Precisely. And Anto does it at his own risk. If he goes too far, it's him who will have an unbalanced team. This is the whole point of a free market. Those who shoot to far miss out. That's life and risk.
Transfer Muppet Fantasy
- Thread starter Polaroid
- Start date
Precisely. And Anto does it at his own risk. If he goes too far, it's him who will have an unbalanced team. This is the whole point of a free market. Those who shoot to far miss out. That's life and risk.
Why not? We want a draft based on a free market. That is a free market. People who budget and save cash vs those who take risks and could fall for it. That's business. That's life. That's how it works.
It is though..thats how an auction works. If he is wrong, he will be fined/lose. If he is right, then their will be no consequences. With no mods in this game, the price depends on the players. Just like a free market.
Meh it's no fun if he ends up screwed with fines though. You'd just inflate the market for everyone else and give someone a walkover in round one. He never wanted to play this draft in the first place so I think he's fine taking unreasonable risks and just playing spoiler.
I'm sure we will get a good working example of a free market with play money.
And we just sit here waiting for him to fail, players coming back, bidding starting again, fines given.
And it will repeat again, he would bid 100m for 5 players when he has a total of 50m in the bank. It's plain stupid to follow that, it won't save any time, and it takes out any sort of planning.
And on what basis does he assume that ALL the players he bid for would have been raised to their 'righteous' values? How is he so sure that not even one of them would have gone for a bargain?
And how is he so sure that his risk would pay off? Cause if it didn't, we'd be one manager down, and back to square one when Ronaldo, Figo, Ronaldinho, Giggs would be priced at 10m base price again. He's not taking this game forward, he's taken a gamble in which the only two results are (i) average loss to all managers aka his profit, or (ii) a clusterfeck and mega screw up for everyone.
And he doesn't seem to be bothered about option (ii)
That may not be the case though. It all depends if Antohan is just doing it for fun or if he is actually trying to build a team. If it's the latter, he's taking a risk which he would get caught out for should he get the fines. He hasn't den it to inflate the market, he is just bidding on what he things is fair value. If people don't agree he takes a fine. He might do the same thing again and get another fine. Then he will have a shit team while others won't because we planned differently.
Funny thing is I just run through it all to restore order for you all.
Total inflationary impact: 35M, across 10 players. 3.5M per player.
WOW! It's like the housing bubble.
Have fun guys. I was getting excited about this but you've all just reminded me why I well and truly can't be arsed with this any more.
It's not though. All he is doing is prolonging the draft I agree. But for example if he bid too high for Figo, and I wanted Figo, I could in turn save for the next time Figo would come up knowing he wouldn't have the funds to compete.
Where a player has been subsequently raised by a player other than the one who originally had it I've let it be.
Everything which hasn't had a third-party involved has been restored to original values and timestamps.
