Transfer fantasy draft

Annahnomoss said:
It is just a one point difference between a defender and a midfielder so if one truly wants to use a libero then they are worth as much for a team as a midfielder. If you only want to play a libero if he costs 2 points, then you probably don't really want to play a libero at all just to earn a TP point.
Click to expand...
I can live with the decision, I really think you should add it to the op though, because it's not that obvious.
 
Strikers/Finishers:

Raúl - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
Sánchez - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
RVN - 15m - VivaJ - 04:44
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 70m - Aldo - 05:03
(TP)Lionel Messi - 65m - NoPace -06:08
(TP)Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05

Wingers/Side midfielders:
Robert Pires - 15m - Isotope - 19:50
Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01

Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:

Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 15m - Balu/Pedro - 09:22

Playmakers:

Seba Verón - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07
Rivera-10m-MJJ-13:07

Defensive/Central midfielders:

(TP) Pirlo - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Ballack - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
Effenberg - 20m - Aldo - 06.40
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15 @@VivaJanuzaj

Full-backs:

Breigel - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
Irwin - 10m - VivaCrappy - 07.23
Lizarazu - 10m - Balu/Pedro - 09:22
Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02


Centre-backs:

Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Hierro - 20m - Annah - 12:35
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00 @Balu
 
Fair enough :). I still might come back for him later.
 
Balu said:
It's not a bonus, quite the opposite. I would have never bid 35m for him, if his Ballon d'Or winning role as a libero doesn't count as a defender, even though he's listed as a top centerback in your op with no word mentioned that the liberos from the centerback list are all of a sudden midfielders :lol:.
Click to expand...

My tuppence on this is that if you want to play Sammer in his famous role, you have to line up in a certain way - which restricts what you can do in other areas. To put it in extreme terms you can't exploit Sammer's free roaming qualities if you stick him next to someone in a straight four at the back - so whenever you use him he will part of a certain defensive set-up, and as such - in my book - a defender: a free roaming one, yes, but one who will limit your options further up the pitch. You can't sport Sammer AND a pair of funky wingers, for instance. Well, you can - but not in any sort of orthodox formation.

So, yeah - I should say he is a defender in his grand role, and as such shouldn't "cost" more TP points than yer Baresis and yer Maldinis.

But I stress that this is my tuppence - it's up to Annah to rule on it.

It does strike me as an unnecessarily complicated system, though - if the valuation of a given TP depends on the kind of match he features in.

On a similar note, let's take Scholes: You can use the early Scholes as an AM - a goal scoring, getting-into-the-box, free roamer. Or you can use the later Scholes as a CM - a flow controlling, pinpoint passing orchestrator. Is the latter a six pointer and the former a three pointer? That's how I would read it. The latter is, all things said and done, a more instrumental player.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
It does strike me as an unnecessarily complicated system, though - if the valuation of a given TP depends on the kind of match he features in.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's the part that made no sense to me either. If a libero in general is 3 TP points, I'm good with it (would have loved to know it earlier, but can't complain now that Annah outbid me on him). But if a 532 playing against a 442 means he's a 2TP libero, and a 532 playing against a 4231 means he's a 3TP libero, I'm lost :lol:.
 
Balu said:
Yeah, that's the part that made no sense to me either. If a libero in general is 3 TP points, I'm good with it (would have loved to know it earlier, but can't complain now that Annah outbid me on him). But if a 532 playing against a 442 means he's a 2TP libero, and a 532 playing against a 4231 means he's a 3TP libero, I'm lost :lol:.
Click to expand...

Yes - I think this needs some clearing up. Not that there are many TP liberos available in this draft - but still. You can in theory play a 5-3-2 without a libero - that is, without a libero in Sammer's sense.
 
Cutch said:
When i seen that i was thinking how the hell did i miss that one :lol:. Then i was nearly straight in with a raise, but thought i'd better check first
Click to expand...

Haha I know...was wondering why did no one bid for him. I actually got his playing career date and DOB mixed up.
 
