Transfer Muppet Draft 1st Semi Final - MJJ vs Annahnomoss

[MJJ]

This isn't the case though. When Henry and Messi were the wide options they basically had two very narrow players and many consider it to be among the best they performed with plenty of movement from the three and more involved wide men. Villa also played this role, but was even more narrow, almost a left striker.

This was how bayern defended against barca and the same will happen here. While barca had alves and alba to stretch the play and provide crosses/overlaps you dont have that luxury. Your whole team is prefers attacking from the middle and there will be five/six players there just eliminating the passing option. If muller or messi get the ball they would have to go through a combination of keane/fabregas, stam/nesta, cole/zanetti just to be through on goal while all I need is a ball over the top to exploit your high line and be one on one with valdes. Given the quality and sheer pace of my attackers, I will count of them to win the game for me.

Abidal wont add anything to the attack and while lahm is a great fullback he isnt alves. You need a plan B which you dont have. In that game, martinez shackled iniesta, forcing xavi to drop deeper and deeper. Keane is on a whole another level and him sitting in front of the defense will add a lot of solidity. The defensive trio of stam-nesta and keane is almost unbeatable. I also have two of the best defensive fullbacks ever to play the game to be more narrow as your attack wont have a lot of width. Add my players are physically going to bully yours through out the match, expect a lot of bruises and I dont expect the pressing/stamina of your team to last through out the match.

@harms

 

[Annahnomoss]

That has nothing to do with this game. That is Barcelona after Guardiola left at the end of 2012, and is far from their prime. I can bring up United losing 2-0 and 3-1 in the finals, but that isn't the team I am playing against here.

You aren't playing against the Barcelona who took a clear spiral down and became a shadow of their former selves. You are playing the peak version of them, and a strengthened one.

Barcelona in their peak combined a high possession with attempting to win the ball back within 6 seconds. Every time I do win the ball back your defense is completely unorganized and I will have Messi countering against you after winning the ball back high up the pitch. This was an equally crucial part to Barcelona creating chances as the possession part of it, every successful high press has a good chance to lead to something dangerous and the high press works over and over throughout a game.

The slow possession team of 2012-14 is not comparable to Barcelona at their absolute peak. It had an aging Xavi, a non existent press compared to before and as you see in that formation a terrible defense.

 

[MJJ]

That has nothing to do with this game. That is Barcelona after Guardiola left at the end of 2012, and is far from their prime. I can bring up United losing 2-0 and 3-1 in the finals, but that isn't the team I am playing against here.

You aren't playing against the Barcelona who took a clear spiral down and became a shadow of their former selves. You are playing the peak version of them, and a strengthened one.

Barcelona in their peak combined a high possession with attempting to win the ball back within 6 seconds. Every time I do win the ball back your defense is completely unorganized and I will have Messi countering against you after winning the ball back high up the pitch.

The slow possession team of 2012-14 is not comparable to Barcelona at their absolute peak. It had an aging Xavi, a non existent press compared to before and as you see in that formation a terrible defense.

My point being that you are going to attack through the middle even more than Pep's barca and like bayern vs barca the midfield is going to be packed with players. Unless you go out wide, I am struggling to see how you will create openings if i have my entire back four narrow, with keane and fabregas sitting in front of them and Rooney,henry and Giggs dropping back and making the midfield more compact.Look at the chelsea match then which were played against a peak barca, barca struggled if the midfield is compact and packed and you cant even stretch the attack by using your fullbacks like pep had the option of doing.

And what happens if I launch a high ball over your defense within those six seconds? All your players are urging forward trying to win the ball and I have henry/giggs and ronaldo racing to win the ball.

 

[Annahnomoss]

My point being that you are going to attack through the middle even more than Pep's barca and like bayern vs barca the midfield is going to be packed with players. Unless you go out wide, I am struggling to see how you will create openings if i have my entire back four narrow, with keane and fabregas sitting in front of them and Rooney,henry and Giggs dropping back and making the midfield more compact.Look at the chelsea match then which were played against a peak barca, barca struggled if the midfield is compact and packed and you cant even stretch the attack by using your fullbacks like pep had the option of doing.

