCabe saying that the dossier was among the sources used to seek the application. There's a difference there if you're looking at it rationally.For the first part, there is something in black and white in the memo:
This isn't an interpretation, this seems in black and white to me. No dossier = no FISA. Deliberately hiding crucial information about the the source of the dossier is crucial and is a deal breaker here, especially when you read the details about the source.
In fact, the democrats are now attacking the memo for the exact same two reasons the memo is discrediting the FISA warrant. First, the democrats say the memo is not credible because it's based on info provided by a biased person, well so was the case with the FISA warrant. And second, the democrats say the memo is not credible and void because it doesn't include the full picture and selectively present the info, well, so was the case with the FISA warrant.
So they didn't trust the Dossier to get the warrant or that it would too easily be discredited as a basis for gaining the warrant later?
Joe Walsh isn't who I'd describe as balanced but he has made sensible statements in the last few months.
No lose for the Dems now. They no longer need that Memo to be released as the damage is done for Nunes and Trump as their memo has had no impact.
Get it onto Trumps desk and let him decline the release of it and just enjoy the criticism that hypocrisy draws. It’ll only be compounded now because of the reaction this memo has already drawn.
The dossier alone wouldn't have been the only thing used to get the warrant. They probably used information that lead to them getting the original warrant in 2013 also along with other information.
Page was already a known actor he actually admitted that Russia tried to recruit him in 2013 the problem was he had no influence back then. Move forward to 2016 and Trump had named him as a foreign adviser. His previous admission that Russian agents had tried to recruit him would have been enough for a FISA warrant without anything else. Once they had knowledge that Russia was trying to contact Trump Page with his previous Russian involvement was always going to be the in.
The reason that the Steele Document was important was that it Cooperated the Papadopoulos information that Russia was trying to contact Trump. Page was the 'in' because he had previous which made him an easy case with any judge for a warrant.
I don’t know much about him, sounds like a typical libitarian from that article.
The memo reminds me of poorly written fanfiction.
That is absolutely wonderful
I just burst out laughing at that to my girlfriends bemusement. Haven’t actually laughed like that at something on the internet for a long time!You have to wonder how many alt-righters are in the army, they just disobey orders.
I think that it might have been the reason that they applied for the warrant as it corroborated the Papadopoulos information. Page was his own evidence for a warrant. Did they really need any other information to get a warrant on him.
I expect more of the Generals voted Sanders right?
Good stuff.
You have to laugh at these guys though. Especially Junior. My word, he's a moron.
I... Erm... that's not what Trump said a few hours ago. Wow. They just contradict each other constantly. Hard to keep up.
As I said the start of the investigation is different from the applying for a FISA warrant. As for the use of a pre-Steele FISA, even if something else was used, does it mean that the FISA warrant would have been granted on the basis of this regardless of the dossier? As I said, you can't just add info to this, you have to say McCabe lied about no dossier no FISA (or Nunez lied about it) for this point to lose validity.
You certainly shouldn't hide relevant and crucial info from the judges, or give them incomplete info (that could affect the decision) deliberately.
Bias is actually one of the most important factors in credibility, especially in legal cases. Even if you've been a well-respected judge for 50 years, you won't be given a case in which you have any conflict of interest. As for corroboration, that's another problem actually which the memo mentions; as they tried to give a false impression of corroboration of multiple sources, when in fact they knew they actually came from the same source (they considered media reports, Yahoo news, as another source confirming the dossier, when in reality the source of the Yahoo news was also Steele). So there is a problem here too. As for other info, like I said, it all revolves around McCabe's testimony here.