CLEANED UP
Player Count - 55
Forwards
C. Ronaldo - 80M - crappy - 08.00
Adriano - 10M - Pippa - 08.10
D. Drogba - 30M - Gandalf - 13.19
L. Figo - 67M - Pippa - 13:20
Messi - 100m - MJJ - 15.03
Ronaldinho - 60M- MJJ - 15.03
Ronaldo - 95M - Fergus - 16:25
Rivaldo - 50M - VivaJ - 17.10
Rooney - 40 M - Stobzilla - 18:00
Midfielders
R. Keane - 50M - Rpitroda - 10.29
P. Scholes - 50M - Rpitroda - 10.29
S. Gerrard - 30M-MJJ 1806
Kily Gonzalez - 10M - Cutch - 11.27
Joaquin - 10M - Cutch - 11.27
P. Guardiola - 25M - Cutch - 11.27
G. Mendieta - 20M - Cutch - 11.45
R. Pires - 30m-MJJ 1806
P. Nedved - 40m - Gandalf - 13:45
Iniesta-70m-paceme-15:07
Xavi - 57m-Annah- 15:11
Busquets - 54m-Annah-15:11
M. Ballack - 30M - MJJ 1806
Zidane - 65M - MJJ 1806
J.R Riquelme - 25M -MJJ 1806
C. Seedorf - 35M - VivaJ - 17.10
R.Giggs - 50M - MJJ 1806
L.Enrique - 35M - MJJ 1806
G. Gattuso - 25m - MJJ 1806
E. Cambiasso - 20m -MJJ 1806
D. Beckham - 40M - rpitroda -18:10
J. Verón - 25m - Stobzilla 1810
Defenders
A. Cole - 25M - Pippa - 07.50
G. Neville - 12M - Rpitroda - 8.38
Marcelo - 10M - VivaJ - 10.15
L. Piszczek - 10M - VivaJ - 10.35
J. Zanetti - 35M - Pippa - 11.04
G. Zambrotta - 10M - Cutch - 11.45
A. Nesta - 50M - Cutch - 12:08
R. Ayala - 15M - VivaJ - 12:35
R. Carvalho - 15m - Paceme - 12:38
J. Terry - 30m - paceme - 13.28
L.Thuram - 40M - Cutch - 13:40
Cafu - 40M - Fergus' son - 13:53
T. Silva - 37M - Edgar - 14:13
R. Carlos - 40 - Gandalf - 14.29
Lahm - 40m - kps - 15.18
Lucio - 15m - Gandalf - 15.21
R.Ferdinand - 35M - VivaJ - 17:40
N.Vidic - 20M - VivaJ - 17:40
Abidal- 20m - Stobzilla - 17:53
Goalkeepers
M. Neuer - 10M - Antohan - 08:00
E. Van der Sar - 15M - VivaJ - 09.40
P. Cech - 10M - kps88 - 11.00
G. Buffon - 15M -Cutch - 12.08
I. Casillas - 15m - Gandalf- 14:24
Everything which hasn't had a third-party involved has been restored to original values and timestamps.
CLEANED UP
Player Count - 55
Forwards
C. Ronaldo - 80M - crappy - 08.00
Adriano - 10M - Pippa - 08.10
D. Drogba - 30M - Gandalf - 13.19
L. Figo - 67M - Pippa - 13:20
Messi - 100m - MJJ - 15.03
Ronaldinho - 60M- MJJ - 15.03
Ronaldo - 95M - Fergus - 16:25
Rivaldo - 50M - VivaJ - 17.10
Rooney - 40 M - Stobzilla - 18:00
Midfielders
R. Keane - 50M - Rpitroda - 10.29
P. Scholes - 50M - Rpitroda - 10.29
S. Gerrard - 30M-MJJ 1806
Kily Gonzalez - 10M - Cutch - 11.27
Joaquin - 10M - Cutch - 11.27
P. Guardiola - 25M - Cutch - 11.27
G. Mendieta - 20M - Cutch - 11.45
R. Pires - 30m-MJJ 1806
P. Nedved - 40m - Gandalf - 13:45
Iniesta-70m-paceme-15:07
Xavi - 57m-Annah- 15:11
Busquets - 54m-Annah-15:11
M. Ballack - 30M - MJJ 1806
Zidane - 65M - MJJ 1806
J.R Riquelme - 25M -MJJ 1806
C. Seedorf - 35M - VivaJ - 17.10
R.Giggs - 50M - MJJ 1806
L.Enrique - 35M - MJJ 1806
G. Gattuso - 25m - MJJ 1806
E. Cambiasso - 20m -MJJ 1806
D. Beckham - 40M - rpitroda -18:10
J. Verón - 25m - Stobzilla 1810
Defenders
A. Cole - 25M - Pippa - 07.50
G. Neville - 12M - Rpitroda - 8.38
Marcelo - 10M - VivaJ - 10.15
L. Piszczek - 10M - VivaJ - 10.35
J. Zanetti - 35M - Pippa - 11.04
G. Zambrotta - 10M - Cutch - 11.45
A. Nesta - 50M - Cutch - 12:08
R. Ayala - 15M - VivaJ - 12:35
R. Carvalho - 15m - Paceme - 12:38
J. Terry - 30m - paceme - 13.28
L.Thuram - 40M - Cutch - 13:40
Cafu - 40M - Fergus' son - 13:53
T. Silva - 37M - Edgar - 14:13
R. Carlos - 40 - Gandalf - 14.29
Lahm - 40m - kps - 15.18
Lucio - 15m - Gandalf - 15.21
R.Ferdinand - 35M - VivaJ - 17:40
N.Vidic - 20M - VivaJ - 17:40
Abidal- 20m - Stobzilla - 17:53
Goalkeepers
M. Neuer - 10M - Antohan - 08:00
E. Van der Sar - 15M - VivaJ - 09.40
P. Cech - 10M - kps88 - 11.00
G. Buffon - 15M -Cutch - 12.08
I. Casillas - 15m - Gandalf- 14:24
For the record I agree with you. It's your squad you're risking by doing it. I don't see how it fecks others up.