And what happens if I launch a high ball over your defense within those six seconds? All your players are urging forward trying to win the ball and I have henry/giggs and ronaldo racing to win the ball.

Shame no manager thought about that, it is that simple to beat one of the best sides in history. Now I get all the "Messi can't do it a rainy day against Stoke" discussions!

I am fine with you parking the bus centrally, I have wide options who can threaten your full-backs in Silva - Abidal, where Silva is a brilliant dribbler and Muller - Lahm and more importantly Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets played against team trying to park the bus narrowly in most games they played. Their ability to unlock these defenses consistently is the reason Messi has his ridiculous goal scoring stats and Barcelona had so much success. It is the difference between a peak Barcelona who penetrated defenses to a scary consistency and the 2012-2014 Barcelona or the current Bayern.

I will create chances centrally, Fabregas won't be able to keep Silva, Messi and Iniesta from out playing him and then abusing the space no matter how tight it is. That is what they are specialized for, fast one-twos or passing triangles to force the opponents to constantly adjust their defense which opens space. Messi has the ability to find space anywhere in his false-9 role and when he receives his passes one defender has to step up or you leave him 1 vs 1 which for Messi is a great chance. (He has an incredible amount of passes per game usually showing how often he finds space).

 

[PedroMendez]

The quality of MJJ´s back four is insane, but thats just not cutting it against TikiTaka. Barca struggled when they played against 11 men behind the ball with smart counters. I just dont see the defensive coherence. I think MJJ is missing a Makélélé type of player, who offers the defensive glue for the team and can protect the back4. Annahnomoss´s team will run rampage between the two defensive lines.

 

[kps88]

Went with Annah. Don't think a midfield two can cut it in a game like this.

 

[MJJ]

Shame no manager thought about that, it is that simple to beat one of the best sides in history. Now I get all the "Messi can't do it a rainy day against Stoke" discussions!

I am fine with you parking the bus centrally, I have wide options who can threaten your full-backs in Silva - Abidal, where Silva is a brilliant dribbler and Muller - Lahm and more importantly Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets played against team trying to park the bus narrowly in most games they played. Their ability to unlock these defenses consistently is the reason Messi has his ridiculous goal scoring stats and Barcelona had so much success. It is the difference between a peak Barcelona who penetrated defenses to a scary consistency and the 2012-2014 Barcelona or the current Bayern.

I will create chances centrally, Fabregas won't be able to keep Silva, Messi and Iniesta from out playing him and then abusing the space no matter how tight it is. That is what they are specialized for, fast one-twos or passing triangles to force the opponents to constantly adjust their defense which opens space. Messi has the ability to find space anywhere in his false-9 role and when he receives his passes one defender has to step up or you leave him 1 vs 1 which for Messi is a great chance. (He has an incredible amount of passes per game usually showing how often he finds space).

If my side ever gets assembled it will be one of the best as well so it comes down to small margins. I just feel that my route to goal will be a lot easier than yours and that will matter by the end.

Silva likes to cut inside while abidal is a defensive fullback. Muller is up against zanetti and am really not sure if you want lahm to join in the attack as well seeing as he is against ronaldo. If you do go for that route it will help me even more.

And you need to make up your mind if silva is going outside or inside, if he is inside fabregas alone wont be stopping silva/messi and iniesta but it will be fabregas,cole,keane,nesta AND Stam.

 

[Moby]

I find it strange that a counter attacking system is called the kryptonite for this Barca team. Madrid were the best counter attacking side in Europe under Mourinho and got thrashed time and again against this Barca team. In those games, Barca completely suffocated Alonso and didn't allow him any time or space to start counters, which can be done here easily with closing down Fabregas.

 

[MJJ]

I find it strange that a counter attacking system is called the kryptonite for this Barca team. Madrid were the best counter attacking side in Europe under Mourinho and got thrashed time and again against this Barca team. In those games, Barca completely suffocated Alonso and didn't allow him any time or space to start counters, which can be done here easily with closing down Fabregas.