Strikers/Finishers:

Raúl - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
Sánchez - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
RVN - 15m - VivaJ - 04:44
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 70m - Aldo - 05:03
(TP)Lionel Messi - 65m - NoPace -06:08
(TP)Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
Van Basten(TP)-10m-MJJ-14:40
Wingers/Side midfielders:
Robert Pires - 15m - Isotope - 19:50
Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01
Evani-10m-MJJ-14:40

Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:

Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 15m - Balu/Pedro - 09:22

Playmakers:

Seba Verón - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07
Rivera-10m-MJJ-13:07

Defensive/Central midfielders:

(TP) Pirlo - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Ballack - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
Effenberg - 20m - Aldo - 06.40
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15 @@VivaJanuzaj

Full-backs:

Breigel - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
Irwin - 10m - VivaCrappy - 07.23
Lizarazu - 10m - Balu/Pedro - 09:22
Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02


Centre-backs:

Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Hierro - 20m - Annah - 12:35
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
 
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Strikers/Finishers:

Raúl - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
Sánchez - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
RVN - 15m - VivaJ - 04:44
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 70m - Aldo - 05:03
(TP)Lionel Messi - 65m - NoPace -06:08
(TP)Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
Van Basten(TP)-10m-MJJ-14:40

Wingers/Side midfielders:
Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01

Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:

Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 15m - Balu/Pedro - 09:22

Playmakers:

Seba Verón - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07
Rivera-10m-MJJ-13:07

Defensive/Central midfielders:

(TP) Pirlo - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
Effenberg - 20m - Aldo - 06.40
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15 @@VivaJanuzaj
Ballack - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Edgar Davids - 10m - Isotope - 14:50

Full-backs:

Breigel - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
Irwin - 10m - VivaCrappy - 07.23
Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
Lizarazu - 15m - Isotope - 14:50


Centre-backs:

Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
(TP) Hierro - 25m - Isotope - 14:50

@Aldo Ballack
@Balu @@PedroMendez Lizarazu
@Annahnomoss Hierro
 
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Strikers/Finishers:

Raúl - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
Sánchez - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
RVN - 15m - VivaJ - 04:44
(TP) Lionel Messi - 65m - NoPace -06:08
(TP) Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
(TP) Van Basten - 10m - MJJ - 14:40
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 75m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30 @Aldo

Wingers/Side midfielders:

Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01


Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:

Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30 @Balu


Playmakers:

Seba Verón - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07


Defensive/Central midfielders:

(TP) Pirlo - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15 @@VivaJanuzaj
Ballack - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Edgar Davids - 10m - Isotope - 14:50
Effenberg - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30 @Aldo


Full-backs:

Irwin - 10m - VivaCrappy - 07.23
Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
Lizarazu - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
Breigel - 15m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30 @Aldo


Centre-backs:

Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
(TP) Hierro - 25m - Isotope - 14:50
 
Last edited:
Finally. Thought I'm stuck with Ronaldinho :lol:.
 
Strikers/Finishers:

Raúl - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
Sánchez - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
RVN - 15m - VivaJ - 04:44
(TP) Lionel Messi - 65m - NoPace -06:08
(TP) Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
(TP) Van Basten - 10m - MJJ - 14:40
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 75m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30

Wingers/Side midfielders:

Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01


Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:

Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Playmakers:

Seba Verón - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07


Defensive/Central midfielders:

(TP) Pirlo - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15
Ballack - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Edgar Davids - 10m - Isotope - 14:50
Effenberg - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Full-backs:

Irwin - 10m - VivaCrappy - 07.23
Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
Breigel - 15m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30
Lizarazu - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:48


Centre-backs:

Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
(TP) Hierro - 25m - Isotope - 14:50

@Isotope (Lizarazu)
 
Strikers/Finishers:

Raúl - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
Sánchez - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
RVN - 15m - VivaJ - 04:44
(TP) Lionel Messi - 65m - NoPace -06:08
(TP) Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
(TP) Van Basten - 10m - MJJ - 14:40
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 85m - Aldo - 15:53