He bid for Ronaldinho, Cristiano, Rivaldo and Figo. I don't see how that is trying to build a team? Even if it is, and that's his business not ours, what good is letting people go over the budget and then come back to take the fines?
1. It will waste enormous time instead of saving precious few hours that he intended to.
2. There won't be any guarantee which players might become available again. So do you sacrifice your current bids in the hope of bankrupt managers selling players?
3. Eventually his team will be much weaker than others, as he takes fine and has to settle for average players, meaning that someone will get a bye in the tournament.
I don't find a single logical reason to go ahead with this. Like Pol said, if someone genuinely makes a mistake and bids over his budget he has to the option of recovering some of that money instead of losing all he spent, but intentionally trying to do it will make the whole thing completely boring.
If I got Figo for 70M I would keep him. Do you seriously think I would get Nedved for 45M? And Dinho for 65M? The only bets that could come through are Figo and Ronnie, 155M between both, 145M for 9 players left, 15M average per remaining player.
Don't see the problem.
Who's to say he will? So you saved your money, in turn not making bids for ongoing players, and instead of Figo he lets go of someone else, which is his choice when he wants the money back.
Again it isn't about the prices. I completely agree with you that those prices would have been trumped eventually, but it's not for you or anyone to skew the market at his whim. Let everyone be a part of it.
The logical thing though would be that if someone wanted Figo but couldn't afford 70M they would have outbid me on Nedved, or Dinho, both cheaper. Same with crappy and Cristiano. The logical outcome was that I would end up with two at most.
Except in the world of the sisterhood of the twisted knickers.
I see where he's coming from.
Fergus' son bid 80m for Ronaldinho last time, there's no chance antohan would win him with a 65m bid.
Nedved...no chance.
Figo...no chance. I would bid for him.
Cristiano? Maybe.
Rivaldo? Not sure.
He's well within his means IMO if you look at who would be bidding for who.
Fergus' son bid 80m for Ronaldinho last time, there's no chance antohan would win him with a 65m bid.
Nedved...no chance.
Figo...no chance. I would bid for him.
Cristiano? Maybe.
Rivaldo? Not sure.
He's well within his means IMO if you look at who would be bidding for who.
Aldo I see where you're coming from but look at it like this:
He's bid for all 4 on the basis that he thinks they are undervalued. Has he done it to inflate prices on purpose? Has he done it because he wants all of them? I don't think so. He's done it because he wants maybe two of them and he's hedged his bets on the expectation that someone will bid higher if they want him.
The value of a player is how much someone is willing to pay. He has bid because he thinks others will value them higher. If he is wrong he suffers. But isn't that how a free market works?
I agree it prolongs the draft and I agree if he didn't do it it doesn't impact how good the draft will be but you guys have made it sound like he murdered someone. That's not right IMO.