Again and again? After mourinho's first season the tide of the classico turned and barca werent that dominant anymore. This is the same mourinho who beat this great tiki-taka side 3-1 with inter.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Went with Annah. Don't think a midfield two can cut it in a game like this.

Cheers mate, if I was a voter it would be the main question mark as well. Especially since Rooney proved incapable to provide the midfield support needed when these two teams faced in the same formations. One of my least liked CL finals ever "Barcelona outplayed Manchester United, controlling 68% of possession and having 22 attempts on goal compared to United's 4".

I would have Rio-Vidic-Evra ahead of what MJJ currently has and they still conceded so many chances, he is basically playing Vidic with Vidic here and Ferdinand was important to get out of the press and find the wingers/forwards. Adding Keane over Giggs is a big upgrade and means less chances but Fabregas isnt much of an upgrade on Carrick who played that final. I'd say Fabregas cross-field passes is worse than Carricks, so Carrick would probably be the better player to start his counter-attacks.

 

[Moby]

Again and again? After mourinho's first season the tide of the classico turned and barca werent that dominant anymore. This is the same mourinho who beat this great tiki-taka side 3-1 with inter.

I don't see the similarity between that Inter and your team. They put 6-7 guys behind the ball at all times and even then players like Eto'o worked their ass off when off the ball. You have gone for a way too attacking side and there will be a lot more space than sides like Inter allowed for Barca to exploit. They effectivelyt parked the bus. Most importantly you need Fabregas to do the defensive work AND also be available to play the outball to start counters and I just don't see that happening against the mad dog pressing Barca will apply.

If anything this game is more similar to our 2-0 loss in Rome. We had a watertight defense that had set all records that season with Ronaldo and Rooney set up to counter, but we hardly got a sniff and they could do nothing but wait for the ball that never arrived. While they managed to find openings with sustained pressure.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Cheers mate, if I was a voter it would be the main question mark as well. Especially since Rooney proved incapable to provide the midfield support needed when these two teams faced in the same formations. One of my least liked CL finals ever "Barcelona outplayed Manchester United, controlling 68% of possession and having 22 attempts on goal compared to United's 4".

I would have Rio-Vidic-Evra ahead of what MJJ currently has and they still conceded so many chances, he is basically playing Vidic with Vidic here and Ferdinand was important to get out of the press and find the wingers/forwards. Adding Keane over Giggs is a big upgrade and means less chances but Fabregas isnt much of an upgrade on Carrick who played that final. I'd say Fabregas cross-field passes is worse than Carricks, so Carrick would probably be the better player to start his counter-attacks.

That's taking it a bit too far, I'd say. Carrick has a passiveness about him which makes him anything but ideal in any kind of high pressure match. Fabregas on song is anything but passive.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I don't see the similarity between that Inter and your team. They put 6-7 guys behind the ball at all times and even then players like Eto'o worked their ass off when off the ball. You have gone for a way too attacking side and there will be a lot more space than sides like Inter allowed for Barca to exploit. They effectivelyt parked the bus. Most importantly you need Fabregas to do the defensive work AND also be available to play the outball to start counters and I just don't see that happening against the mad dog pressing Barca will apply.

If anything this game is more similar to our 2-0 loss in Rome. We had a watertight defense that had set all records that season with Ronaldo and Rooney set up to counter, but we hardly got a sniff and they could do nothing but wait for the ball that never arrived. While they managed to find openings with sustained pressure.

What's Keano up to then? Pulled a Saipan?

 

[MJJ]

I don't see the similarity between that Inter and your team. They put 6-7 guys behind the ball at all times and even then players like Eto'o worked their ass off when off the ball. You have gone for a way too attacking side and there will be a lot more space than sides like Inter allowed for Barca to exploit. They effectivelyt parked the bus. Most importantly you need Fabregas to do the defensive work AND also be available to play the outball to start counters and I just don't see that happening against the mad dog pressing Barca will apply.