Wingers/Side midfielders:

Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01


Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:

Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Playmakers:

Seba Verón - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07


Defensive/Central midfielders:

(TP) Pirlo - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15
Ballack - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Edgar Davids - 10m - Isotope - 14:50
Effenberg - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Full-backs:

Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
Breigel - 15m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30
Lizarazu - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:48
Irwin - 15m - Aldo - 15:53


Centre-backs:

Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
(TP) Hierro - 25m - Isotope - 14:50

@Sammer's Hammer
@VivaJanuzaj
 
Strikers/Finishers:

Raúl - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
Sánchez - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
RVN - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:57
(TP) Lionel Messi - 65m - NoPace -06:08
(TP) Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
(TP) Van Basten - 10m - MJJ - 14:40
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 85m - Aldo - 15:53

Wingers/Side midfielders:

Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01


Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:

Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Playmakers:

Seba Verón - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07


Defensive/Central midfielders:

(TP) Pirlo - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15
Ballack - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Edgar Davids - 10m - Isotope - 14:50
Effenberg - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Full-backs:

Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
Briegel - 15m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30
Lizarazu - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:48
Irwin - 15m - Aldo - 15:53


Centre-backs:

Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
(TP) Hierro - 25m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Bergomi - 10m - Balu/Pedro 15:56

@VivaJanuzaj (RvN)
 
Strikers/Finishers:

Raúl - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
Sánchez - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
RVN - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:57
(TP) Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
(TP) Van Basten - 10m - MJJ - 14:40
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 85m - Aldo - 15:53
(TP) Lionel Messi - 70m - Sammer's Hammer - 16:00 @NoPace

Wingers/Side midfielders:

Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01


Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:

Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Playmakers:

Seba Verón - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07


Defensive/Central midfielders:

(TP) Pirlo - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15
Ballack - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Edgar Davids - 10m - Isotope - 14:50
Effenberg - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Full-backs:

Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
Briegel - 15m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30
Lizarazu - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:48
Irwin - 15m - Aldo - 15:53


Centre-backs:

Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
(TP) Hierro - 25m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Bergomi - 10m - Balu/Pedro 15:56
 
Strikers/Finishers:

Raúl - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
Sánchez - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
(TP) Van Basten - 10m - MJJ - 14:40
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 85m - Aldo - 15:53
RVN - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:57
(TP) Lionel Messi - 70m - Sammer's Hammer - 16:00

Wingers/Side midfielders:

Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01


Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:

Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Playmakers:

Seba Verón - 15m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07


Defensive/Central midfielders:

(TP) Pirlo - 20m - Pippa - 02:22
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15
Ballack - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Edgar Davids - 10m - Isotope - 14:50
Effenberg - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Full-backs:

Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
Briegel - 15m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30
Lizarazu - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:48
Irwin - 15m - Aldo - 15:53


Centre-backs:

Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
(TP) Hierro - 25m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Bergomi - 10m - Balu/Pedro 15:56
 
Balu said:
Sorry, but that's totally stupid. He's playing the exact same role both times, just adapts to the opponent. Either the libero/sweeper always counts 3 TP points as a free roaming defender, or he always counts 2 TP points. It really shouldn't be dependent on the formation of the opponent, that's a fecking nightmare to plan then.
Click to expand...

:lol: Exactly what I thought, has draft meltdown written all over it. A libero is quite clearly a defender IMO.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
My tuppence on this is that if you want to play Sammer in his famous role, you have to line up in a certain way - which restricts what you can do in other areas. To put it in extreme terms you can't exploit Sammer's free roaming qualities if you stick him next to someone in a straight four at the back - so whenever you use him he will part of a certain defensive set-up, and as such - in my book - a defender: a free roaming one, yes, but one who will limit your options further up the pitch. You can't sport Sammer AND a pair of funky wingers, for instance. Well, you can - but not in any sort of orthodox formation.

So, yeah - I should say he is a defender in his grand role, and as such shouldn't "cost" more TP points than yer Baresis and yer Maldinis.