As I said it boils down to his justification. Is it to be a prick, or is it because he doesn't want others getting players on the cheap and so he thought the risk of fines is worth people getting bargains? If it's the latter, is that really that wrong?
Anyway it's Polaroids draft and I respect the rules he and Annah want. I'm just giving my opinion mate. Not trying to be an asshole or anything.
As said, i gathered there was some silly principle thing involved and I was happy to comply with it going forward.
Really don't want to ruin the draft for Pol/Theon though.
I don't care if you end up getting all four, it's your team. You can bid as you want, but if the money you have has no implication on what you can buy, it makes it a farce.
I don't mind playing a farce, but it will be a farce.
It's actually much lesser than 35m. But taking into account the min. 2m rule, and the renewed interest in each player, it might go up to 6-7m per player. But that's not the point.
The point is - bids looked settled, people looked like they were going to see the round through, and you came in and started making them spend their money early, whereas they might have waited for a better set of names to come along once these blokes had moved along. That wasn't correct.
.
Then the rule should be that he has to let ALL of his players go like a real bankruptcy and start fresh with a new budget inclusive of fines.
I don't think you were trying to ruin it but you and me know well we've had bigger complication over much smaller issues. This is already a new format which is being experimented, so it would have been good to abide the simpler way and not create more complications for the organizer. And obviously, the precedent. You did it for a valid reason, but then you can't stop someone doing it just to troll or spoil the whole thing right? That's why all rules in other drafts have been made, it's important in the long run.
I think Antohan already showed he has a genuine interest in the draft and his team. That should be enough to warrant him his team if he wants too.
He's stated he won't go as rampant next time as well so what is the point of continuing the discussion.
He's stated he won't go as rampant next time as well so what is the point of continuing the discussion.
I agree it's unsettling but isn't that mine and your call, then, to say the players are too much and I have other names on my hitlist i would rather wait for? No one is forcing us to spend our cash right now n
There's absolutely no chance I would have let any of those players go at those prices. I would have done the same bids over the space of several hours before any of them hit 24hs. What fecking difference would that really make other than extend things?
And no, not because I wanted t inflate prices, because at those prices I was happy taking any of them myself.
I think at some point though you have to trust the managers they aren't going to troll the draft.
There is no such rule and that doesn't make sense.
Say someone made a genuine mistake and went 5m over the budget in his last pick, should he be forced to lose all his players because of that?
You can see how all this only prolongs the thing and complicates it more, rather than everyone following the logical method and not exceeding the budget on purpose. That is what was happening so far, no? And it was going along perfectly.
ANYHOW. LET THE BIDDING BEGIN.
Unleash the Kraken and all that.
Unleash the Kraken and all that.
I think now would be a good time for me to share that Sniper tried to pick Maradona in the sheep draft.
Just a quick comparison.
Player - 1st thread - antohan's bid
Cristiano - 101m - 85m
Figo - 67m - 70m
Ronaldinho - 85m - 65m
Rivaldo - / - 50m (fair)
Nedved - 65m - 45m
Giggs - 60m - 40m
Enrique - 45m - 28m
Verón - / - 15m (fair)
Seedorf - / - 30m (fair)
Guardiola - / - 28m (fair)
Neuer - / - 13m (fair)
I don't see anything wrong. Realistically speaking, how many of those players do you think antohan would've gotten at those bids? I could see him being outbidded for every player, looking at their prices. Except for Verón possibly, and that's because I had him at 10m for like 8 hours or something.
Player - 1st thread - antohan's bid
Cristiano - 101m - 85m
Figo - 67m - 70m
Ronaldinho - 85m - 65m
Rivaldo - / - 50m (fair)
Nedved - 65m - 45m
Giggs - 60m - 40m
Enrique - 45m - 28m
Verón - / - 15m (fair)
Seedorf - / - 30m (fair)
Guardiola - / - 28m (fair)
Neuer - / - 13m (fair)
I don't see anything wrong. Realistically speaking, how many of those players do you think antohan would've gotten at those bids? I could see him being outbidded for every player, looking at their prices. Except for Verón possibly, and that's because I had him at 10m for like 8 hours or something.
