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Transgender rights discussion
- Thread starter crappycraperson
- Start date
It's not 'daft' to say that, why do you care that it is phrased like that? What impact does it have on your life?
It is daft though isn't it. Five syllables to two. Why?
Yeah who cares about people's feelings, I want to be able to type less words.
because they want to be inclusive. hth.
Has nothing to do with feelings. It's a simple facticity. Women menstruate, men don't. If you had to try and define a key difference between the sexes it would be that and all the other minutia surrounding the birth giving ritual.
The LGBT community using it makes more sense but outside of that it's a stretch. You'd have to make the argument that the term is discriminatory when that's simply not true.
Maybe she just needs to have an open and constructive conversation with the trans community to understand these issues? My issue with Twitter is people seem to leap to attack very easily.
Loads of folks who desperately want her to to just keep quiet have told her to speak to queer folks. Her response to that is that her butch lesbian friend loves her stance. In any case, I think it is clear that she is adamant in her line of thinking being correct and hence is not troubled by any social media backlash. Interestingly enough she might even be 'cancel' proof since I can't see the Potter series every losing popularity despite any controversy she gets into.
I've a great admiration for anyone with genuine gender dysphoria who is genuinely Trans. However the Trans Activist movement has been taken over by a bunch of Auto gynephile narcissists who have a disturbing fascination with gaining access to women only spaces like female prisons and loos.
I've no problem with Transitioned women accessing such spaces. But some bloke just "self identifying" as a woman in order to gain access is just a perverts charter.
Just look up jess Bradley for instance or jessica yaniv for further info.
I've no problem with Transitioned women accessing such spaces. But some bloke just "self identifying" as a woman in order to gain access is just a perverts charter.
Just look up jess Bradley for instance or jessica yaniv for further info.
Just when I think I'm caught up with the current lingo something new pops up that has me running back to Google.
Yes, absolutely. If you've ever worked in an area that has to take precautions against the actions of sexual predators then some of what these activists try and claim access too is just ridiculous.
Some are also funded by american "pray the gay away" types whose solution to the "problem" with being gay is to change sex.
TLDR Version- perverted sexual fascination with wearing women's clothing / spying on women, rather than a genuine desire to become a woman or feeling uncomfortable as a man.
And we've moved on to transphobia. Cool.
Don't get me wrong, not saying that it is per se worse than homophobia and racism, but i believe it has become worse in the sense of it beeing tolerated und much more common represented in today's world.
And most if not all the the Anti Trans groups campaigning in the UK to regress rights and prevent Trans Youth treatment and any form of education on trans issues are themselves funded by right wing religious groups who are campaigning for conversion therapy to remain legal.
I have no idea what’s going on
I'm through trying to explain to your type. Perhaps shaming you with your own words might get you to adopt an ounce of decency.
And don't go blaming anyone else, you dredged all this up by yourself, it was not a reply or engaging with another poster - other than agreeing with that guy.
What useless specimen. Is this the subject she is going to use her notoriety to engage? See, this kind of disingenuous behaviour is very common these days. In a world of wars, famine, diseases, injustice, a blood bath, some public figures pick a parallel topic to create a cruzade. Its like those conmen Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Eric Weinstein, posing as "La Resistance" against evil imature college kids that protest against neo nazi speechs. "Oh my god, we are so brave fighting against social science students. I can accept people dying with no health care, i can accept when we destroy entire countries, or when we help the saudis to starve Yemen, but i just cant tolerate a trans man playing feminine volleyball". Collossal hypocrites.
I don't get the point you are making. Are you happy to endorse the behaviour of those people?
I am saying they are not genuinely trans, just opportunistic sexual predators jumping on a bandwagon and hoping to exploit weak safeguarding in areas such as education, prisons etc.
I don't use any negative language about genuine transexuals and have worked alongside people transitioning in a variety of different workplaces.
The only people I hear using negative phrases are generally the Trans Activists who like to categorize people as "TERF" and "cis"
Interesting that I am apparently a "type" rather than presenting a point of view. Good luck with your own journey.
You brought up sexual predation and criminality in a thread about J.K Rowling's transrights twitter meltdown. And now you are asking me if I endorse the behaviour of criminals and sex offenders in the same thread.
Yes you made it explicitly clear what you thought about sexual predators and criminals within the trans community as well as your exclusionary views, in a thread about Harry Potter's mum.
You are a "type" that presents a bigoted point of view, conflating sexual abnormality, predatory behaviour, criminality and perversion with trans rights issues.
I wish I could take it in good faith but the deception and bigotry in your posts suggests insincerity.
P.S. I know I said I wasn't going to engage with bigoted opinions and then I went and did all that. Yes, I lost dang it.
Whats wrong with Weinstein? One of my friend watches his Podcast a lot. Is he a part of the Peterson crowd as well?
I haven't read the rest if the thread but this post jumped out to me because Pogue is usually very switched on and I thought it was worth informing him and other members of the Caf that this wasn't some explosion of idiocy in response to twitter pile ons, it was Rowling coming out as the public face of Transphobia in the UK.
I don't like centering myself during discussions but it's worth noting I've been fighting for trans rights and other causes for a long time now both on and offline and this isn't something new.