But I stress that this is my tuppence - it's up to Annah to rule on it.

It does strike me as an unnecessarily complicated system, though - if the valuation of a given TP depends on the kind of match he features in.

On a similar note, let's take Scholes: You can use the early Scholes as an AM - a goal scoring, getting-into-the-box, free roamer. Or you can use the later Scholes as a CM - a flow controlling, pinpoint passing orchestrator. Is the latter a six pointer and the former a three pointer? That's how I would read it. The latter is, all things said and done, a more instrumental player.
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Er...yeah - I forgot to post the conclusion to that reasoning, or lack thereof. Had to down a couple of ales to celebrate.

Not the appointment. But Robbo.

Anyway - the point is that the early Scholes would be a different sort of player to the extent that you could simply say: early Scholes = for all intents and purposes an AM. Late Scholes = for all intents and purposes a CM, and a playmaking, orchestrating CM at that. Two roles so different that you would naturally place them in different categories. A libero, however, is some sort of central defender. He isn't a midfielder. It's just that a very slender amount of central defenders over the years have had offensive qualities to the extent that they have been able to make a considerable offensive impact from their position, to the extent that this part of their game would naturally make them TPs in this context. You can practically count these players on one hand - so to say they constitute a category is a bit of a stretch.

In short: a libero is a (central) defender. The number of possible liberos who can win a match for you on his own is incredibly slender. So, for my money any libero should be considered a CB in this context - and be worth 2 points.

I can appreciate the reasoning behind considering a player like Sammer something beyond a defender when he operates in his grand role - certainly. But the fact that his kind is so rare makes it unnatural to consider the role itself as being significantly different from that of a CB - in terms of TP points.

And then there's the possibility of endless discussions regarding precisely what type of role he plays - all based on an individual opponent. It could turn into pure parody.

Alright - it's up to Annah. I'm sure we'll all respect the rules no matter what. But since the point came up at this early stage, I'm adding my tuppence, as said.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
And then there's the possibility of endless discussions regarding precisely what type of role he plays - all based on an individual opponent. It could turn into pure parody.
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Exactly, far easier to say he is a defender (which he quite obviously is) and let the bidding reflect his true worth. What you sure don't want is assign 2 or 3 points subject to how much he will defend or attack in a given game.

Surprised at some of the glaring omissions so far. Not necessarily big vote winners but some really cracking players being completely overlooked in a format which should be ideal for them.
 
Still - if I understand Annah's comments right here, the TP points follows the player regardless. So, if Gullit is a six pointer as an AM, he's still a six pointer as a CM. You get your TP points based on a) where you play and b) how good you are in that position. If someone wants to use you in a different position, then fair fecks to them, but your points remain the same - because it would be far too easy to exploit this possible loophole: "Yes, he is still the best player on the pitch but for me he's not a playmaker, he's something else, and therefore he isn't worth six points."

The same applies to Scholes - or anyone else. If I bizarrely decide to use Cabrini up front, or Ronaldo in goal, they'll still be worth...eight points. That's how I read it, anyway - and a different understanding would seemingly involve interpretation of precisely what role X plays in a particular match, which is somewhat hopeless, surely. Is he really a playmaker - or does he leave that to Y in this particular match? And so forth.

The only thing so far which might be a point of contention is precisely this libero thing. Because, seemingly, there is a degree of interpretation involved there.
 
antohan said:
Exactly, far easier to say he is a defender (which he quite obviously is) and let the bidding reflect his true worth. What you sure don't want is assign 2 or 3 points subject to how much he will defend or attack in a given game.

Surprised at some of the glaring omissions so far. Not necessarily big vote winners but some really cracking players being completely overlooked in a format which should be ideal for them.
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I get where Annah is coming from though. It's just fecking complicated. But in the end, it looks like, he bought Sammer himself, so we can't complain.
 
