Basically they are doing everything they can to stop him from speaking to them because they know he'd completely and utterly feck himself up.
Trump/Russia/SDNY investigation
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Basically they are doing everything they can to stop him from speaking to them because they know he'd completely and utterly feck himself up.
I think he will talk to him eventually since not doing so will leak and make him look scared and that he’s hiding something.
I think he's more likely to brush that off like the Tax returns and deflect, deflect, deflect. Having Trump sit down and be interviewed by Mueller and his team of specialists who have already been shown to have far more evidence than they are letting on would be an absolutely disaster. Suicide.
They would have him twisted into a web of lies within the first hour.
Gotta goad him carefully then so that he stops listening to his advisors and does it anyway. Can't wait to see how they do it.
It would be the single greatest event in American politics. He wouldn't be able to resist telling a lie every 30 seconds, and each one would be a federal crime. 
It would be the single greatest event in American politics. He wouldn't be able to resist telling a lie every 30 seconds, and each one would be a federal crime.
Amazing how not having an audience to perform for makes him semi-normal.
Or the previous time he was deposed and had to face his lies. 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/trump-lies/?utm_term=.e718f4fa9988
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/trump-lies/?utm_term=.e718f4fa9988
I confess I haven't been following this thread. I think it's a load of bullshit, tbh. Just wondering though, why isn't there similar concern about Israeli meddling in US (and UK) politics?
How can you think its a load of bullshit if you haven't actually been following it?
Re Israel btw, there should be but its been such an open thing for so long (and remember the US give Israel billions in aid each year) that they may as well just be the 51st state.
Lobbying's a problem at all levels of US politics but this particular investigation regards election interference. Not sure why there's the need to bring Israel into it.
Because he prefers inventing an outcome without actually looking at the facts.
Whatabouatism. Standard Kremlin tactic.
OK. Give me a quick summary. Just how exactly is Russia supposed to have interfered. How many of your American personal associates/friends/colleagues/family were influenced to vote the way they did because of something some Russian did? Never mind media bullshit. I want to know about decisions you or people you actually know or know about? What was it they saw on facebook or twitter or whatever that made them change their mind and vote Trump over Clinton or Sanders?
Honestly, any fair analysis of US politics would unhesitatingly adjudge Israel's influence on the decisions made in Washington to be far, far greater than that exercised by other foreign power, Russia included. I know it's commonly accepted to be the case and so no one raises it as an issue anymore. I just think that's really fecked up.
Forgive me Raoul, but I've about had enough of this kind of shit from you. Ban me if you want. I'm putting an Admin on block.
Edit: Well, I would if I could figure out how to do it.
Nothing unfactual about what I said.
The whole thing isn't particularly difficult to understand. Donald Trump was elected President of the US; the investigation relates to whether Trump was actively colluding with them, or as to whether his campaign members/anyone else in the campaign cycle was actively colluding with them.
The actual impact it had is immaterial - quite whether it actually influenced the end result is up for debate and would probably require more analysis. What's more important is whether figures involved with Trump's campaign (or Trump himself) colluded with Russia.
I'm no fan of the Israeli state but this is pretty basic whataboutism you're employing here.
No. You're constantly attacking me - not what I post.
I attack the logic of your posts. Perfectly fair play.
God I wish... Can you tell me how I can put you on Block?
Click on my name and press ignore.
Whataboutism is the new inception. Invoking whataboutism to deflect from a statement that highlights a contradiction.
It gets overused but I think it's fair enough to point it out when someone starts bringing up Israel in a thread that's primarily focused on goings on between Russia and the US.
@DenisIrwin I'm not being funny mate but you really don't do yourself any favours: "I confess I haven't been following this thread. I think it's a load of bullshit, tbh".
Your pleading absolute ignorance before you declare your brash opinion and then have the temerity to get upset when someone questions your motives for taking the thread off topic and discussing Israel instead?
Your pleading absolute ignorance before you declare your brash opinion and then have the temerity to get upset when someone questions your motives for taking the thread off topic and discussing Israel instead?