People within the movement have been screaming about this weird cabal of white UK media-facing feminists and their mates slowly pushing trans panic into the mainstream. It's been creeping onto the front pages of certain publications for a long time now.
A lot of this anti-trans agenda has been pushed by special interest groups from outside of the UK as a way of fracturing the left and it's working wonders to be honest. So this wasn't Rowling getting sick of pile ons and cracking, she just came out of the closet after accidentally tweeting a message from a TERF twitter group chat onto her main feed last week:
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/05/29/jk-rowling-terf-tweet-transgender-apology
Naturally that forced trans activists to mobilise and that's when the noise about her being TERFy as feck reached a crescendo and forced her to go all in on this dangerous bollocks.
He's part of the anti-trans intellectual dark web but I listen to him the same way I listen to Joe Rogan, like if the subject or guest interests me enough, I'm willing to put a pause on my feelings about them and pirate the episode.
Someone who went to the university of Maryland
That's what first came to mind!
Saw it trending on twitter. This thread is out of my league.
I kind of feel the same.
Are TERFs feminists that perceive male to female trans people as men getting all up in women's business again, like some sort of threat to femininity ?
I don’t understand much about this topic and I don‘t understand why people generally feel offended by other people’s opinions. Rowling doesn‘t strike me as somebody who wouldn‘t listen or discuss reasoning, so it seems fair to debate the positions.
In these kinds of quarrels I ask myself how much of it is caused by self-centred individuals speaking — or feeling offended — for whole communities of menstruating and none-menstruating people in similar situations. I’m sure there is a very individual story behind everybody, just as much as Rowling’s opinion will be perceived entirely differently by individuals of the same community. It definitely would be too easy to say it’s Rowling vs the entire — apologies for probably not getting it right — trans-community.
Just to be clear — I don‘t think egocentricity is generally negative. I think we all are and should be to a certain degree. But I think being part of a community that offers excellent support in difficult situations may have the downside of drowning out personalities and individual opinions in favour of a party-line.
In these kinds of quarrels I ask myself how much of it is caused by self-centred individuals speaking — or feeling offended — for whole communities of menstruating and none-menstruating people in similar situations. I’m sure there is a very individual story behind everybody, just as much as Rowling’s opinion will be perceived entirely differently by individuals of the same community. It definitely would be too easy to say it’s Rowling vs the entire — apologies for probably not getting it right — trans-community.
Just to be clear — I don‘t think egocentricity is generally negative. I think we all are and should be to a certain degree. But I think being part of a community that offers excellent support in difficult situations may have the downside of drowning out personalities and individual opinions in favour of a party-line.
I kind of feel the same.
Are TERFs feminists that perceive male to female trans people as men getting all up in women's business again, like some sort of threat to femininity ?
I feel the same..
TERF is a pejorative term for a group of feminists who think that the progression of trans rights will infringe on the rights of biological females so a distinction between biological and trans females should be maintained.
I'm being generous and accepting that overall understanding of the logic on face value.
I think TERF’s main beef with trans rights is that they believe gender is a societal construct. A construct that suppresses women and benefits the patriarchy. Which is something that the whole concept of gender dysphoria goes against. TERFs want to get rid of gender roles altogether. Biological sex is all that matters.
The constant bickering about toilets and safe spaces is a bit of a side show to this fundamental philosophical disagreement.
They also don’t seem to like the word TERF. I’m not sure how they would prefer to be labelled.
This is one of those debates that, as a person who doesnt menstruate, I'm not touching with a ten foot pole.
I don't mean pole like that, please don't be mad.
Harry Potter is shite.
I don't mean pole like that, please don't be mad.
Harry Potter is shite.
Why would anyone care what gender somebody identifies with? I never understood why people wanna mind their business with other people's personal preferences.
I think half the people in this thread being scared to have any opinion at all illustrates pretty well why I can't be arsed with all this "cancel culture" shit and the politics of being offended in general.
Summed it up perfectly. They have a militant lesbian wing too largely because of the reasons you listed here but that is a another discussion entirely.
Ultimately it comes down to trans people being some of the most violently oppressed people in the world, largely due to European colonisers and the weird pseduo-Christian morality they spunked all over planet earth. If you go back far enough, trans people used to be revered, especially in and around India. Now? Not so much.
I think they want to be women, but they don't like any other labels to be honest. The term "cis" has been used to describe someone born into and happy with the gender they are. They hate being referred to as cis women whenever used to describe them in debates to differenciate them from trans women. They are happy to misgender trans women or refer to them as trans women in these debates, but bring in the term cis and they go wild.
North America also, those of two spirits were often revered within the tribes. Again the Europeans came across and that part of the culture has been lost.
I'll also add what they are failing to see is that what is happening with the next generation that's coming through. This fight is being fought by a older age group in terms of the those against trans rights, it's galvanizing trans youth around the world to fight for rights, the LGB youth are fully backing the trans fight and so whilst they may win this fight in the short term, the up coming generation will win the war. As a youth worker working with LGBTQ+ youth groups and also trans youth groups I'm seeing it with the young people I work with and my colleagues around the country and world are saying the same sort of thing.
Not sure it is about cancel culture mate, they probably just recognise that arguing about other people's genitalia is a bit creepy and weird but go off. Honestly I just feel sorry for all the trans kids out there who were big HP fans. Personally I was more of an Animorphs guy but each to their own.