If anything this game is more similar to our 2-0 loss in Rome. We had a watertight defense that had set all records that season with Ronaldo and Rooney set up to counter, but we hardly got a sniff and they could do nothing but wait for the ball that never arrived. While they managed to find openings with sustained pressure.

I mentioned the inter side to show that barca at their peak could be beaten. Inter did it and chelsea almost did it as well. Mourinho also never really got thrashed other then his first season with real.

I have my back four, rooney,keane, fabregas,henry and giggs back waiting to win the ball so the central area is going to be packed denying annah the space needed to create chances.

Fabregas has played most of his career in a midfield two so yes he can certainly do both. He did it at arsenal with flamini,vieira,etc and can do the same here.

We didnt have a ball winner near keane's quality for that match or the speed of giggs/henry on the counter. Even then we gave a good game for the first ten minutes, with my players all being in their peak I can certainly give more of a game.

 

[MJJ]

Cheers mate, if I was a voter it would be the main question mark as well. Especially since Rooney proved incapable to provide the midfield support needed when these two teams faced in the same formations. One of my least liked CL finals ever "Barcelona outplayed Manchester United, controlling 68% of possession and having 22 attempts on goal compared to United's 4".

I would have Rio-Vidic-Evra ahead of what MJJ currently has and they still conceded so many chances, he is basically playing Vidic with Vidic here and Ferdinand was important to get out of the press and find the wingers/forwards. Adding Keane over Giggs is a big upgrade and means less chances but Fabregas isnt much of an upgrade on Carrick who played that final. I'd say Fabregas cross-field passes is worse than Carricks, so Carrick would probably be the better player to start his counter-attacks.

This is laughable. Fabregas is far superior to carrick. Nesta is also a better defender than rio, ditto with stam and vidic. Cole defensively is far superior to evra and might just be a better fullback overall.

 

[Moby]

I mentioned the inter side to show that barca at their peak could be beaten. Inter did it and chelsea almost did it as well. Mourinho also never really got thrashed other then his first season with real.

I have my back four, rooney,keane, fabregas,henry and giggs back waiting to win the ball so the central area is going to be packed denying annah the space needed to create chances.

Fabregas has played most of his career in a midfield two so yes he can certainly do both. He did it at arsenal with flamini,vieira,etc and can do the same here.

We didnt have a ball winner near keane's quality for that match or the speed of giggs/henry on the counter. Even then we gave a good game for the first ten minutes, with my players all being in their peak I can certainly give more of a game.

Inter did it with a completely different formation and tactic than yours. Find me a team that played an attacking 4-4-2 against Baraca in a big game between 08-11.

 

[Moby]

What's Keano up to then? Pulled a Saipan?

While Keane was a good passer, I wouldn't expect him to be the primary playmaker here.

 

[Annahnomoss]

This is laughable. Fabregas is far superior to carrick. Nesta is also a better defender than rio, ditto with stam and vidic. Cole defensively is far superior to evra and might just be a better fullback overall.

You are playing a United set-up which is why I wouldn't swap that proven trio.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

While Keane was a good passer, I wouldn't expect him to be the primary playmaker here.

That's true. But you don't need a Pirlo'esque passer in order to break up the play and instigate a counter attack.

 

[Moby]

That's true. But you don't need a Pirlo'esque passer in order to break up the play and instigate a counter attack.

Usually you don't but against Barca's relentless pressing you do need someone who can not only think extremely quickly but has that sort of vision and technique to play out the ball under that pressure. Alonso, who I consider superior than Fabregas for that role and someone who excelled in being a specialist at starting counters could not cope with it.

 

[Annahnomoss]

That's true. But you don't need a Pirlo'esque passer in order to break up the play and instigate a counter attack.

You do need a Ferdinand though in the defense who can find an option further up the pitch with the first touch before the press closes in and becomes effective. Stam and Nesta are not the ball-playing type, neither of them will be seen playmaking from deep to provide an easy option.