Why do you think companies spend billions of dollars a year on advertising? Do you really think that micro-targeting voters with messages tailored to appeal to their specific grievances or concerns isn't something that could influence a swing voter? Most of the people who WERE effected won't have the first clue they were effected, this is the kind of subliminal shit that works over months and gradually persuades the viewer that their own instincts are the cause not the propaganda.
Russian posts were seen hundreds of millions of times on social media. It has a very real and substantial effect.
Basically people hate everything Donald Trump represents and would do just about anything to depose him.
They’ve pinned all their hopes on Russian collusion as being a way to get rid of him - and for sure it’s 100% certain the Russians did get involved with bot farming / social media accounts making a serious campaign for him, so if he’s found guilty he will be impeached.
This is all massive deflection from the reality however - Hillary Clinton bribed and cheated her way into opposition after shenanigans by the DNC, and was quite frankly unelectable.
The one positive outcome from all of this is that it has highlighted the dangerous way in which social media has become an insidious, dopamine driven brainwashing tool. If controlling social media means you truly influence the vote, then the domination of social media is a secret war that Russia won last year and that’s what they are afraid of.
I don’t believe that it was as influential on the vote in America as some seem to but whatevs.
In most cases those who whatabout are engaging in a Tu Quoque fallacy - an appeal to hypocrisy to obfuscate from truthfully dealing with the central topic of debate. Calling it out is therefore perfectly fair play since the central topic takes precedence.
Russian agents are believed by American intelligence agencies to have illegally hacked the emails of the DNC and Hillary Clinton to release them at an appropriate moment in order to swing the election in favour of a Russian-friendly candidate. This may have happened with the knowledge and assistance of said candidate.
What illegal acts is Israel, or the Israel lobby, supposed to have conducted in order to warrant a similar investigation?
Putin is that you?
For sure. It’s secretly terrifying how powerful social media tools have become in determining various aspects of life in general. Make no mistake - large companies have absolutely cottoned on to this power and are starting to put serious money into controlling various Internet forums and social media sites.
Someone tell @DenisIrwin to read the IC assessment
(in before the IC got it wrong on Iraqi nukes so why should I believe them excuse)
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf
In summary:
(in before the IC got it wrong on Iraqi nukes so why should I believe them excuse)
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf
In summary:
- Russian efforts to influence the 2016 US presidential election represent the most recent expression of Moscow’s longstanding desire to undermine the US-led liberal democratic order, but these activities demonstrated a significant escalation in directness, level of activity, and scope of effort compared to previous operations.
- We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments.
- We also assess Putin and the Russian Government aspired to help President-elect Trump’s election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him. All three agencies agree with this judgment. CIA and FBI have high confidence in this judgment; NSA has moderate confidence.
I think using Israel to deflect from the Russia investigation is a logical fallacy.
Asking if there should be more scrutiny on the immense hand Israel have in US politics is not. (Of course, not to the level of interfering in an election as alleged with Russia)
I realize the poster you were interacting with may have engaged as the first, but the "whataboutism" term gets thrown about too easy.
It may be an increasing annoying hipster internet term, but the principle behind its use is absolutely correct.
So if you haven't been following the investigation then how do you know it's bullshit? If you're actually willing to read up on this then I suggest you read something like this.
I am not willing and I am insulted that you think reading and thinking about topics somehow makes your opinion better than mine!
One of the ironies of the probe so far, which I've seen @MTF bring up here, is that the contact between the transition team and Russians was regarding the UN vote re Israel, where Obama had at last allowed it to go forward.
I prefer "whubbery" (c)
The point I'm trying to make here is that I honestly believe the whole "Russian involvement" thing is itself a patently obvious deflection. Does anyone really and honestly believe that Russia swung the election? Well I don't buy it. That's why I think it's all bullshit. If anyone is genuinely concerned about foreign powers having an unhealthy influence on US politics they should focus elsewhere. Not to deflect - simply because the elephant in the room is far more cause for concern than whether or not some bear somewhere shat in the woods.