Strikers/Finishers:
(TP) Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
(TP) Van Basten - 10m - MJJ - 14:40
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 85m - Aldo - 15:53
RVN - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:57
(TP) Lionel Messi - 70m - Sammer's Hammer - 16:00

Wingers/Side midfielders:
Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01
Beckham - 10m - Annah - 13:30


Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:
Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Playmakers:
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07


Defensive/Central midfielders:
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15
Seedorf - 10m - Annah - 13:30
Ballack - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Edgar Davids - 10m - Isotope - 14:50
Effenberg - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Full-backs:
Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
Briegel - 15m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30
Lizarazu - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:48
Irwin - 15m - Aldo - 15:53


Centre-backs:
Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
(TP) Hierro - 25m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Bergomi - 10m - Balu/Pedro 15:56


Adding Annah's earlier requested bids for Seedorf and Beckham @Annahnomoss

Removed Pippa's completed bids.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Still - if I understand Annah's comments right here, the TP points follows the player regardless. So, if Gullit is a six pointer as an AM, he's still a six pointer as a CM. You get your TP points based on a) where you play and b) how good you are in that position. If someone wants to use you in a different position, then fair fecks to them, but your points remain the same - because it would be far too easy to exploit this possible loophole: "Yes, he is still the best player on the pitch but for me he's not a playmaker, he's something else, and therefore he isn't worth six points."

The same applies to Scholes - or anyone else. If I bizarrely decide to use Cabrini up front, or Ronaldo in goal, they'll still be worth...eight points. That's how I read it, anyway - and a different understanding would seemingly involve interpretation of precisely what role X plays in a particular match, which is somewhat hopeless, surely. Is he really a playmaker - or does he leave that to Y in this particular match? And so forth.

The only thing so far which might be a point of contention is precisely this libero thing. Because, seemingly, there is a degree of interpretation involved there.
Click to expand...
Nope. If you play a topplayer as an attacking player, he counts 6, as a midfielder he counts 3 and as a defender 2. If you play Baresi as striker, he counts 6, if you play Maradona as centerback he counts 2. Therefore early Scholes is a 6 TP points AM, while the later Scholes is a 3 TP points CM. That's what makes it all so complicated. If I play Sammer - Kohler as a centerback pair in a back 4, Sammer is back to 2 TP.
 
Strikers/Finishers:
(TP) Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
(TP) Van Basten - 10m - MJJ - 14:40
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 85m - Aldo - 15:53
RVN - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:57
(TP) Lionel Messi - 70m - Sammer's Hammer - 16:00

Wingers/Side midfielders:
Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01
Beckham - 10m - Annah - 13:30


Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:
Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Playmakers:
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 30m Rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07


Defensive/Central midfielders:
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15
Seedorf - 10m - Annah - 13:30
Ballack - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Edgar Davids - 10m - Isotope - 14:50
Effenberg - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Full-backs:
Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
Briegel - 15m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30
Lizarazu - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:48
Irwin - 15m - Aldo - 15:53
Ashley Cole - 15m - Isotope - 17:20
Jorginho - 15m - Isotope - 17:20



Centre-backs:
Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
(TP) Hierro - 25m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Bergomi - 10m - Balu/Pedro 15:56
 
Strikers/Finishers:
(TP) Hristo Stoichkov - 20m - Stobzilla - 09:05
(TP) Baggio - 10m - Cutch - 10:05
(TP) Van Basten - 10m - MJJ - 14:40
(TP) Cristiano Ronaldo - 85m - Aldo - 15:53
RVN - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:57
(TP) Lionel Messi - 70m - Sammer's Hammer - 16:00

Wingers/Side midfielders:
Pierre Littbarski - 10m Chesterlestreet 13:01
Beckham - 10m - Annah - 13:30
Evani-10m-MJJ-14:40


Trequartistas/Attacking midfielders:
Zibi Boniek - 50m - VivaJ - 04:22
(TP) Rivaldo - 25m - Isotope 06:22
(TP) Ronaldinho - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Playmakers:
(TP) Michael Laudrup - 30m - rpitroda 06:52
(TP) Gheorghe Hagi - 25m - Stobzilla 09:07
(TP) Zinedine Zidane - 35m - Balu/Pedro 17:23