You usually receive the ball under pressure against the high press, so you need the creativity in the midfield and back-line to play your way out of the press. Stam-Nesta and Keane aren't optimal for that, Fabregas won't find space for himself unless he involves someone to free space for him.

Pirlo, Carrick and Xabi Alonso has all had difficulties using their passing range against this press with better technical midfield partners to work with.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

That's true. But you don't need a Pirlo'esque passer in order to break up the play and instigate a counter attack.

Yep, before Veron arrived we showed very little inclination to try having a primary playmaker in midfield. Scholes hadn't really evolved into a deep-lying playmaker then and in any case Nicky Butt made almost as many appearances as him. The playmaking burden was shared around the midfield, with Keane arguably doing the lion's share. Finding the wingers with quick accurate passes is second nature to him here, although dealing with the high press will obviously complicate it.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Yep, before Veron arrived we showed very little inclination to try having a primary playmaker in midfield. Scholes hadn't really evolved into a deep-lying playmaker then and in any case Nicky Butt made almost as many appearances as him. The playmaking burden was shared around the midfield, with Keane arguably doing the lion's share. Finding the wingers with quick accurate passes is second nature to him here, although dealing with the high press will obviously complicate it.

That team had ball-playing midfielders through-out and the defense as well. The burden was like you say shared albeit here it is nearly solely on Fabregas and Keane and like you say the high press means as soon as they get the ball they are very unlikely to have space.

Usually they will need to beat some player/players with great nifty passing before a long-ball on the counter can be set up. This is the time Barcelona used to either create an offside trap, or simply falling down if the press was failing. That is why Ronaldo has had very limited success against them by his standards, even if he should have been thriving playing against a high line.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

That team had ball-playing midfielders through-out and the defense as well. The burden was like you say shared albeit here it is nearly solely on Fabregas and Keane and like you say the high press means as soon as they get the ball they are very unlikely to have space.

Usually they will need to beat some player/players with great nifty passing before a long-ball on the counter can be set up. This is the time Barcelona used to either create an offside trap, or simply falling down if the press was failing. That is why Ronaldo has had very limited success against them by his standards, even if he should have been thriving playing against a high line.

Not sure about that bit: Neville-Johnsen/Berg-Stam-Irwin vs Zanetti-Nesta-Stam-Cole. Johnsen was good on the ball, Berg not so much, but I think you're underrating Nesta's abilities here. He was very comfortable in possession. Cole wasn't quite as good on the ball as Irwin but is still competent (and proven vs Barca), and Zanetti is vastly better than Neville on the ball.

EDIT: Obviously in comparison to the Utd 99 team Beckham's ability to pick the ball up in a deep position and launch something spectacular is a loss for sure in this context.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Not sure about that bit: Neville-Johnsen/Berg-Stam-Irwin vs Zanetti-Nesta-Stam-Cole. Johnsen was good on the ball, Berg not so much, but I think you're underrating Nesta's abilities here. He was very comfortable in possession. Cole wasn't quite as good on the ball as Irwin but is still competent (and proven vs Barca), and Zanetti is vastly better than Neville on the ball.

EDIT: Obviously in comparison to the Utd 99 team Beckham's ability to pick the ball up in a deep position and launch something spectacular is a loss for sure in this context.

Good points allround.

What you lose in not having Beckham there, though, is arguably more than made up for by adding a direct, penetrative threat on the right in Ronaldo. Giggs to the left, Ronaldo to the right - you can start the counter from either side with lightening pace and trickery.

Giggs in particular is also capable of lessening the playmaking burden. He can drop deeper and provide an outlet which - again - doesn't require a genius of a playmaker in the middle. Rooney too can drop deep and effectively become a third midfielder.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Not sure about that bit: Neville-Johnsen/Berg-Stam-Irwin vs Zanetti-Nesta-Stam-Cole. Johnsen was good on the ball, Berg not so much, but I think you're underrating Nesta's abilities here. He was very comfortable in possession. Cole wasn't quite as good on the ball as Irwin but is still competent (and proven vs Barca), and Zanetti is vastly better than Neville on the ball.