I do think indeed that the transcript for this testimony will have to be released to clear this issue up. To be honest, I don't think it would matter if the democrats add ten more evidences they presented, if this is indeed how it sounds here, the point stands imo.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-gop-memo-papadopoulos-20180202-story.html
Good read on why the sentence about Papadopoulos matters. I was wrong earlier, he wasn't cooperating in July 2016; rather, that was when the FBI received the intelligence from Australia that he was bragging about the Trump campaign being aware of the Russians having the Clinton emails. So that was the information that kicked off the FBI's investigation, it seems. I'd imagine the findings from the investigation, as well as the dossier claims (which they almost certainly would tried to verify as much as possible), were the basis for the FISA warrant on Carter Page.
Good read on why the sentence about Papadopoulos matters. I was wrong earlier, he wasn't cooperating in July 2016; rather, that was when the FBI received the intelligence from Australia that he was bragging about the Trump campaign being aware of the Russians having the Clinton emails. So that was the information that kicked off the FBI's investigation, it seems. I'd imagine the findings from the investigation, as well as the dossier claims (which they almost certainly would tried to verify as much as possible), were the basis for the FISA warrant on Carter Page.
Asha is on fire today
Well we don't actually know what they knew, and according to what I've read the dossier itself wasn't even crucial to get the extentions as Page was knee deep already. So if the author of the dossier was shopping for a MAGA hat or not would most likely be completely irrelevant in this case. He's also implying (in the not very plausible case the dossier was crucial for the FISA application) that the court would've not approved it had they known that Steele didn't like Trump, which again we don't know if it's true or not.
Ding ding! Round two!
Feck me, what a day.
Ding ding! Round two!
Feck me, what a day.
I like Schiff.
Ding ding! Round two!
Feck me, what a day.
I’ve got so much time for Schiff, above everything else, he just comes across as a normal bloke, fraustrated and bewildered by what he is witnessing, just like all of us.
Last edited:
Ding ding! Round two!
Feck me, what a day.
After reading the article, they actually picked the wrong title. This is the details regarding the title:
Hmmm, not so sure what they exactly told the court then. A better title should be about this if true:
However, they don't seem to say that the counter memo contained this info, but rather general reporting at the end of the article. If they have evidence of this (that the dossier was not a crucial evidence, regardless of the presence of other evidences) in the counter memo then McCabe or Nunez are lying (according at least to how the memo sounded).
The thing is, the Steele dossier forming some of the basis for investigations and FISA’s has only become an issue because the Trump Admin and Fox News have labelled it the “dodgy dossier” and established it as fact that it was a “crooked Hillary fabricated document”.
The reality is that A. It was originally funded by a conservative think tank, B. Steele is a trusted source of the FBI, C. Large parts of it were independantly corroborated by other FBI sources and D. Fusion GPS have given a very good account of the story behind it in their testimony to Congress and it all checked out.
So if the FBI took it to the FISA courts as new evidence, they were well within their rights to do so. It’s was a credible document back then and is still a credible document in the intelligence community despite it being the subject of a partisan assaination.
The reality is that A. It was originally funded by a conservative think tank, B. Steele is a trusted source of the FBI, C. Large parts of it were independantly corroborated by other FBI sources and D. Fusion GPS have given a very good account of the story behind it in their testimony to Congress and it all checked out.
So if the FBI took it to the FISA courts as new evidence, they were well within their rights to do so. It’s was a credible document back then and is still a credible document in the intelligence community despite it being the subject of a partisan assaination.
This puts most of the arguments to bed. If a court order was originally approved by a judge then extensions can be approved based on the substance of the original order.
I think you might have posted this tweet a few times tonight pal, everything alright?!
Feck it, my phone is playing up. I didn't realise as I'm posting in between working and not checking. Really annoyed as I've found some damn decent tweets and stories too that I will never remember now. Bollocks.
All good mate, there’s a plethora of good tweets around tonight tonight. Here’s to the little victories. 
I think you caught the virus too.
If at first you don't succeed, lie lie again
Trump's release of Nunes memo is Nixonian – but today's GOP won't resist:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/02/trump-nunes-memo-republicans-nixon
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/02/trump-nunes-memo-republicans-nixon
Do we know if the original FISA application was approved with or without the dossier as evidence?