It's not the money, bro, it's the principle.
1. Everyone's interest is renewed in specific players.
2. It reduces the risk of you going bankrupt.
3. It increases the chance of your getting a player. Example- you spend one turn only raising Nedved's price by 5m, I'll think of whether I should follow up. But when you do the same for 10 players in a turn, I know you're a gambler and raise my bid immediately.
4. You just raised the accepted average values of the players. Before your mega bid came along, I thought 60m was fine for Ronaldinho. But since you've raised it casually to 65m, I've started thinking, he's probably worth 80m. Which is NOT correct when your pocket is 300m.
about Maradona, class!Player Count - 55
Forwards
C. Ronaldo - 80M - crappy - 08.00
Adriano - 10M - Pippa - 08.10
D. Drogba - 30M - Gandalf - 13.19
L. Figo - 67M - Pippa - 13:20
Messi - 100m - MJJ - 15.03
Ronaldo - 95M - Fergus - 16:25
Rivaldo - 50M - VivaJ - 17.10
Rooney - 40 M - Stobzilla - 18:00
Ronaldinho - 65M- VivaJ - 1915
Midfielders
R. Keane - 50M - Rpitroda - 10.29
P. Scholes - 50M - Rpitroda - 10.29
S. Gerrard - 30M-MJJ 1806
Kily Gonzalez - 10M - Cutch - 11.27
Joaquin - 10M - Cutch - 11.27
P. Guardiola - 25M - Cutch - 11.27
G. Mendieta - 20M - Cutch - 11.45
R. Pires - 30m-MJJ 1806
P. Nedved - 40m - Gandalf - 13:45
Iniesta-70m-paceme-15:07
Xavi - 57m-Annah- 15:11
Busquets - 54m-Annah-15:11
M. Ballack - 30M - MJJ 1806
Zidane - 65M - MJJ 1806
J.R Riquelme - 25M -MJJ 1806
C. Seedorf - 35M - VivaJ - 17.10
R.Giggs - 50M - MJJ 1806
G. Gattuso - 25m - MJJ 1806
E. Cambiasso - 20m -MJJ 1806
D. Beckham - 40M - rpitroda -18:10
J. Verón - 25m - Stobzilla 1810
L.Enrique - 38M - VivaJ 1915
Defenders
A. Cole - 25M - Pippa - 07.50
G. Neville - 12M - Rpitroda - 8.38
Marcelo - 10M - VivaJ - 10.15
L. Piszczek - 10M - VivaJ - 10.35
J. Zanetti - 35M - Pippa - 11.04
G. Zambrotta - 10M - Cutch - 11.45
A. Nesta - 50M - Cutch - 12:08
R. Ayala - 15M - VivaJ - 12:35
R. Carvalho - 15m - Paceme - 12:38
J. Terry - 30m - paceme - 13.28
L.Thuram - 40M - Cutch - 13:40
Cafu - 40M - Fergus' son - 13:53
T. Silva - 37M - Edgar - 14:13
R. Carlos - 40 - Gandalf - 14.29
Lahm - 40m - kps - 15.18
Lucio - 15m - Gandalf - 15.21
R.Ferdinand - 35M - VivaJ - 17:40
N.Vidic - 20M - VivaJ - 17:40
Abidal- 20m - Stobzilla - 17:53
Goalkeepers
M. Neuer - 10M - Antohan - 08:00
E. Van der Sar - 15M - VivaJ - 09.40
P. Cech - 10M - kps88 - 11.00
G. Buffon - 15M -Cutch - 12.08
I. Casillas - 15m - Gandalf- 14:24
@MJJ Ronaldinho and enrique