EDIT: Obviously in comparison to the Utd 99 team Beckham's ability to pick the ball up in a deep position and launch something spectacular is a loss for sure in this context.

Indeed, Scholes and Beckham would have been outstanding for him, brilliant passers and can nail inch accurate passes from deep.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Indeed, Scholes and Beckham would have been outstanding for him, brilliant passers and can nail inch accurate passes from deep.

Hehe - so, essentially, what you're saying is that he should have gone for the '99 team?

Fair enough. But then I'll repeat the point made above: You really should have gone for less defensively solid centrebacks!

 

[harms]

You do need a Ferdinand though in the defense who can find an option further up the pitch with the first touch before the press closes in and becomes effective. Stam and Nesta are not the ball-playing type, neither of them will be seen playmaking from deep to provide an easy option.

You usually receive the ball under pressure against the high press, so you need the creativity in the midfield and back-line to play your way out of the press. Stam-Nesta and Keane aren't optimal for that, Fabregas won't find space for himself unless he involves someone to free space for him.

Pirlo, Carrick and Xabi Alonso has all had difficulties using their passing range against this press with better technical midfield partners to work with.

Nesta was more then comfortable with the ball, you aren't giving him enough credit here.

Also, @rpitroda, here's some footage from aging Nesta against peak Messi

http://www.metacafe.com/embed/8405201/

I cannot imagine anyone better suited for that role. And with Stam to help him

 

[Annahnomoss]

Hehe - so, essentially, what you're saying is that he should have gone for the '99 team?

Fair enough. But then I'll repeat the point made above: You really should have gone for less defensively solid centrebacks!

Fair points, I think Lahm has played as a very offensive full-back too though making overlaps, runs and playmaking offensively in the pitch.

I think his current reputation is working against him, Alves is no doubt even better offensively but Lahm has shown he is capable of several roles and one of them is attacking. Abidal played for this Barcelona and is the best left back who has played the tiki-taka. He is capable of overlaps as well, less technically gifted, and more about stamina and making runs than Lahm.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Sorry Annah, I just can't get my head around that counter attacking. It's perfect.

 

[Annahnomoss]

No wrong votes mate, thanks for participating!

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Fair points, I think Lahm has played as a very offensive full-back too though making overlaps, runs and playmaking offensively in the pitch.

I think his current reputation is working against him, Alves is no doubt even better offensively but Lahm has shown he is capable of several roles and one of them is attacking. Abidal played for this Barcelona and is the best left back who has played the tiki-taka. He is capable of overlaps as well, less technically gifted, and more about stamina and making runs than Lahm.

I agree 100% and I love Lahm to bits. But you have focused very much so far on, let's say, realism: proven connections, real-life partnerships - and you've even stated explicitly that Pep is yer manager. So, if MJJ needs Rio back there - well, arguably you need Puyol then. It's not like there's any huge discrepancies here when it comes to individual quality. Rio was great in his pomp - but his counterpart here isn't David May. It's Nesta.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Nesta was more then comfortable with the ball, you aren't giving him enough credit here.

Also, @rpitroda, here's some footage from aging Nesta against peak Messi

http://www.metacafe.com/embed/8405201/

I cannot imagine anyone better suited for that role. And with Stam to help him

That was a majestic performance by an old maestro. I remember sitting there chuckling to myself. But then I have always had a special fondness for Italian defenders, going all the way back to Scirea.

 

[harms]

Okay, I tried as hard as I can to be objective, but I just can't see how Annah can outscore Ronaldo-Henry-Giggs trio.
De Gea's distribution is unfairly forgotten here too.

Went for MJJ, but I have to say that Annah made a fantastic job with his theme.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Good points allround.

What you lose in not having Beckham there, though, is arguably more than made up for by adding a direct, penetrative threat on the right in Ronaldo. Giggs to the left, Ronaldo to the right - you can start the counter from either side with lightening pace and trickery.