Defensive/Central midfielders:
(TP) Matthäus - 70m - Viva J- 04:22
Guardiola - 10m - Aldo - 05.03
(TP) Vieira - 30m rpitroda - 06:52
Mendieta - 10m - Cutch - 12:22
(TP) Scholes - 40m - Annah - 13:15
Seedorf - 10m - Annah - 13:30
Ballack - 15m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Edgar Davids - 10m - Isotope - 14:50
Effenberg - 25m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30


Full-backs:
Panucci - 10m - Cutch - 09:53
(TP) Brehme - 10M - VivaCrappy - 11:35
(TP) Thuram - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Roberto Carlos - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
(TP) Cafu - 30m - Walkin - 12.02
Briegel - 15m - Sammer's Hammer - 15:30
Lizarazu - 20m - Balu/Pedro - 15:48
Irwin - 15m - Aldo - 15:53


Centre-backs:
Ferrara - 15m - Isotope - 05:00
Paolo Montero - Aldo - 10m - 06.08
Silva - 30m - rpitroda - 06:52
(TP) Kohler - 25m - Balu/Pedro - 11:41
(TP) Sammer - 40m - Annah - 14:00
(TP) Hierro - 25m - Isotope - 14:50
(TP) Bergomi - 10m - Balu/Pedro 15:56

@rpitroda (Zidane)
 
Balu said:
I get where Annah is coming from though. It's just fecking complicated. But in the end, it looks like, he bought Sammer himself, so we can't complain.
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Until someone facing Sammer argues he is a three pointer. I can see the point with Desailly being in defence or midfield, but changing Sammer's points while playing the exact same role subject to how the game supposedly plays out is a recipe for meltdown. Make it two or three, but stick to one.
 
The logic behind why a libero would count as a midfielder rather than a defender is that it is a role which has used a lot lately. So if one point of a difference, means we see less "easy inclusions" of libero's and more well thought-out systems then that is a good direction to take.

Basically less of the "My player is intelligent enough to know when to be a CB and when to be a DM so he counts as a DM when that is needed and a CB when that is needed".

Every DM who can play CB has suddenly become highlighted as capable of doing this. If your libero isn't worth 3 points, which is one little point more than a CB - then you don't really want to play him anyhow.

Wing-backs would follow this principle as well if it wasn't because they are never rated as a sole source for width.
 
antohan said:
Until someone facing Sammer argues he is a three pointer. I can see the point with Desailly being in defence or midfield, but changing Sammer's points while playing the exact same role subject to how the game supposedly plays out is a recipe for meltdown. Make it two or three, but stick to one.
Click to expand...

We will keep it to all liberos are 3 pointers, as per updated in the OP as well since some hours ago.
 
Balu said:
Nope. If you play a topplayer as an attacking player, he counts 6, as a midfielder he counts 3 and as a defender 2. If you play Baresi as striker, he counts 6, if you play Maradona as centerback he counts 2. Therefore early Scholes is a 6 TP points AM, while the later Scholes is a 3 TP points CM.
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Hm. Alright. But..

In most cases that won't be a problem at all. Because you won't benefit from playing Baresi up front. But we have several players here whose roles may be far less clear cut.

And I would also argue that Scholes as a pure AM is a poorer player than Scholes as a CM - and less likely to decide the match in your favour. Given the context, I mean. Because in all likelihood you'll have another alternative for that pure AM role who is better than Scholes at it - not least when we progress through the tournament and managers get to pick and choose from a selection of historically great players.
 
antohan said:
Until someone facing Sammer argues he is a three pointer. I can see the point with Desailly being in defence or midfield, but changing Sammer's points while playing the exact same role subject to how the game supposedly plays out is a recipe for meltdown. Make it two or three, but stick to one.
Click to expand...
That's what I said and Annah basically made the decision that it's 3 now for liberos, unless he's played as a clear cut centerback, but no one will pay that much money for him in that position, so it doesn't really matter.
 
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