Giggs in particular is also capable of lessening the playmaking burden. He can drop deeper and provide an outlet which - again - doesn't require a genius of a playmaker in the middle. Rooney too can drop deep and effectively become a third midfielder.

Like a souped up Giggs and Kanchelskis, 1993-94 style

This game really couldn't have came at a worse time for Annah after the Real-Bayern match last night. I genuinely feel bad for him here, as he's right to point out that's hardly tiki-taka at its best, but I'm having a tough time looking beyond MJJ's insanely deadly counter-attack here. Keane is ideal to build a midfield around here, as he's virtually peerless in terms of off the ball discipline. He'll close down passing lanes all day long, berate his teammates into doing the same, and has the composure to keep possession when he does get possession.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I agree 100% and I love Lahm to bits. But you have focused very much so far on, let's say, realism: proven connections, real-life partnerships - and you've even stated explicitly that Pep is yer manager. So, if MJJ needs Rio back there - well, arguably you need Puyol then. It's not like there's any huge discrepancies here when it comes to individual quality. Rio was great in his pomp - but his counterpart here isn't David May. It's Nesta.

Nesta and Ferdinand are different types. Both Stam and Nesta are more "stoppers" than they are ball-playing defenders like Ferdinand. For stoppers they have good ability on the ball, like Cannavaro, but only Thiago Silva of the centre backs in this game is a primarily ball-playing one.

Nesta and Stam are both great defenders individually no doubt, absolute top ones. So is Vidic, but playing him with Stam or Nesta would be an equally lacking CB pairing.

They played together and defensively they are a notch ahead my pair who never played together, but in a match-up where it is absolutely crucial with a ball playing defender of top quality their weakness is more exposed than in a regular game from those days where nobody would press them like here.

My point is more about them not being ideal at handling the high press, their individual quality is rock solid defensively. So when I have the ball there is nothing wrong with them, when I lose the ball he would ideally have had a ball playing one there to not get stressed and pressed in to making poor passes. Even Vidic and Ferdinand showed they were incapable of dealing with the Barcelona press successfully.

They were often forced to make long balls to nowhere, or play a pass which put someone else in an exposed situation which would lead to either the press regaining the ball or at least a very risky situation. If Ferdinand and Vidic just about kept it together, a step down in ball playing quality will further decrease the chances of handling it successfully.

 

[MJJ]

You are playing a United set-up which is why I wouldn't swap that proven trio.

In that case you should have went for pique and puyol. Proven trio and all.

Inter did it with a completely different formation and tactic than yours. Find me a team that played an attacking 4-4-2 against Baraca in a big game between 08-11.

Attacking 4-4-2? I have both my midfielders sitting deep and the strikers dropping back to eliminate space in my half. Its as defensive as you can get without completely parking the bus.

 

[Moby]

In that case you should have went for pique and puyol. Proven trio and all.


Attacking 4-4-2? I have both my midfielders sitting deep and the strikers dropping back to eliminate space in my half. Its as defensive as you can get without completely parking the bus.

Which is what Inter did to stop them.

 

[MJJ]

Which is what Inter did to stop them.

And what about the number of times mourinho beat them with real?, if instead of having an aging attack, he had players suited for a lighting fast counter attack style of football he would have beaten them as well as bayern proved later on. The fact of the matter is Annah is only going to attack through the middle which will be packed with bodies while I will attack down the wings where there will be more room to maneuver.

And Pep's barca at their peak never really faced another great side.

 

[PedroMendez]

I still dont understand the "park the bus/defensive" part of MJJ´s lineup. Considering their position non of your 6 midfielder/attacking players is really defensive minded. Keane and Cesc are great central midfielders and for central midfielders they have great defensive abilities, but but they arent defensive midfielder who are excelling in stabilizing the defense. Both played in teams, that played way more offensive and Barca almost never struggled against those teams. Rooney is worldclass as second striker/central forward, but he seems to be the wrong player if you want to add stability in midfield. Henry and Ronaldo are also both very offensive minded.
MJJ´s team has little to do with the destructive and puristic approach that Mourinho fancied.